Diablo® III

How It Went Terribly Wrong, Because They Listened To Us

Update: The core concept of this post has been fully addressed by Blizzard in the Itemization developer's blog, it seems like our incredible quantity of feedback has given the developers a clear perspective as to what is needed to heal this amazing game. Good job everyone who gave feedback and supported this post!

    A summary of this post so far... (tl;dr)

In retrospect, we essentially revisited the updates that occurred and tried to coordinate exactly the root of what was causing the game to destablize and fragmentize.

Though, this post is headed with the idea that they are making mistakes in their game decisions partially due to listening to us, what I really mean is that, they listened to the wrong crowd, or they misunderstood what we were truly asking for, the original experience some of us may still remember.

And now that these changes have been implemented, it has been clear that the main playerbase wanted something different than what was done, so I've taken my time to clearly illustrate the areas of interest I believe the majority of the players truly share:
  • We covered initially the direction or philosophy we wished to invoke in our player base, and a prime example we all agreed upon was the video shown below, showing the progression of the game we thought would be released.
  • We therefore identified that there was a philosophy of equal and a balanced progression, being able to enjoy the gameplay for its loot, which is the fundamental aspect of the reasoning to play.
  • We realized the loot system was flawed and needed a rework of how it is functional. I then also theorized that the AH is a potentially successful model, along with some extra reformation, could be beneficial, as long as the loot system is balanced.
  • After recovering from the confusion that was brought on by the initial feedback of players we established, we derived that the players would actually want a challenging, and more sophisticated environment with intractable abilities along the same depth of diversity.
  • This then explains that there should be a rebalance of the monster power system, due to the new system fluctuating the progression of the players, being more balanced, allowing then more players to be come elite player class, ideal in a perfect society.
  • Then forthcomingly, we then delve into the aspect of infinite progression as the game is now sustainable, we can now rhetorically conceptualize some form of new expansion and restructuring of the story arch or making use of it in a more memorable manner, being the final principle that is necessary in order to achieve a game that completely grasps the players soul, in sense allowing everyone a full experience and want to continue having the experience thereby a functional game that can continue its story as long as there are people there to listen and play.
  • Finally, in the last stage that being in which a game that gives purpose to the player's character. If everyone has maximized their potential and defeated the non-player element of the game, it is of course time to pit ourselves against one another. PvP is the most facinating element to all humans, in truth, the social interaction at full potential, creates the most diversely unique circumstances and instances. But to allow the story to collide with the game play, why not set two of the separate powers against one another? Players can choose to be evil and forthcome to the powers of the (what would seem appropriate) Demonic power, or the once mortal player becomes blessed as an Angelic power to defeat the opposing force.

    Where Diablo is heading...

Diablo III is doomed to lose its popularity because of several key fundamental mistakes in their overall decision-making throughout their progression to improve the game, all they have done is make it dramatically worse. While they implemented several new aspects to the game forward from Diablo II that may work well without these fundamental flaws in the new game distinctly different from the last game.

    Where Diablo was going...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvThjiE038

The video has a 50% resemblance of Diablo II, basically with buffed up graphics. The actual skills graphical effects were much more stylish and unique, like the Witch Doctor's old horrify (13:40), boss fatalities (18:00), sacrifice explosion (13:10), real bloom (10:26), unique game mechanics like the Witch Doctor giving his pets the locust cloud (12:32), and a demonstration of a balanced loot system: the boss took what seemed like 5 minutes to kill because of the action-packed fight, the boss ripping the barbarian's head off (if they could have made the knock-back animation look real with temporary ragdoll physics that would've been even more insane, lol), and it drops just one blue item (18:30).

And on top of that, the Barbarian and Witch Doctor's equipment at whatever level they were at, already looked much more detailed and powerful than the maximum level armor we have now... how did the gear's graphics get downgraded to the way it is now?

If they made all the fixes and balances to the game now, but had similar graphics to back then, as well as balanced drop rates, this game would probably be the most popular RPG game right now, hands down.

If you watched that video, you will notice the comments illustrated how much more they were looking forward to that version's graphics than it actually turned out.

    Tipping the drop table in the wrong direction

Kids will be kids, everyone complains they don't get enough drops. But just because of this they don't necessarily know the solution. Many of them suggested that they increased the drop rate, more drops! But the knowledgeable people that understand the true way to make a game work would know that the people that were disappointed actually meant more better drops... this idea is properly illustrated with a correlated dot graph of item usability vs. value progression (http://i46.tinypic.com/21aygiq.jpg) in topic discussed below.

