Diablo® III

[Build] DW XP/Loot Dashing Ninja Build

01/29/2013 08:03 AMPosted by gotaplanstan
False. Once you are at a certain DPS threshold you get more loot/hour doing higher MP in a high mob density route after getting 5 stacks because of the increased chance of mobs dropping multiple items. It's not hard to test. I get more rares per hour on MP7 with my Wizard than I ever could doing MP0 speedruns.

I'd be interested to see some of your proof on this. Or did you read it somewhere? Can you share a link with us?


I think there is too much RNG involved for anyone to reliably test this. Only Blizz could know if they are tracking all of our runs/drops. It probably feels like more/better items, but likely isn't. I saw a thread where someone had been tracking every drop, but again you would need thousands of people to all track their drops per hour or per monster and even then you would have the issue of different MFs and such coming into play. I think that most people agree at this point it is most beneficial to run through as fast as you can for exp and loot as long as you don't run so fast you are missing stuff on the ground behind you.
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Had about an hour of free time, so thought I'd try out this build, and IT ROCKS!! :D

01/28/2013 09:19 AMPosted by Nameless
When you do come across an elite / champion pack, the key sequence (assuming nothing is on cooldown and your spirit pool is pretty high) is DS to target, BF/FitL, SSS/FO and then WotHF/BF to kill what's still alive.


This is da bomb!!! So fun!! :D

@Joysze -- your welcome. Thanks for your (belated) appreciation -- I'm glad you found my first guide helpful. And yes, getting a pair of MS boots (with pickup radius) would be helpful too. You may lose some DPS and defence, but it won't be needed since you are running MP0. I actually have 3 pairs of boots that I swap around depending on situation. I have my "uber" boots (that are high DPS, high EHP, no MS), my MS boots (has some DPS, vit, res, armor, MS) and my MS + PuR boots, each getting progressively worse (defensively) but all reasonably priced.


Yeah. :D I have a pair of PUR boots hubby found me that I use for MP3 quick farms. Great dex, AR, poison instead of cold resist, BOO!!! (but I'm not complaining), but no mvt speed. I'll see what I can find to bid on with MS and PUR, and preferably high dex as well. :D

@Sinafae - Thanks for the note. While I haven't actually tested this, I'm not sure if you actually need any LS with this build. The kills happen so quickly, that health globes (especially with more pickup radius) and the occasional health potion might actually be enough to keep you alive for the whole run. Again, I should probably test this at home by dropping my LS fist and go higher DPS and see whether I can still do it without dying.

If anyone wants to test this with two non-LS weapons, let me know if it would still work. :)


I have a set of no LS Shenlongs my friend found me so I did a run with those, and had no trouble. The Relentless Assault does have 830 LoH though. Unbuffed DPS: 100k.

I also tested no LS or LoH by switching out the RA to WKL. I have almost 120LpSS with this set up and also had no trouble. I did have to put the LpSS to use (specifically, spamming Mantra) fighing a boss and elite group at the same time. Unbuffed DPS: 105k.

Of note: The LpSS was in effect both times with various spells usage.

01/28/2013 01:34 PMPosted by Nameless
One quick note that I should post here that is not yet in the main build description (but will probably be there soon) is to further the point that Silver32 made about DSing from pack to pack. The more packs you are able to string together without any pauses, the more monsters D3 would say you killed in their defined period of time, and from that, even more bonus XP. So the act of finding more packs to DS to after killing one pack without any break in action is a big challenge for me and you might want to see how many you can kill in a row. I think I maxed out at ~80 monsters killed in one d3-defined session (not sure) and the bonus was sizeable, but I'd love to see if I can get over 100.


I found this tougher in the Crater than Rakki's and Keep 2. When I do the MP3 quick runs, I find that Thunderclap works really well in getting the strings going. Although, losing the the AS and MS from BF might slow down this build? Or would the teleportation of TC coupled with DS make up for it?
Edited by Joysze#1528 on 1/29/2013 10:42 AM PST
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01/29/2013 10:28 AMPosted by Joysze
I found this tougher in the Crater than Rakki's and Keep 2. When I do the MP3 quick runs, I find that Thunderclap works really well in getting the strings going. Although, losing the the AS and MS from BF might slow down this build? Or would the teleportation of TC coupled with DS make up for it?

