Diablo® III

Nerfing Crit possibly fixes everything wrong with D3.

Why do people always cry so fast for "nerfs"? I dont get it ...


Jelly cant keep up. whateves. They need to make game way harder if we too imba. I thought that was what MP system was all about but it got nerfed into a grind. lots of HP to plow through but not much threatening.
yes, and D2 had other ways how to achieve huge damage with your character.

nerfing either CD, CC or IAS (again) or even with a hard cap will NOT solve anything. People will STILL look for that gear.


Except that if there was a cap, people could reach it without having to look for that gear in every slot that it's available in, allowing people to look for other types of gear as well.

01/20/2013 03:11 PMPosted by CrniVuk
Like others said, it would be better to work on alternatives, like reworking thorns or elemental damage on weapons to make it more usefull.


It would be better to do both.

01/20/2013 03:11 PMPosted by CrniVuk
Why do people always cry so fast for "nerfs"? I dont get it ...


01/20/2013 03:11 PMPosted by CrniVuk
Dont people realize that when they cry for nerfs its like curing flue on a cancer patient? The skill/item system in D3 has a few flaws in its CORE DESIGN, and no nerf on CC, CD or what ever will make that go away.


Sorry, but nobody is crying here (except you crying about this thread) or making 'fast' judgement about crit. Its 8 months after release. People aren't asking for a cap to CC because they are just jealous of someone's DPS, we're asking because we've had sufficient time to judge the system and have come to the conclusion that not having CC/CD dominate every single item slot would create more gearing diversity and a more enjoyable game.

Still, new affixes are needed.
01/20/2013 03:17 PMPosted by kdp
Iskra for D3 Game Director


Thanks but no thanks. :D

Also, in order to scale proc coefficients to a possible CC cap, they would need to have separate coefficients for crit and LoH/everything else, which they should have done in the first place.
Edited by Iskra#1389 on 1/20/2013 3:28 PM PST
The state of the game speaks for itself--months ago I'd be boo'ed off the stage suggesting this. What we have here, though, is a level-headed discussion.. because people know. Everyone here knows about the problem I've brought up.

There are disagreements on HOW to fix it, but I don't think many are denying that there is a problem, right now.

Crit has far, far too much value weight in current itemization. It's, right now, the single determining factor between an item being good, and being bad. Take that 1,000,000,000 item, and remove the crit from it. Now it's worth roughly 100,000.
01/20/2013 02:07 PMPosted by Paz
Crit allows for cheese builds like sprint/ww and critical mass/wicked wind... which no matter how much Blizz claims they like these builds, you cannot look me in the eye and say it was the developer's intent for those skills to synergize in that way.


I agree that the itemization needs a lot of work. However, the way those builds work as an intelligent combination of skills/gear/playstyle is exactly how a diablo game should function. If you want a game where having a optimized combo of abilities and gear make you feel like an insignificant foot soldier trying to scrap his way through mighty, superior monsters then I suggest you check out WoW. I know that sounds like sarcasm, but I played WoW for a long time and it is an honest suggestion based on experience.
Just add more affixes that are boosts to specific skills, but make these affixes mutually exclusive with CC and CD. Like a flat percentage boost to a certain skill, and if an item rolls that affix, it CANNOT have CC or CD.

So you get some gloves that have a whopping 17% damage boost to Bola Shot (or 5% life steal to Bola Shot, or 100% CD to Bola Shot, 10% movement speed after firing Bola Shot, whatevs). So do you want gloves that have CC and CD and make everything 10% more awesome? Or do you want THESE gloves that make Bola Shot 17% awesome? It gives people a tough decision. High DPS in everything or SUPER high DPS in certain skills.

That would guide people into more specific builds, and increase the likelihood of finding gloves that are at least good for SOMEONE (IE, these gloves have a Strafe bonus, but I'm looking for a Bola Shot bonus, then sell them).

Hell idk, just an idea. But I DEFINITELY don't want CC or CD nerfed. I like doing big damage and killing stuff fast. It's fun.
Completely disagree. There are other ways to improve the current system and you would be surprised how ridiculously simple it is to add more effects onto an existing game system, AND also bring back a beloved element from D2 at the same time.
You seems to have a major flaw here though...