And since the new Diablo Developers have attained the new ability to listen to the community, overwhelming support from the community drove the developers to take a step they did not even ask where could lead. Clearly, the developers at Blizzard North, who created Diablo II, maximized their success without support from the community, but rather, creating the perfect community by using the correct outlook as to how to bring players together to enjoy a game that is balanced.

If you were to ask any ordinary player if they would rather have a treasure chest full of fool's gold or a chest of mainly good quality goods that work decent, but a couple of significantly 'unique' and 'special' items (magical), the choice is more obvious. Back in the old Diablo days, magical items were worthy already, while legendaries were considered godly. This created a balanced and enjoyable system where players were pleased constantly, but sometimes struck with immense joy by finding something special.

    Imbalance of roll-able stats creating elite items, devaluing all else

After discussing how there are too many useless drops, I want to explain how the way items roll and the types of rolls they have affect the fact that nearly every item is useless except for a select few, the elites.

Referring back to Diablo II, we had a more effective system of budgeting items. This created a balanced progression of an item's quality. This intelligent algorithm created items that actually made sense to better boost a player's ability. Thinking about it realistically, if a weapon maker were to create a worthy weapon they would want features to it that made it sharper and more powerful. The system should imitate this, creating items gradually more and more useful.

If you were to correlated dot graph of item usability vs. value progression of Diablo II with III, I suspect you would probably see the value of the items plateau at the highest value, while there isn't progression leading up to it, everything else is on the bottom cause they are useless. While the old system would generate a balanced curve up to the elite items, allowing players to actively upgrade their gear one drop after another, rather than relying on identifying hundreds if not thousands of 100% useless items, then finding one that made them a billionaire*.

Example graph
http://i46.tinypic.com/21aygiq.jpg

*This game isn't a lottery, it's a game. You're supposed to have fun all the way to the top, not grind like a slave until you find one good "opportunity".

    Creating rolls that make the item somewhat useful

Another key factor to the suppression of this game is the completely mindless RNG that is creating the drops. Yes, we want RNG, but we want RNG to work in a way that benefits us to a degree.

The RNG could be set as the determinant factor that makes it roll a combo of useful rolls, and the game will understand what a useful roll is in combination with another one. Also, being able to eliminate as many useless affixes and at least make all of them somewhat worthy, and especially more worthy in conjunction with another.

This is similar to the budgeting system like Diablo II, they could always just use Diablo II's system, but this system I believe would sustain as well as it yields results congruent with the other system.

Essentially, you would have a chance to roll a combo of stats that work with each other. Like say a weapon is named for its life leeching ability, then it would have life steal along with bleed and even with life on hit.

Which brings a point of why they have this unique naming system back in the game before this, the names represented properly the actual potential of the item, the only difference is the scale of how good it is. Nearly every item should be at least somewhat useful or make sense, instead of just a complete mix of randomness, causing 90% of items to be complete trash.

The amount of times it can combo should be directly based off the type of item:
  • White being 1 type only
  • Magic being 2-3
  • Rare being 3-5
  • Legendary being 4-8

    In-House Auction Chat eliminates flippers/snipers/scammers

Currently, the Auction House is still an experiment in progress, it has shown both signs of success and failure. The main aspect of failure comes with the large scale of useless goods coming from the loot table, however, there are many fundamental flaws in this system which many players that are knowledgeable can take advantage of the new players.

The system is disjointed, before the Auction House, you had to chat in-game with players and barter for items you wanted. But with the chat system a separate thing to the Auction House window, it disintegrates the personal interaction between the buyer and the seller, which allows for potential miscommunication, the key to scamming or an imbalanced trade forum.

If players were given a combined ability to chat with players that are also using the Auction House interface, they can price check, look for items, advertise their offers on the Auction House with more ease and essentially add a healthy dose of player interaction through playing the Auction House. This is the next step I believe they need to take in order to maximize the Auction House's potential, also patching up points that players can take advantage of, creating a balanced system.

This feature eliminates those points, if no player posted an item for the wrong price and there was a virtual environment for players to properly investigate their item of interest whether it be their item or one they want, snipers and flippers would generally not exist because everything is sold at a fair price.

Note that all of these tools are available to us within the Auction House to be perfectly safe and never be taken advantage of. But as I have stated, the information you must learn is scattered in a disjointed manner. Many of us have fallen or made our mistakes and learned from them, many of us were careful and never made mistakes, but even so, eliminating the potential for mistakes is what should eventually happen.

In fact the truth is, the system is so horribly dysfunctional, that the idea of this system has become to take advantage of new players, resulting in pretty much exactly what the player base's drop. This is due to the fact that players that are new need to learn to sell and buy items, they do it wrong initially, immediately for the experienced people to take advantage of them, essentially stealing and enslaving the general public of new players, to farm for them, win a jackpot but not even know it, and give the money to the people that know how to take advantage of the system.