The thing that I've had problems with FoT/TC is that the teleportation is not all that consistent. Sometimes you teleport instantly, sometimes it takes a couple of punches. Perhaps it's because it only teleports on the first of 3 consecutive punches? I don't know... all I know is that I find it hard to rely on FoT/TC teleport for these kinds of purposes.

DS is much more reliable in that as long as you have something targeted, you are virtually guaranteed to be able to dash over. The rooting function may also be helpful in certain situations too. I also like DS because it has greater range of teleport (wished I could go full screen across, but what they give is good enough for me).

I think tinkering with the skills in this build may be fun as you see how you can incorporate elements of this build into your main one, or for lower MP level builds. Hope we can continue to increase build variety too! :)

In any case, I am glad that you are enjoying the build. Thanks for the feedback!
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@Bahnzo
I think this may be a case of knowing-it-when-you-get-there. I used to think like you too, after running higher MP levels for so long, doing a run like this can be a nice change of pace where deaths happen quickly and the challenge becomes speed and not just killing everything in sight. In terms of XP/loot thing, I'll just leave loot out of the equation and say that until 1.0.7 drops, MP0 will be superior in terms of speed/efficiency for something close to 80% of the monks for gaining XP if you get the "right" build. Only the highest tiered monks can farm at higher MPs for greater efficiency. I"m obviously not one of them, so this is what I've done so far.


And you are probably very right. I don't have the experience of running with a 100k DPS monk....So I'll just add that at a lower level, monks might want to use the MoC/OverAwe rune with the SSS/SA. My opinion is that it's the "Easy Button"...adding 48% more damage to 2310% damage? Yes please. It makes most elite mob trios disappear, and that's with my 55k DPS. You can swap it for the healing mantra you recommend. It seems to me there's no reason you should need to use a healing skill when running MP0.

But again, I'll totally thank you for the recommendation of WotHF. It seems that *every* high level monk I look at runs with FoT/TF, and I can't figure out why. It never seems to proc correctly....with the teleport feature never seeming to work properly. I was using Crippling Wave, but have come to realize that it's worth sacrificing the ability to hit 360deg of mobs to just what is in front of you.
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How exactly is this hard to test?

1 - Time a number of runs on low MP.
2 - Time a number of runs on high MP.
3 - Count rares for each run.
4 - Get median # of rares and time for each MP.
5 - Divide median rares by median time.
6 - Now you have an estimate of rares/min.

Is this too complicated for people or something? Back in my day, there was this place where you learned stuff. It was called "school" IIRC.

No need to sound so condescending dude.

The point I was trying to make (that he replied to) was, that you shouldn't be claiming something is true unless you have the proof to back it up. I don't think HOW to acquire said proof is in question. We're just looking for you to show your #'s, thats all.
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01/29/2013 10:50 PMPosted by Bahnzo
And you are probably very right. I don't have the experience of running with a 100k DPS monk....So I'll just add that at a lower level, monks might want to use the MoC/OverAwe rune with the SSS/SA. My opinion is that it's the "Easy Button"...adding 48% more damage to 2310% damage? Yes please. It makes most elite mob trios disappear, and that's with my 55k DPS. You can swap it for the healing mantra you recommend. It seems to me there's no reason you should need to use a healing skill when running MP0.

One of the things you will soon realize in our playing is that effects of a rune >> effects of the base skill. Some examples -- nobody uses BoH/BW for the healing effects of BoH, they use it for the damage buff of BW. In this case, I am using MoH/CB for the effects of the 3 spirit / second, not the piddly boost in LpS. I've actually explained the reasoning behind using this particular mantra in my description of the build.

01/29/2013 10:50 PMPosted by Bahnzo
It seems that *every* high level monk I look at runs with FoT/TF, and I can't figure out why. It never seems to proc correctly....with the teleport feature never seeming to work properly. I was using Crippling Wave, but have come to realize that it's worth sacrificing the ability to hit 360deg of mobs to just what is in front of you.