1. You have cool downs or resource requirements on all high damaging skills. Since when crit is nerfed it will be substantially harder to do sufficient damage with resource generating attacks the only viable skills to use would be the high damage ones. This will absolutely tank play speeds.

2. Capping crit will lower DPS by a huge amount. Just look at what happens to your DPS when you only have 30% CC. This will make life steal ineffective for generating hp. This means LOH will be required, unless everyone goes 100% tank which is completely against what an ARPG should be.

3. More LOH is required, the more attack speed is required, thus making it the required stat on everything: you NEED LOH to proc to live, since you can't kill things fast enough if it doesn't.

4. Looking back at the first problem, you can't do any high damaging stats. You MUST now use at least one resource generator skill as your main attack and only occasionally pop off a high damaging attack. This will kill build diversity even more, since now you will be locked into a specific set of skills you must have in those slots otherwise you will die or have such low damage that it would be like back in May when nobody could do inferno.

Nerfing crit will not fix D3. It will create a mess of problems that idiots will then think can be fixed by more damage nerfs. CC isn't broken like IAS was, it is just a required stat like main stat and all res are.
You seems to have a major flaw here though...

1. You have cool downs or resource requirements on all high damaging skills. Since when crit is nerfed it will be substantially harder to do sufficient damage with resource generating attacks the only viable skills to use would be the high damage ones. This will absolutely tank play speeds.

2. Capping crit will lower DPS by a huge amount. Just look at what happens to your DPS when you only have 30% CC. This will make life steal ineffective for generating hp. This means LOH will be required, unless everyone goes 100% tank which is completely against what an ARPG should be.

3. More LOH is required, the more attack speed is required, thus making it the required stat on everything: you NEED LOH to proc to live, since you can't kill things fast enough if it doesn't.

4. Looking back at the first problem, you can't do any high damaging stats. You MUST now use at least one resource generator skill as your main attack and only occasionally pop off a high damaging attack. This will kill build diversity even more, since now you will be locked into a specific set of skills you must have in those slots otherwise you will die or have such low damage that it would be like back in May when nobody could do inferno.

Nerfing crit will not fix D3. It will create a mess of problems that idiots will then think can be fixed by more damage nerfs. CC isn't broken like IAS was, it is just a required stat like main stat and all res are.


Every problem you just listed has the same answer, which is already in the game... lower your Monster Power level.
01/20/2013 03:10 PMPosted by Iskra


no your thoughts need nerfing moron.

BEST nerf in the world.


Your insults need buffing.


as your fail comebacks does to scrub.
You seems to have a major flaw here though...

1. You have cool downs or resource requirements on all high damaging skills. Since when crit is nerfed it will be substantially harder to do sufficient damage with resource generating attacks the only viable skills to use would be the high damage ones. This will absolutely tank play speeds.

2. Capping crit will lower DPS by a huge amount. Just look at what happens to your DPS when you only have 30% CC. This will make life steal ineffective for generating hp. This means LOH will be required, unless everyone goes 100% tank which is completely against what an ARPG should be.

3. More LOH is required, the more attack speed is required, thus making it the required stat on everything: you NEED LOH to proc to live, since you can't kill things fast enough if it doesn't.

4. Looking back at the first problem, you can't do any high damaging stats. You MUST now use at least one resource generator skill as your main attack and only occasionally pop off a high damaging attack. This will kill build diversity even more, since now you will be locked into a specific set of skills you must have in those slots otherwise you will die or have such low damage that it would be like back in May when nobody could do inferno.

Nerfing crit will not fix D3. It will create a mess of problems that idiots will then think can be fixed by more damage nerfs. CC isn't broken like IAS was, it is just a required stat like main stat and all res are.


There are plenty of possible solutions to balancing the game with a CC cap. Adjust cooldowns, add new damage-increasing affixes, change the ratio at which main stat affects damahe, reduce the LS reduction. What are your ideas for improving the gearing options, or do you think that this is as good as it can get?

"now you will be locked into a specific set of skills you must have in those slots otherwise you will die"
Welcome to D3.


Your insults need buffing.


as your fail comebacks does to scrub.


Man, you're dumb.