Many people could make their first and only mistake, quitting right afterwards. But honestly, how could you even know you made a mistake if you never knew you sold it for the wrong price? Only until you try and resell your item and lose half of your wealth or something, or see your old item put back up for a higher price.

Many of my friends never played because they never wanted to learn how to use the Auction House. Who wants to learn to read prices and compare them? It's like going to a supermarket without any true price tags... and we're here to play a game.

With a balanced system items will be quickly influxed in and out of the system, as they are fairly priced, there can be a range for bartering and of course the point of an auction itself.

    Scams due to an imbalanced loot table creating a dysfunctional AH

Due to how the loot table has been created, it has along with it brought along a phenomenon to the players, that's leeching the life out of new and poor players alike, being all sucked to the hands of the elitest players.

Livestreamers, a prime example of a scam running outside of the AH, only possible due to the item market. They reap off the newbies that view their channel, successful Livestreamers run a scamming pyramid scheme to take their viewers gold in-game and essentially real life by asking for donations. But donations are donated and therefore can't be considered malicious, but when you trick players to benefit them, like doing fake giveaways of items that are of no worth, just cause they are Legendary, then buying unidentified Legendaries cheap from the group of inexperienced viewers who think they are establishing a personal relationship with the streamer when they are just being ripped off.

One instance of a well-known streamer buying UNID'd Echoing Furies for like 13M or something, turns around and IDs like 6 out of 20 of them being worth 100-300M. You may say, well these people sold them to make a quick cash, but they are being robbed out of their idea that they can slowly progress up the ladder if they sell it for less gold than it could be, than if they just found a completely useless Legendary if they ID'd it. Which they would actually be able to do if the loot was balanced, items semi-worthy would be at a reasonable price on the AH... but there's just a huge gap or jump from mediocre items to actually good items right now.

The system is broken to make you think that way. It's because they have found so many useless ones before they began selling them off UNID'd, when the truth is you have to ID those highest tier Legendaries because they are the single doorway for you to become a part or get closer to being elite due to the broken loot table. If it were balanced, no one would consider selling off their Legendary UNID'd, or if they did, it would certainly be worth it's price.

So, the newbs sell off their elitehood, making the one that's already elite even more elite. They spent like 260m for 20 EFs 13M ea, and made over 500M profit. By having this flaw in the system where players are being confused just by the mere fact that Legendaries are not even Legendary, players commonly make mistakes of selling off UNID, when in a working system they should never have to.

To effectively prove my point, I'll do some 'pseudo'mathematics. 6/20 EF was ~200M per, 6 players out of 20 would have become rich, but in actuality, EFs are rare so they have a huge chance of being extremely good, one of the only items you really have a reason to ID. So, if EFs are rare, how rare? Out of how many people did 20 EFs come from?

Say (x amount of) 100,000. 20/(x) (:1/5,000) is a small percentage, doesn't sound too imbalanced right? Well, now look at it like this. The elites, being the streamers or players who monopolize the UNID market, since they have enough funds from the past, presumably by slowly scamming their viewers in the past... bought 20 EFs from the (x) 100,000 that had to farm to find them.

So, they essentially took advantage of (x) 100,000 people. That's the power of raking in the benefits based on something that you wouldn't have been able to accomplish yourself. And so suddenly, they have 20 EFs, just because they had a large enough audience to sell them these.

Now, am I saying that they are stealing items? No. They paid a considerable amount of cash for those UNIDs, but regardless, like I explained above, the system is what allowed them to do this, because of the effect of useless drops has on the general playerbase. Had it been balanced, they wouldn't have had such a huge range in advantage, because most players would know to never sell of their UNID. They do it because they are desperate for cash.

But of course, being a popular streamer is what makes it so much more effective, it's like having an advertisement campaign. Without it, players would have a much harder time finding such good UNID deals in order to profit exponentially from. In the general market, the UNID price is probably more fair. Regardless, this effect is only occurring due to the imbalanced drop table.

Yes, had one person kept 1 EF, they may not have gotten anything, but the chances are in your favor, if you do get it, you win the game once in for all, nearly, considering you don't get scammed right after by using the AH.

The fact that players can consolidate their chance by buying multiple UNIDs gives them the edge over all others that farm individually, it is effectively more worth it to just buy UNIDs that can actually roll well with cash you got from a drop, because the amount you spend, if you spend it on the right type of UNID, will most likely yield you a profit due to the instability of the drop table.