I won't go into too much detail here (since it strays from the point of this thread), but I encourage you to either do a forum search on your question (better) or create a thread asking about FoT/TC. The basic thing is that the proc rate has nothing to do with teleport, and everything to do with LoH and how it synergizes with SW/Cyclone. The haste modifier also makes it the best general spirit generator (discounting for runes for different skills). Again, if you have further questions, create a new thread asking the question, and someone will direct you to a good place for answers.

Now, for you, I will suggest this. With your lack of experience and understanding of the mechanics of the game, it would serve you well to ask questions about skill selection rather than interjecting with suggestions. It makes you sound like a know-it-all without basis of experience or knowledge. Hence, this comment:

01/30/2013 01:49 AMPosted by EmperorMao
You sound like a court-side fan telling LeBron James how to dunk.

I don't pretend to be LeBron of monks, but just take note of the sentiment of the comment. That is all.
Edited by Nameless#1537 on 1/30/2013 7:07 AM PST
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Nameless saw both of your threads and have them bookmarked for reference and really like them. One thing i'd like to ask if it's not too much trouble to add example sets bought off the AH and what your final numbers were for those sets. That would give a better idea on what the current cost vs DPS gain for someone might pan out. Thanks for the guides, I love the monk community!
Edited by Wulfgar#1770 on 1/30/2013 5:48 AM PST
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01/30/2013 05:48 AMPosted by Wulfgar
Nameless saw both of your threads and have them bookmarked for reference and really like them. One thing i'd like to ask if it's not too much trouble to add example sets bought off the AH and what your final numbers were for those sets. That would give a better idea on what the current cost vs DPS gain for someone might pan out. Thanks for the guides, I love the monk community!

I'm actually not the expert in the area of buying sample sets off of AH. It's not something I have had time to do - I have limited time with the game, and my preference has been to play the game and tinker with builds. My thread was basically a description of a gearing philosophy that worked for me to build an efficient monk with based on very limited funds. In terms of what you are looking for, search for Piffle's gearing guide, as his thread contains loads of sample sets that he and some others have built on a budget and might really help you out.
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And you are probably very right. I don't have the experience of running with a 100k DPS monk....So I'll just add that at a lower level, monks might want to use the MoC/OverAwe rune with the SSS/SA. My opinion is that it's the "Easy Button"...adding 48% more damage to 2310% damage? Yes please. It makes most elite mob trios disappear, and that's with my 55k DPS. You can swap it for the healing mantra you recommend. It seems to me there's no reason you should need to use a healing skill when running MP0.

But again, I'll totally thank you for the recommendation of WotHF. It seems that *every* high level monk I look at runs with FoT/TF, and I can't figure out why. It never seems to proc correctly....with the teleport feature never seeming to work properly. I was using Crippling Wave, but have come to realize that it's worth sacrificing the ability to hit 360deg of mobs to just what is in front of you.

Activating Overawe doesn't add 48% damage ... it adds 24%.

Faith in the Light adds 30%*. This is why Nameless pops FitL rather than Overawe, not to mention Blind is 10 spirit while your mantra is 50.

*It actually adds more than this, but that's neither here nor there.
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01/30/2013 08:03 AMPosted by Piffle
Activating Overawe doesn't add 48% damage ... it adds 24%.

Just to clarify (I know Piffle knows this, but this is for the benefit for those who don't), MoC/Overawe gives 48% monster defence debuff for the first 3 seconds after spam, after that, it settles in at 24%. Popping MoC/Overawe (@50 spirit) and SSS (@50 spirit) is a lot of spirit to spend if you are spirit starved during a speedrun. The extra 24% benefit for those 3 seconds is not worth it when you consider...

Faith in the Light adds 30%*. This is why Nameless pops FitL rather than Overawe, not to mention Blind is 10 spirit while your mantra is 50.

