Diablo® III

Nerfing Crit possibly fixes everything wrong with D3.

01/20/2013 02:34 PMPosted by Paz
Nerf CC, and you just open the door for something else to take its spot


There's nothing else.


So what happens when every stat is crap? Better nerf all resist too. I hear everyone stacks it.
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I just don't understand people who request nerfs. Blizzard has the right idea with what they are doing with the Marquise Ruby for example. They are buffing it to give players other options instead of the Emerald. That's what they need to do for other stuff in the game IF something needs to change at all.
Nerfing CC will not change the fact that all damage modifiers stack on weapon damage... which is what kills lots of the item diversity.

The time for nerfs has long passed. I agree CC/CD is too powerful and should be at least capped but the game has already been out too long so any such measure will just negatively impact the remaining playerbase(aka blizz loses a huge amount of players).
Edited by hampster#1586 on 1/20/2013 2:49 PM PST
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I kinda agree ^ adding more options right now would be better as the number of ways to increase your damage is fairly low when compared to a game like d2. Like adding stuff like adds damage and % damage to non weapon gear would be nice to see.


^^^^THIS^^^^

PS...Diablo 2 didn't have CC/CHD and look how successful it was


Diablo 2 didnt have resolutions above 800x600, and look how successful it was! :P
Sorry, more seriously though, there is nothing wrong about CC and CDH as stats, only how valuable they are.

I think CC/CHD is just another gimmick to stroke a players ego by showing them high damage numbers. I remember how happy I was when I got to 13k hammers as a hammerdin in Diablo 2. In Diablo 3, 13k damage is a joke that vendor geared players can achieve.
Edited by kdp#1641 on 1/20/2013 2:51 PM PST
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Diablo 2 didnt have resolutions above 800x600, and look how successful it was! :P
Sorry, more seriously though, there is nothing wrong about CC and CDH as stats, only how valuable they are.

I think CC/CHD is just another gimmick to stroke a players ego by showing them high damage numbers. I remember how happy I was when I got to 13k hammers as a hammerdin in Diablo 2. In Diablo 3, 13k damage is a joke that vendor geared players can achieve.


Well...yeah. Diablo 2 didn't have Inferno difficulty. The damage scaling is way different in this game.
01/20/2013 02:44 PMPosted by Darkinsanity
I just don't understand people who request nerfs. Blizzard has the right idea with what they are doing with the Marquise Ruby for example. They are buffing it to give players other options instead of the Emerald. That's what they need to do for other stuff in the game IF something needs to change at all.


Doesn't really matter if you buff or nerf. End result is the exact same.
Buffs or nerfs should be chosen depending on what is easiest.

As in, its much easier to nerf crit than to buff 30 other stats individually.

On the other hand its probably easier to buff a stat like "Thorns" than it is to nerf other stats.
01/20/2013 02:51 PMPosted by Darkinsanity
Well...yeah. Diablo 2 didn't have Inferno difficulty. The damage scaling is way different in this game.


That's my point though, the damage/health numbers are ridiculous. 270 million health? The highest HP pool in D2 was 5 million I believe on Baal. It's like Blizzard added in CC/CHD to get to these high numbers when it wasn't necessary in the first place.

01/20/2013 02:19 PMPosted by Iskra
Not if proc coefficients were altered to reflect changes to CC. I think that having a cap for CHC/CHD would benefit the game greatly. As it is now, there is hardly any choice in gearing for PvM or DPS builds in PvP.


This is a great idea that I think blizzard should really look into.
Skills that rely in crit chance for their effects to work are really fun to use :/
It would be a real waste to hurt those
01/20/2013 02:49 PMPosted by kdp
I think CC/CHD is just another gimmick to stroke a players ego by showing them high damage numbers. I remember how happy I was when I got to 13k hammers as a hammerdin in Diablo 2. In Diablo 3, 13k damage is a joke that vendor geared players can achieve.

Dmg numbers are mostly meaningless. Doesnt technically really matters if we do 13k dps or 13m dps.

I would prefer if numbers were lower though, just for the sake of future progression. It gets ridiculous when you reach the point where numbers gets too big to read in the UI for example, or when you arent sure if the floating dmg number you saw was 100000000000 or 1000000000000 :)

That is really something that should have been adjusted pre-release though. Blizzard has been afraid of fixing number inflation in WoW for years, due to the psychology of seeing your stats suddenly decreasing.

Crit and crit dmg has really nothing to do with this in any case.
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01/20/2013 02:39 PMPosted by kdp
PS...Diablo 2 didn't have CC/CHD like Diablo 3 and look how successful it was.


Though, D2 did have Deadly Strike, which was a chance to crit for double damage (100% CHD). The difference, besides the amount of CHD, is it was only available on unqiues, sets, lo rune, and crafted helms. Only a few of them were viable for high level characters (gore riders, highlords, fury, grief) and you often would not stack all DS items because your build funtioned better with other items. The affix didn't dominate almost every single slot like it does in D3.
01/20/2013 02:59 PMPosted by phoenixskank
You kill that then it's average damage that's OP. Fix that then black weapons with % to elemental damage boost gear becomes the next "mandatory" stats for items to be good. They don't need to take anything away. They need to add more damage mechanics. Elemental effects doing elemental things, crushing blow, static field, etc. Right now there is pretty much one way to hit high levels of practical damage. The system is two dimensional and uninspired so let's not simplify it further.