The only trick with it is you need a lot of money first, and the problem is no one but the top 5% that got lucky, botted, cheated, or used the RMAH have that money, and since the drop table is made in a way that makes players want to sell their items UNID, the people that have generated enough money can now do this sort of consolidation and make way more money in a way shorter time than had they farmed those UNIDs themselves. They could either partake in this, buying of UNIDs, or they could play the AH. But in the end, it's all taking advantage of other people in order to become the best. This couldn't happen if the system was balanced.

    Without these critical philosophical changes, Diablo will collapse under its own weight

To sum it all up, these philosophical outlooks may change the game for sustainability. Currently, the game has been placed in a coffin due to its unsustainability. It's ready to be buried, they are just trying to get as many people to donate to its cause before they bury it...

Essentially, currently everyone wants to sell of their junk because they are deprived of worth because all they find is useless items. Yes, they will get items in the AH, but many won't even sell. If items were balanced, items would be circulating through it like no other (now).

If the loot table was balanced, players would constantly be selling off their items since they're replaced by new items, and since their old items were actually useful, they will slowly generate income to buy the next good thing, and slowly rank up. And since people rank up, they feel worthy, this makes them tell their friends, and more people start to play again (had they had a balanced system from the beginning, then all the players that just got the game would still be playing now, progressing).

Rather than now, more and more players are leaving than more people are joining, what you're left with are the old items trying to be resold in the AH, and every once in awhile a good item either being put at a correct price or put up by some noob that didn't know how to use the AH and underprices it where the bots and pro's immediately buy it and reap in more profits. This system is degenerative... players will leave and leave until there are only the best ones left, but since no one plays, everything they have become worthless as well.

The AH could have been successful, and will be if properly adjusted, but currently it's running out of fuel, they are just cashing in the last remaining customers by making them use the AH as much as they can, for nothing.

    A balanced loot system calls for more challenging battles

Once the loot table is balanced by establishing a unique system of RNG that creates items in consideration of what players would like, you can know that you're players are generally successful and this leads to them being able to take down more challenging foes, making the gameplay richer and more intense.

If the drop table is how it is now, I bet we would be able to actually beat the old Inferno, which was actually a good way to set the difficulty, actually making it hard. The only reason it didn't work out that way before was because the drop table before and still now, is just horrible and just makes only select players elite over everyone else. And once an elite group has been established, the pyramid scheme will arise, and everyone will be essentially enslaved, farming for the rich to reap in all the best items and monopolize the system.

    Balancing skills, creating specialization

They claim this game has millions of builds, but what they forget to mention is that 99% of them don't work, so you only end up using one build. What they need is to buff every skill, so they all are useful in some way, they have been doing that, but very hesitantly over time, which you can't blame, but changes effect the players too. Nerfs because a skill is overpowered make player's items specialized in that build lose value, the only way you can neutralize the overpowered"ness" is by buffing other skills and making them useful... they don't seem to be too focused on changing the methodology of how a skill works, in order for players to achieve a specialization in their ability.

Each skill needs to do one thing and one thing well. It is hard for me to elaborate or describe this because it would require me to come up with actual skill effects, but what I am pinpointing is that current skills are either weak and don't do as much as one particular skill that seems to do it all, or one particular rune on a skill. The more variety that actually is effective the more true diversity.

    Path of Exile: Diablo II's true kin... In terms of graphics

Going back to the topic of the original Diablo build that was shown in the trailer, how the graphics were oriented/styled; don't confuse me with meaning that PoE is better than Diablo III and ought to be the DIII at all. But the style of PoE and the Diablo III build in the trailer looked similar to DII, but the current DIII along with the version shown in the video have much smoother, more pleasing animations, and an aw-stucking physics system than verses PoE, what I find PoE lacks. It allows for the realism of the brute carnage that you witness at the very beginning of the video fighting ghouls. That is why I think if they should have trended more towards how they made the graphics shown in that build of the game it would've been a lot more resembling DII.

And of course, Diablo III is true to its playstyle that I still love, but its changed a philosophy in how the game works that really undercuts the rest of the game functionalities.

Some of you that have posted mentioned PoE saying that it still has that style of customization and diversity, however, I think they have taken the proper step of completely reworking how the game is thought out, and therefore not at all like DII. DIII captures the major essence of the old game, but the change in how you progress through the game because of the drops has ruined the experience for all of us.

The graphics in the build shown in the video above I would say is far more similar to DII and PoE. The more reflective textures on the models as I would describe it give it more of a shine and I think people would appreciate that over a dull blurred color.

If you want to take another look at how the game could look, take a look at DarkD3. However, I wouldn't recommend using it just because whether it's bannable or not is unclear (please don't bring up this topic, we're not discussing whether it is here).

