Diablo® III

The Economy Will Crash - Duping Up Daily

I hope thats true Celanian, but I think its due to the AH needing immediate mainentance. Theres alot of current posts about people having trouble with auctions.
Reply Quote
01/26/2013 07:01 PMPosted by necropuddi


Well I find it hard to believe that Blizzard would be so stupid as to allow account rollbacks when they are aware that people are using this to dupe items.


Until they get a better policy, they kind of have to.


But why? Nothing says that they have to give you an account rollback if you get hacked, anyway my friend couldnt get one, thats some double standards there.
Reply Quote
i have mixed feelings about dupes. they were wonderful in diablos past, but i also remember finding my own gear much easier back then as well.

the problem with diablo 3 is that blizz based the economy around an AH, but failed to keep the system from being exploited from the start. this makes it twice as hard for the honest players to get anywhere, because they will need a lottery drop to afford anything nice, even if they make farming a full time job, and if they dont win the lottery, the market is so poor, and the player base dwindling so low that nothing really sells.

the farm to buy on the ah concept is pathetic because of the disparity between the gold that drops to the gold required to buy anything decent.

if duping means i can get something nice for 200 mil as opposed to 1.2 bil, then bring it on. the economy was screwed since day 1, and i think some people are just afraid their virtual pixels will lose their over inflated "value".
Reply Quote
people that think the "market is poor" or that the player base is "dwindling" as justification for not being able to sell stuff are probably just selling bad items
Reply Quote
there will always be exploit like this no matter what. The only thing Blizz can do is to prevent further damage to the economy
Reply Quote
01/27/2013 03:36 AMPosted by pabrt
people that think the "market is poor" or that the player base is "dwindling" as justification for not being able to sell stuff are probably just selling bad items
no, its true. the whole system is flawed. people who were the first to play an+ go crazy sold tons of stuff and made lots of money. people who played casually find that the only way to enjoy the game is to not use the AH or not play at all. Bis items in the past sell for like 10k. Not cool for buyer or seller.
Reply Quote
what
Reply Quote
no, its true. the whole system is flawed. people who were the first to play an+ go crazy sold tons of stuff and made lots of money. people who played casually find that the only way to enjoy the game is to not use the AH or not play at all. Bis items in the past sell for like 10k. Not cool for buyer or seller.


every game had its flaws man, you cant expect it to be perfect. even if theres no auction house, flippers will always find a way to control the economy.

p.s. even life is unfair XD
Reply Quote
01/27/2013 03:17 AMPosted by Effinlag
if duping means i can get something nice for 200 mil as opposed to 1.2 bil, then bring it on. the economy was screwed since day 1, and i think some people are just afraid their virtual pixels will lose their over inflated "value".


You contradict yourself. If you believe farming to be relatively pointless now, duping will render it completely irrelevant. Yes, duping will lower the value of high-end items, which gets people excited, but it will also make everything beneath it worthless, making it impossible to get that 200 mil to buy the duped items. (Aside from buying gold)
Reply Quote
This game is so !@#$ed... Can Blizz set up an e-mail service letting us know when they have set up a "new" ladder so I can start playing this game again?
Reply Quote
I noticed today that I couldn't spot any duplicate listings in the AH. I tried selling a pair of bracers that were duped, but my listing didn't show up at all in the AH search and the copy already on sale in AH can't be bid or bought.Did Blizzard adjust things so that only 1 copy of an item could be listed at a time in the AH or am I imagining things?


I'm noticing a ton of auctions saying "expired." I wonder if it is related.
Reply Quote
I still see 5 of the same Fury's listed.
Reply Quote
When you list stuff, you really need to check 10 minutes later and see if it shows up on an AH search. I've had at least 2 items not show up which is essentially wasting an auction slot if you don't catch it.

There is also a problem with 'afterimages' where a cancelled auction still leaves a listing that can't be bid or bought. And of course many expired listings that still show up.

AH is very buggy at the moment.
Reply Quote
By releasing items at a slow rate, they maximize their profit.


They're also making it easier for Blizzard to catch them by doing this.

People need to understand that Blizzard doesn't ban dupers as they find them. They wait until they have compiled a list of several hundred (if not a thousand or more) dupers, and then ban them all in one big wave. They do this because they believe that it makes a statement to the community, and for the most part this "fear tactic" (for lack of a better word) works. People see the press release, see people disappear from their friends list, see all the posts on these forums and elsewhere of people saying they were banned, etc., and it keeps them from walking down the same path as the dupers.