Those other boosts are nowhere near as OP as CC/CHD is now. I agree though, more damage mechanics are in need.
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I know Blizzard is hesitant to nerf crit due to the massive outrage the community would surely experience... but for all the same reasons blizz nerfed Attack Speed, crit has got to go. Right now crit is the single determining factor on whether a piece of equipment is good, or if it's just medicore. You could have all perfect double stat primary roll with awesome vit/resistance, etc.. but no crit and it's laughably bad.

The itemization is extremely one-dimensional in this way. To make matters worse, actual balance is effected. Crit trivializes the content, which is against the design philosophy of things supposedly being "very hard" in Inferno mode. Crit allows for cheese builds like sprint/ww and critical mass/wicked wind... which no matter how much Blizz claims they like these builds, you cannot look me in the eye and say it was the developer's intent for those skills to synergize in that way.

Right now Crit Chance needs to be given a hard cap of... 30% (30% may be way too high, but I say to nerf it to that level, and then see how it holds up, and if necessary, drop it down to 25% max)

Crit damage needs to have the values cut in half on all equipment in all slots, and emeralds need to do soemthing else other than crit damage in weapons.. take that away, nerf it out entirely.

See if the game doesn't get better. A lot of people will be angry for a while, but just like Attack Speed nerf, eventually they'll forget about it and move on.. meanwhile balance returns to the item market, so that more than just 0.001% of items are worth anything.. suddenly all manner of items are worth something to someone.

The Economy gets fixed, Itemization gets fixed, OP builds get fixed, and the game becomes something resembling what the team intended it to be, again.


They weren't cheese when game was hard. What's a CM proc off with sheilded minions? Nothing thats what. What's a low DPS CM gonna do when they enraged cos all he could afford was ias and CC? Nothing thats what.

Game was sissified and those builds that shine "on hit" mechanic came to front. They wernt OP in 1.0.2 they got wrecked mostly unless u had billions.

They wernt OP post PTR 1.0.5 till babies got 1.0.5 nerfed.

MAKE GAME HARDER AGAIN DON"T NERF US BRO.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/20/2013 3:12 PM PST
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01/20/2013 02:59 PMPosted by phoenixskank
You kill that then it's average damage that's OP. Fix that then black weapons with % to elemental damage boost gear becomes the next "mandatory" stats for items to be good. They don't need to take anything away. They need to add more damage mechanics. Elemental effects doing elemental things, crushing blow, static field, etc. Right now there is pretty much one way to hit high levels of practical damage. The system is two dimensional and uninspired so let's not simplify it further.


Nobody is saying that the affix should be obliterated so that another affix can become OP, we're saying that it should be nerfed into balance with other stats.

"They need to add more damage mechanics. Elemental effects doing elemental things, crushing blow, static field, etc. Right now there is pretty much one way to hit high levels of practical damage." This is true.
01/20/2013 02:07 PMPosted by Paz
crit has got to go


no your thoughts need nerfing moron.

BEST nerf in the world.
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01/20/2013 03:09 PMPosted by Mike
crit has got to go


no your thoughts need nerfing moron.

BEST nerf in the world.


Your insults need buffing.

Compared to D2 this is just lame, non troughout customization.

yes, and D2 had other ways how to achieve huge damage with your character.

nerfing either CD, CC or IAS (again) or even with a hard cap will NOT solve anything. People will STILL look for that gear.

All you do is actually pushing people again out of the game just as how they did with the IAS nerf.

Like others said, it would be better to work on alternatives, like reworking thorns or elemental damage on weapons to make it more usefull.

Why do people always cry so fast for "nerfs"? I dont get it ...

Not to mention, why dont nerf All Restiance as well, and armor and, and, and, and ... afterall those are all affixes people look for on their gear.

Nerfing CC will not change the fact that all damage modifiers stack on weapon damage... which is what kills lots of the item diversity.

The time for nerfs has long passed. I agree CC/CD is too powerful and should be at least capped but the game has already been out too long so any such measure will just negatively impact the remaining playerbase(aka blizz loses a huge amount of players).


This. A thousand times this.

Dont people realize that when they cry for nerfs its like curing flue on a cancer patient? The skill/item system in D3 has a few flaws in its CORE DESIGN, and no nerf on CC, CD or what ever will make that go away.
Edited by CrniVuk#2227 on 1/20/2013 3:14 PM PST
01/20/2013 02:19 PMPosted by Iskra
Not if proc coefficients were altered to reflect changes to CC.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Iskra for D3 Game Director
Why not just remove CC, CH, IAS, AR, Life Reg and Life %, legendaries, rares, and just play with magic stuff, yeah that would be sooo cool.

Mother of God all you people think of is how to make the game even less fun than it's already is -.-

D2 LOD had over 40% IAS, over 40% run speed, more than just 1 socket in helms or weapons, no cooldowns and it didn't have stupid stat nerfs, (occasionally some skills) like now and look how successful it was...

STOP all the retarded nerfs instead buff something else and if the game's "too easy" for you why don't you start playing Inferno on MP10 WITHOUT AH or RMAH with only what you can find in game. I wonder if you'll still consider the game so easy...
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