I think many people would definitely have enjoyed a mix of the graphics of the earlier DIII build with DarkD3 (especially the old DII text) and perhaps elements of PoE (which is just a copy of DII, a bit polished, but still not as good as DIII's animations, imo... while of course gameplay wise it's a completely new realm).

Though I don't play that game either because I don't have the beta or I've actually been caught up getting far in DIII hoping that Blizzard will come around eventually, which they still can, I think that there is a region of players that DIII misses by having the graphics very much different than it was back in DII.

    Do you still play Diablo III as much as you did when you first started?
  • I don't, but I wish I did (don't get me wrong, I still play more than the average player). How can Diablo sustain such a system, when it is in competition with other games that have a balanced system unlike this? People will only leave after finding out the game wasn't worth continually playing unless you invested more money than you paid for the game with, unless you're content with forever farming slowly, endlessly, and never beating the game; the game becomes a grind when it's not fun, I should look forward to playing the game rather than looking forward to when I'm lucky.
  • And how did the story feel to you as a part of the game universe you are apart of? Do you consider the outlooks and aspects of the character(s) you play with? Would you like to see more connection with the story of the game to the gameplay itself? This in turn leads to the next step, after properly balancing the loot table. Bringing back the memorability of the game, instilled in our minds when the Diablo II playerbase were kids, now adults, along with the new playerbase of the kids now.

    Revisiting the Diablo story, making use of the story arch to illustrate different aspects of the game, allowing a more unique replayability

I want to cover this section using a good strategy, the strategy that is usually enclosed, but why should it be when we have this open forum of players from all over the world? The players, I mind you, the ones that play the game.

After going through the majority of the posts and picking out ones that clearly understood what these posts conceptually idealized, this is what they have to say about the system, pretty much a summary of the discerning populace of this game.

We can really see in general the direction we need to head by reading each of the player's thinking after they tried the product. We want to play the game, but the game is not balanced in a way the rewards the people that ought to be rewarded. When we can all progress on a comfortable curve and enjoy our journey through the game, that's the best game one could hope for.

From what it seems like there are two central issues in the game that I have addressed in the post, and something you also have to keep an eye on that was well represented by what one of them had to say.
  • There needs to be a next step, and close to the final steps that you can take to make the game the best it can be, essentially forever, if you put the right care into continuing to do so... These insane bosses could be handled with a diverse enough, challenging enough, set of skills that can be mastered as an artistry to create ultimate power that you can actually defeat these seemingly undefeatable bosses, and the reward is fair, the game would be perfect.
  • Teamwork would be key at this point, of course. Much like balancing the game itself, this process must work in synchronous to achieve the highest potential result. One or the players as a whole can measure this through testing and methodology. Once we can achieve a skill system that allows for players to cooperate or fight against each other with a sustainable balance, we have also balanced the game properly.
  • There are two separate entities of desire, one to be able to progress and two, being able to enjoy the progression, and that's where you have an infinite amount of new things you could come up with to make the game better. But the root basis begins with a balanced drop system/economy.
  • This must come first before we can sustain a system to allow elaboration and creation of a more diverse and in-depth system. Now that you understand what is necessary to achieve this, you can then begin to theorize for the above point.

    Supporting responses:

  • Im sorry, but the OP is really not right on any of his points. Sorry you wasted your time OP, seems like a lot of thought went into it.

    The changes suggested by the user base HAVE improved this game. It is by far better than it was when it was released.

    No, the content does not need to be harder. MP10 is plenty hard.

    Playing the AH is now a meta game, like it or not. Its been said before, please do not touch this free market. The OP posted an example of the rich getting richer. Welcome to planet earth OP, where the rich get richer. Noobs should absolutely sell their EFs for 13M. You posted odds of getting good stats on gear. Do you think that changes for legendaries?

    And finally, the thing that makes this game different from D2 is the fact that Jay Wilson decided to get clever and "relieve" us of skill points while reintroducing us to WoW. D2 was built around skill points. You got your power from skill points. Your gear didnt give you power. It made you more powerful. In D3, we rely on our gear to give us power. Our item slots are stat sticks. And since we all share the same stats, with the exception of our primary stat, it makes the gear boring. We're all after the same stuff.

    Here's an idea. Create new, off the wall legendaries. Create an item that gives me manaless, cooldownless teleport on my right click. (and of course has the requisite stats so that im not gimped since, as I said, we inexplicably need the stats on our gear) Then, after a month, remove it from the drop table. Ouila, you've created a truly legendary item.

    No doubt the game is better, but it's still not good enough for players to want to start playing or come back after they'd quit.