*It actually adds more than this, but that's neither here nor there

Again, just for the sake of further clarification for the benefit of others reading this thread... and if I'm not mistaken, FitL gives you 30% x APS damage buff. So if you are a typical DW monk, you are usually hovering around 2.0 APS, which gives you a ~60% damage buff for 3 seconds. However, if you are wielding a skorn with no IAS, you're sitting at 1.0 APS (I think), and the FitL buff is at the stated 30% buff.
Edited by Nameless#1537 on 1/30/2013 8:47 AM PST
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What are the minimum requirements with this build? I die so many times it gets frustrating!
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01/30/2013 11:03 AMPosted by Niels
What are the minimum requirements with this build? I die so many times it gets frustrating!

Personally, I think that your DPS is a little low for this build. I've run this build (or something similar) with my monk with a shade over 100K dps, and it was barely doable. You basically want your DPS to be at a level that >80% of the white monsters die upon impact with your SW/MoW - or at least, the amount of time it takes for you to run by them should kill them. At 78K dps, it might be too low for a couple of reasons:

(1) your SW/MoW is not killing whites quickly enough and
(2) your buffed SSS/FO is not doing enough damage to wipe out elites or champion packs in one shot

If you want to try something like this minus the speed component, you could swap out MoC/CB with MoC/Submission or MoC/Overawe and see whether the extra damage output will help compensate for your low DPS. The offshoot is that you may be losing some spirit regen, and so if you find yourself low on spirit, try substituting Quicksilver rune (reduces spirit cost of DS to 10 from 25) instead of WotFS (Increases MS by 25% for 3s after you strike). Problem, however is that you are reducing much of the speed component of this build (which is the reason d'etre for this build in the first place) in doing these two things, but it may still be an adequate MP0 farming build if that is your cup of tea.

Just note that despite the increased attack speed that WotHF/BF gives you, the spirit generation still SUCKS in comparison to FoT/TC or some of the other runes of that skill. So the more passive spirit generation you have, the better... to compensate for that. Losing 3 spirit/second for the purposes of damage may make this build not viable as a speedfarming build.

But yeah, see if that works.
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The thing that I've had problems with FoT/TC is that the teleportation is not all that consistent. Sometimes you teleport instantly, sometimes it takes a couple of punches. Perhaps it's because it only teleports on the first of 3 consecutive punches? I don't know... all I know is that I find it hard to rely on FoT/TC teleport for these kinds of purposes.

DS is much more reliable in that as long as you have something targeted, you are virtually guaranteed to be able to dash over. The rooting function may also be helpful in certain situations too. I also like DS because it has greater range of teleport (wished I could go full screen across, but what they give is good enough for me).


I haven't had time to test it with FoT/TC but will do so this weekend. I did find the rooting function very helpful. I have a feeling that once I get those MS/PUR boots, everything will fall nicely into place. :D

Anyhooo, I think this deserves to be on the first page for more monks to see... so back up it goes. :)
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THIS IS A HEAP OF FUN!!!

What a great build. I used my Innas helm with spirit regen so i had a bit extra which was great for plenty of DS!

Ran for 3 hrs and got just shy of 30mil xp p/hr (really good for me!) and that includes identifying 2-3 inventory's of rares per run lol. Pridy much running alkaizer btw.

Awesome work Nameless very enjoyable :)

Cleb
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Just to clarify (I know Piffle knows this, but this is for the benefit for those who don't), MoC/Overawe gives 48% monster defence debuff for the first 3 seconds after spam, after that, it settles in at 24%.


No, it gives a 48% buff in overall damage. Popping that and then seven sided strike deals a *HUGE* amount of damage.

Listen, my intent was not to argue, just to give an alternative. But it's obvious that alternative ideas aren't welcome in the old boys club. Enjoy your burrito.
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No, it gives a 48% buff in overall damage. Popping that and then seven sided strike deals a *HUGE* amount of damage.

Listen, my intent was not to argue, just to give an alternative. But it's obvious that alternative ideas aren't welcome in the old boys club. Enjoy your burrito.