Bad insults, bad spelling, bad grammar, and you're too dumb to realize that it wasn't even a comeback. I'm not Paz.
01/20/2013 03:08 PMPosted by Aimless
Game was sissified and those builds that shine "on hit" mechanic came to front. They wernt OP in 1.0.2 they got wrecked mostly unless u had billions.


No one ran CM or WW builds in 1.0.2.. they mostly hadn't been discovered yet, and nothing close to the level of gear required for running them had been amassed yet in 1.0.2 except by a few famous web-streamers and botters.
They should just put a cap on DPS.
01/20/2013 03:36 PMPosted by Stud
Nerfing crit will not fix D3. It will create a mess of problems that idiots will then think can be fixed by more damage nerfs. CC isn't broken like IAS was, it is just a required stat like main stat and all res are.

If there is a stat everyone desire pretty much equally, then it's flawed to some degree.
That is true for main stats (although everyone doesn't want those equally, everyone within the same classes do), CC/CHC and yes, even All Resist (the obvious solution for AR would be to make individual resists decent alternatives).
I know Blizzard is hesitant to nerf crit due to the massive outrage the community would surely experience... but for all the same reasons blizz nerfed Attack Speed, crit has got to go. Right now crit is the single determining factor on whether a piece of equipment is good, or if it's just medicore. You could have all perfect double stat primary roll with awesome vit/resistance, etc.. but no crit and it's laughably bad.

The itemization is extremely one-dimensional in this way. To make matters worse, actual balance is effected. Crit trivializes the content, which is against the design philosophy of things supposedly being "very hard" in Inferno mode. Crit allows for cheese builds like sprint/ww and critical mass/wicked wind... which no matter how much Blizz claims they like these builds, you cannot look me in the eye and say it was the developer's intent for those skills to synergize in that way.

Right now Crit Chance needs to be given a hard cap of... 30% (30% may be way too high, but I say to nerf it to that level, and then see how it holds up, and if necessary, drop it down to 25% max)

Crit damage needs to have the values cut in half on all equipment in all slots, and emeralds need to do soemthing else other than crit damage in weapons.. take that away, nerf it out entirely.

See if the game doesn't get better. A lot of people will be angry for a while, but just like Attack Speed nerf, eventually they'll forget about it and move on.. meanwhile balance returns to the item market, so that more than just 0.001% of items are worth anything.. suddenly all manner of items are worth something to someone.

The Economy gets fixed, Itemization gets fixed, OP builds get fixed, and the game becomes something resembling what the team intended it to be, again.


100% agree.

1) It would fix PVP. The average budget DH glass cannon would go from 400K dps down to maybe 50K. Which is WAY better for everyone.

2) It would fix build diversity. People wouldn't just do crit builds. Seriously, who has seen a NON crit build lately? I haven't.

3) It would fix the economy. All these overpriced $9000 items would drop like a rock and people could afford them.
01/20/2013 03:57 PMPosted by Makina
They should just put a cap on DPS.


I can't tell if this is hyperbole, or not.. maybe you're trying to poke fun at my suggestion. I wholeheartedly believe that nerfing crit is the right answer for Diablo 3, and it's for all the reasons I've discussed... and at one time when Blizzard justified why IAS was nerfed.. I feel all the reasons they gave apply to Crit. But they apply to crit even more so, now, than they applied to IAS back then.

Very few people are actually offering up suggestions, at this point. I'm trying to help.
crit is here to stay. if Blizz does anything it will be adding affixes that can compete.
But blizzard didnt add a cap for IAS back then. Like they shouldn't have.

Just like they shouldnt add a cap for crit/crit dmg.

Crit/critdmg should surely be nerfed however, just like IAS really had to be nerfed back then.
A major issue with capping CC is that entire systems have to be overhauled. Monster power scaling has to be redone because possible damage capability is diminished. Skill coefficients has to be redone because the old values have now been unbalanced due to diminished crit rate. Attack speed is now required on every build, which lowers build diversity, since certain skills lend better to IAS than it does crit. So now you have to redo skills and runes which previously worked off of crit, for example HA Spray of Teeth.

See how this keeps going? This is a ton of work just to nerf one stat and what do you benefit out of this? Nothing. The game will still be tailored around farming efficiently, and devs will balance monster hp to keep that concept in place.

When balancing a game, you dont want to destroy in order to fix. itll likely end up disastrous or unfavorable
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