    Obviously, additions such as the MP system and like you said, from initial, the skill points, which could be further expanded upon, imo, and the paragon level system. All things that added to the diversity of a game that had a core failure happening. And I've emphasized enough what that core problem is.

    Once that is fixed, the game should be back in shape, but before that, we've got an MP system that ranges in 11 difficulties counting 0, but 90% of the players are stuck in 0 because it's the most efficient way to farm with the gear that's being dropped (crap; once again, the elites have the best, able to faceroll MP10).

  • They can even make the bosses more difficult. They should take some tips from the folks that designed RIFT. Those dungeons are insanely difficult and drop the best loots. But then again, we are talking about blizzard developers. Where one "wall" from a champ/elite will make you stuck. PRO programming....

  • I wanted to add my two cents about a major issue that seems largely ignored: The static skills.

    I want to invest in skills. This is a major issue for me. Everyone has the same exact character, except with different loot... No replayability per class. Also, you're forced to use specific skills. I want to use the skills that I like and make them stronger so that they become viable, with points or whatever... You know, customization and character progression...

    Making all skills equaly viable isn't what I want. It's the same as right now. I want to invest in things, and reap the rewards of my choices. I want to learn from my mistakes, respec(limited), and make other completely different characters of the same class.


  • This I found really interesting also as I played through the first few times. It was like the bosses where just there but offered nothing extra. Uber bosses come to mind also, fight the hardest battle of the game thus far and then you see a pile of blues drop and two or three TERRIBLE rares...and yet again you are left feeling slightly cheated for all your hard work.

  • Legendarys and set items in D2 had preset mins and maxs; the differences between low end and elite is usually not that great compared to here. I find a tals neck in D2 just like most tals neck so the items always has a base value simply b/c of the item itself. In D3, all items have wildy different stats so difference between a bad one and a good one is MASSIVE. This means that say a Lacuni Prowlers with bad stats is worth nothing, yet one with even mediocre stats costs 100s of mill. Items need set base values with preset numbers making them way more similiar.

    ie. Lacunit prowlers: set main stat 80-160/vit 60-100/res all 40-80/rw speed 6-12%/crit % 4-8/random 2 other stats.

    This can be done however that is needed for balance but atleast the base item is usable unlike now where odds are that Leg has junk stats and totally worthless.

    This will mean that elite players will want best of the best, but the average player will find a bad version but it will still be useful....just a bit less than an elite one. This will average prices down and make them affordable to all.

    In example, raise your hands how many geared alts you have so you can play other classes when your main becomes tiresome? Personally, I only have one char with gear and it's not even that good. There is no way I will be able to afford to gear another char unless I blow lots of RL cash! In D2 LoD, I had at least 4 end game playable chars or more. Not so in D3; it's not an alt friendly game all due to absurb AH costs and extreme rarity of decently stated items.

    Drop rates....I feel this game drops way way to much trash. 99.999999% is either vendor fodder or in most cases; not even worth picking up. This is a far cry from D2 where even low end runes/gems/jewels/legs/set items/ethreal/socketed blues-whites-eth/charms/etc have trade worth since they can be used in crafts and stuff. Crafting here is way to costly and produces junk. Next patch is supposed to adjust this a bit but on other hand it's all BoA so what's the point? I fluke and make a nice item costing 100s of mill worth of combine yet I can't even trade/sell it? Not that they are looking to be BiS like they say, odds that happening is less than winning the lottery regardless.... /meh.

    The AH is another fail imo, they wanted to cut out the third party black marketers which it has, but it's also given them complete and utter control of the economy thus driving prices through the roof. This alone has driven a good portion of the people who bought the game away and that is not good no matter what the trolls say. I really really think that having a RL money AH is a down right terrible idea. I hate the AH even though it's the only place I can get gear from. I certainly don't get it by, you know....actually PLAYING the game. I really don't enjoy playing a virtual stock market camping an AH interface all night long to gear up. It's not 'fun'.

    W/e. To me, where they went wrong was the fact that they had 10 YEARS of D2 history to go from but instead they threw most of the features and great mechanics entirely out the window in the sequel. D2 LoD is still > D3 in every single way, even right down to BNet 1.0. The only improvement I see here is the graphics, other than that; a 10+ year old game is still superior. If they did a direct copy with D3s engine, I bet my hat it would sell 10s of millions of copies easily.

    Simply put, D2 LoD was near perfection when it comes to a great and rewarding ARPG to play...one that I played off and on for 10 years straight, even to this very day!

    Only way this will change is if Blizzard seriously wants to make this game great, but I feel they won't b/c that will cost MONEY which means dipping into profits. No, can't do that; the suits would get angry.

    I hate to say it but it seems like I got Kotick'd in D3. Feel free to prove me wrong though, infact I pray every day they will.