It's interesting that you quoted only 1/4 of my post, but the real meat of it was below. please re-read http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7763317662?page=3#52 in its entirety to see why FitL (~60% damage buff) provides a better buff to SSS than MoC/Overawe (48% effective damage buff) for 1/5 the spirit. There is the option of doing both, but in doing so, for the monk that this build is designed for (those >100K dps unbuffed), it would provide DPS overkill for the mob and therefore wasted spirit. And in this build, wasted spirit leads to less movement speed, and less movement speed means less XP & loot per hour.

It is not that I don't welcome alternative suggestions, but it is that the suggestions that you provide do not fit the main criteria of the build (which emphasizes movement speed above DPS output), nor is it necessary for the type of monk that this build is designed for -- which I have attempted to explain the reasoning behind it. The suggestions that you are making changes the flavour of the build - almost like taking the tomatoes out of a spaghetti sauce. It can still work, but not the way that I have designed it.

At the end of the day, you are free to take from this thread what you wish and incorporate it into your build the way that you like in what works for you. I'm not here to convince you to do anything different - the most important thing is to enjoy the game the way you want to enjoy it. So thanks for writing in and making your view known.
Edited by Nameless#1537 on 1/31/2013 9:01 AM PST
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01/31/2013 06:12 AMPosted by Bahnzo
Just to clarify (I know Piffle knows this, but this is for the benefit for those who don't), MoC/Overawe gives 48% monster defence debuff for the first 3 seconds after spam, after that, it settles in at 24%.


No, it gives a 48% buff in overall damage. Popping that and then seven sided strike deals a *HUGE* amount of damage.

Listen, my intent was not to argue, just to give an alternative. But it's obvious that alternative ideas aren't welcome in the old boys club. Enjoy your burrito.

No, this is not correct. I'll let other argue about the semantics of whether it buffs your DPS or debuffs monsters ...

Mantra of Conviction/Overawe provides a flat 24% debuff to monsters while it is running. When you activate your mantra, you get another 24% debuff on top of this, up to a total of 48%. This means that you are only getting an extra 24% damage when you activate your mantra, NOT 48%.

48 - 24 = 24.

----

Anyway, I tried this build out for 3 runs last night (all I had time for). You can see the gear and abilities I was using in my profile.

Gear-wise I'm using a mix of my TR gear (mostly the spirit regen and PUR) and my normal high MP gear.

Since I have extra spirit regen on my gear, I was able to switch my abilities to damage based ones, so I'm using MoC/Submission and Sweeping Winds/Cyclone (I tried Firestorm too). I also am used to running TR without OwE or StI, so I swapped in Exalted Soul, thinking the extra spirit would help with flying around with DS.

It was actually a ton of fun swooping around with DS. Given my spirit regen and the Templar, I was basically able to use it as much as I wanted and never ran into spirit issues. One issue I did run into, which was a little odd, is that my SW/Submission was doing so much damage that I had trouble getting/keeping the 3x stack from WotHF going. That might be a lack of experience with it, but I dunno.

So most of the time I found myself utilizing the MS buff from DS. This wasn't much of an issue in really packed zones like Keep Depths 2 and most of Arreat Crater 2. But there were times in Rakkis Crossing/Fields of Slaughter (I think? whatever it's called) that I ended up walking around without a movement buff.

Interestingly enough you can actually DS to objects that you can't highlight with the mouse - stuff like tables in Keep Depths. I guess anything that you can destroy, even if you can't click on it, you can DS to.

My first two runs I used Firestorm. The first run I was all flustered and forgot to snapshot my SW with gear (heh heh, such a nub). I got around ~48 mill exp/hour that run.

The second run I got ~50 exp/hour but I ended up DSing under the floor part of the way through Keep Depths so that probably took a little off that number.

The third run I switched to cyclone and ended up with 59 exp/hour. That's a pretty good number, at the bottom of what I usually average for TR (usually range from 55-70, with most in the 60s range). There's definitely room for improvement in my own play too, getting used to DSing to everything in sight when possible.

So yea, definitely a lot of fun and definitely a viable alternative to TR. Good job Nameless :)
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