    D3 is not the true successor I was hoping for, it's like a cheap knock off made to cash in on a popular and much love franchise......?

  • This post is a good read with a lot of great feedback and I appreciate you putting it together. Thanks! While there are other points in the original post, I wanted to briefly talk about items since it’s the big one.

    We know that (for many players) it’s much more rewarding to gear up from items that you find while playing normally than it is to necessarily go through Auction House, and we’re working to make improvements in that area. There are a lot of ways we could attempt to reach that goal, and choosing the best one(s) to go with is not always a fast process. I want to encourage you all to continue to post your thoughts on the subject and I promise we will keep reading and relaying them.


    I have a Diablo 3 account with 3 characters, but I usually use this one when I'm on public wifi.

    Gearing, and skill system is what made me quit Diablo 3

    The gear in Diablo 3 is far too random.

    Duping of the BEST items, is what made Diablo 2 fun. It made good gear actually affordable by many players.

    I buy gear with real money because I don't have time to farm, and I don't want to use bots - but at the same time, I want to have fun and kick !@# in PvP..... I did that in Diablo 2, and I've also spent a few hundred dollars in Diablo 3......until I realized there is no end, there is an infinite amount of variation, and random gear stats (especially after Blizzard made the new legendaries BiS).
    I realized Diablo 3 is rotten to the core.

    All the major game changes in Diablo 2 were made SOLEY for the good of the game in mind. However in Diablo 3, there is a mixture of good intentions for the game, and maximizing profit - because now Blizzard is a broker for the sales of virtual items for 15% commission.

    In Diablo 2, I was a part of a big dueling community, and all the duelers I know have bought items with real money from 3rd party websites - but again, this is because the BEST dueling items were actually affordable.

    However, in Diablo 3, you cannot be absolutely well geared unless you spend over $3,000 - and I think this is where Blizzard went wrong. It's too expensive, and not many people can afford it.

    Diablo 3, and the RMAH would have been MUCH more successful, if the very best gears are just as abundant as the very best Duped gears in Diablo 2, and they are not so random. That way, people of all incomes and ages can have fun for a cheaper price. Right now we either pay $20 for pieces of junk and get dominated in PvP, or $250 OR MORE (for example 2 billion gold) to get a single piece of the absolute best item. And most of the time, when it comes to the buying and selling of absolute best items, Blizzard doesn't even get a fraction of this money, because the gold is bought from 3rd party websites and not the RMAH.

    Regarding to the skill system - I remember a comment I read from Blizzard North's developer, and he said it best.....It places an overly important emphasis on your weapon.

    Anyways, Blizzard may have made $150 from me for the purchase of Diablo 3 and the RMAH, but I doubt I will be coming back to Diablo 3.

    Seeing Blizzard's business model and the direction they are headed, I also doubt I will be playing anymore Blizzard games in the future.

    I also don't appreciate it when Blizzard screwed myself, and MANY other players when they made the new legendaries BiS, and instantly invalidating all the previous items we bought. I am sure Blizzard lost many of those customers for life.

  • It would be much easier to post constructive criticism if I knew what the developers vision was for the game.

    It sounds lame... possibly trollish, but I can't discern through actions as to what that vision is, and not just for what they want D3 to be as a game either. I'm talking about everything right down to player characters and NPC's alike.

    Maybe the contradictions are from listening to the player base and trying to give us what we want?

    Example: Vision for End Game is endless item hunt to fuel transactions for the AH/RMAH.

    I need more than one way to item hunt. Running act3 over and over again and having access to all the items in the game doesn't cut it. Dispersing items throughout the game via loot tables... whether they be based on monsters/acts/checkpoints or whatever is a good start. Monster Power has made item levels moot in inferno because at MP1 any monster can drop anything in that huge item window that everyone is trying to get items from.

    I need more ways to get items. As long as crafting is 99% random it can not fill the role it was meant to (99 because you do get to pick what base item gets crafted). Our characters are way to affix dependent to use our resources for crafting as it is now. Perhaps adding a "Temper" option to the blacksmith allowing you to gamble money on rerolling/increasing/losing an affix/affixes on our items akin to the enchanter(?) in torchlight or being able to pick more affixes on your craftables (like your doing with the new ones) but add exponential cost per chosen affix versus a free random affix would make me look twice.

    I need more items to need. Regardless of the base item, we all need the same affixes. How about adding some more useful affixes to compete with the big 8 (main stat, vit, armor, AR, CC, CD, IAS, LS) such as increase blocked damage, increase dodge chance and increase proc chance (of all things procing, so increasing proc coefficients on skills). I've got 13 equipment slots with 6 affixes and only 8 out the 30 something are worth looking at.
  • There are also a number of people that feel that the old skill tree and customization of a particular character is a real fundamental that should be brought back. The only problem with that, even though it's ideally what we want, is the fact that players have to completely start from scratch if they want anything unique. We hope to balance that to allow the game to seem more easily accessible to a player that wants to be able to progress on one account and not have to restart if they think they messed up or something.
  • So, we also have to be aware of the game's boundaries, I think every game that allows too much customization in a linear degree is bad because it requires too much work to be able to enjoy every aspect of the game. You want to be able to inherently switch to another way to thinking the game or playing the game and still enjoy and keep the progress you've achieved with one character.

    Creating a diversified class/skill tree system that can be reworked and 'reset' without having to restart new

I'll just begin with, budgeting.

Now that I have pretty much covered the majority of the game's design and what I think most of us would agree to be areas that can be tweaked and adjusted to better match the original design philosophy of the original game that set its mark in the gaming industry. These next two topics are dealing with areas of expansion.

I don't want to delve into it myself because then I would be developing the game for them, so I'll ask, knowing that these are very realistically necessary areas of improvement for the game, what would you like to be done in terms of these two routes of expanding the game to its maximum potential?

Post what you think!

    Creating a PvP environment by linking the story with the purpose of the battles to occur within the realm of Diablo

Post your own ideas!
Edited by Sol#1257 on 4/9/2013 1:37 AM PDT
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Because "kids" are Blizzards target new market. They are easily satisfied with pretty graphics mindless action. They also like to argue about who has the highest number(ie damage).

Instead of saying D3 failed, its more accurate to assume D3 sold out. Any random person can pick up the game and as long as they have the patience/real cash they can become "L33t".
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Result of no clear goal in the team's collective mind. Easily shifted by the community.
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True game is trivial with so many good legs. They also nerfed it for all the babies crying multiple times and about to nerf RD the last hard affix cos of listening to 'us'. Wish they stopped listening game was perfect in 1.0.2 IMHO and rares and even blues still had value. Now we dont even pick em up. Market is destroyed for anything not BiS which is a hand full of legs rolled right.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/20/2013 9:54 PM PST
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Where Diablo is heading...

If you were to ask any ordinary player if they would rather have a treasure chest full of fool's gold or a chest of mainly good quality goods that work decent, but a couple of significantly 'unique' and 'special' items (magical), the choice is more obvious. Back in the old Diablo days, magical items were worthy already, while legendaries were considered godly. This created a balanced and enjoyable system where players were pleased constantly, but sometimes struck with immense joy by finding something special.



If that's how Diablo II was then i want THAT in D3. I can't play D3 any more. I just tried today, and i poofed out before finishing half my run. 99.9% (literally) of loot being utterly worthless is too much. You can't sell it, you can't use it, why the hell am i playing this then lol. I'll keep a look out to see if the 1.07 is worth playing, or if it's just another Hellfire ring situation. (Having to craft dozens, and dozens of items just to get a "good" one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUQW8taiUDE
Edited by ILLMINDedOn3#1662 on 1/20/2013 10:06 PM PST
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So much hate... But Blizzard will continue to side with the majority, in this case the "kids". Happens in WoW, happens here. Now if you want an easy children game, go buy a Blizzard game.

You fail to mention that the problem in this game is not the quantity of the drops or the quality of the drops. The drops themselves are faulted. Good drops are depending on stacking luck; geting the multiple correct prefix and getting high rolls for them. Theres no weapon proficiency, elemental damage doesn't matter, and rarity doesn't guarantee better rolls. Essentially (and ideally), everyone wants the SAME item. Another example of a core failure.
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More loot equals better loot. If instead of get one lottery ticket, you get ten every purchase, the odds of wining the lottery is increased significantly. But the payout is also similarly divided by the increased number of winners.

What was a $250 dollar item is now vendor trash. The benchmark on what is good keeps rising regardless if they give more loot or better loot. So no, drops are fine, itemization is the problem.
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01/20/2013 10:03 PMPosted by Sol
You should be agreeing with me.


I didnt say i didnt. I'm just pointing out Blizzard can easily ignore the "more drops" pleas but they didnt because of their current policy of making money is more important than making a great game.
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no one actually said they wanted MORE drops, they've all said they want better drops.

of course the current drop system is set up in such a way that it was simpler for blizz to just increase the drop rate with the assumption that more drops would mean people had more of a chance to find that good roll. unfortunately good rolls are so astronomically unlikely that it's made things worse.

they brought this on themselves
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nice post you seem to know what exactly is the problem with this game
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You don't need to underline every damn word
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