So anyhow, by releasing slowly, Blizzard is able to find them much quicker because the digital trail is rather short, and it's easier to trace it back to the duper him/herself. Say, for example, they run a search on all items with duplicate IDs. It comes back that there are 6 Mempos in people's possession with the same ID number: #24356879. Then they run a search to see which of those people have had more than one Mempo #24356879 in their possession at any given time (since it's pretty rare that the someone bought the same dupe legitimately on the AH more than once). BINGO, it pops up that John Smith has had 6 Mempo #24356879 in his possession over the course of 5 weeks. On November 3rd he had 2 (the first dupe). Then they have to check to see if and when it left his possession. They trace his AH history and find that on November 4th he sold it for 1.5B. Then they have to do this for each and every instance of him having more than 1 Mempo #24356879 in his possession in order to have sufficient, hard evidence that this person is the duper (and not just, say, receiving duped goods from another, or that it wasn't a bug with the loot drop tables that caused the same kind of Mempo to drop from a particular mob - like a certain rare spawn or a boss mob - in which case John Smith would be innocent) and thus eligible for the ban list. He also happens to have many billions of gold in this account and it's being sold on the RMAH and funneled into a paypal account. They might even go so far as trying to shut down the paypal account (not sure if this part is possible or not, though).

Now imagine having to do this (which does take some time, because sometimes you do come across cases where it's not so obvious as to who the duper is or if it's even duping to begin with) until you have a list of close to 1000 bannable names. This can take months to compile such a list, and gives the impression that Blizzard isn't doing anything about it. Fact is, they probably catch a duper within a day or two (sometimes less), but they're "allowed" to remain until it's time to unleash the ban wave so they can make their statement. This also gives Blizzard time to watch the person to figure out exactly how they're duping the items so that they can fix the bug/exploit that allows them to do it.

People also need to understand that from a business standpoint, it costs money to hire people to weed through all this information and catch dupers, and there's no monetary return on that investment. It costs them to not only employ a person to do this, but once a duper is banned it's less gold flowing through the system from people buying the duped goods, less RMAH cuts that Blizzard gets from duped items and/or gold from sales of dupes being sold on RMAH, etc. So it costs them big time when it comes to real money to track down and ban dupers. And it can be hard to convince the higher ups in a corporation to allocate a sufficient budget so that you can stay on top of things. These higher ups don't play the game and they couldn't care less about how it impacts our gameplay as long as profits remain steady or on the rise. They key is being able to show those higher ups how not giving enough attention to the problem could lead NOT to an economic crash (because it can't and won't completely crash, it'll just bottom out, there's a reason there's a floor on how much it costs to buy gold), but to people leaving the game in disgust and spreading the word that Blizzard doesn't care about it's virtual economy or it's customers, thus inhibiting future sales (ie- expansion packs, future Blizzard products) and less people purchasing on the RMAH. And that's a much, much more difficult thing to do when going up against bean counters who only see the world in graphs and pie charts based on factual and provable information.
Reply Quote
01/27/2013 03:17 AMPosted by Effinlag
if duping means i can get something nice for 200 mil as opposed to 1.2 bil, then bring it on. the economy was screwed since day 1, and i think some people are just afraid their virtual pixels will lose their over inflated "value".


Its not over inflated. Its real market value. What someone will pay = real value. Items worth 1.2b right now are top 5 items. Meaning in the entire time since launch or 1.04, only 1-5 items have rolled those random affixes either that well or better.

That extreme rarity is where the prices come from. Out of the hundreds of thousands of players that want that item, only three or five players actually get to use one rolled in that manner. What happens when demand is massive and supply is miniscule in the real world? Price gouging.

There is a negative connotation attached to such a situation, but its merely the nature of a free market. Duping will flat out destroy this game for everyone. It doesn't improve any of the problems, and creates a ton more.
Reply Quote
^assuming that the economy isn't already destroyed.

More items on the AH by definition will lower value. Anyone who argues against that doesn't know what they are talking about. There are more items floating around, and in this market you can only spend so much gold. There is no incentive to spend more than you have to. Consumers are not stupid, they wont spend more than they have to. If there are more items and only so much gold that can be spent, open bids are definitely going to drop.

The only thing that I disagree with on Malakai's post is that just because a digital trail is short, it doesn't mean that it is easier to find a duper. The bigger a digital trail is, the more obvious it is that there is a duper.

I mean, come on. Seeing 6 duped items in an inventory versus 30, the 30 is going to stick out more, because there are more transaction id's with that identical item id in blizzrds inventory search. The digital trail is shorter if they release slowly over time, because usually there are fewer id's with the same number and fewer transactions spanning a longer period of time. They are more likely to fly under blizzard's radar. There are possibly billions of transactions and item ids that have entered the AH since this game was released, only duping a few times will reduce your chances of getting caught. I understand it is in blizzards best interest to hold off on punishing dupers because they stand to gain more that way, but I don't see that if you dupe fewer items you will more likely be caught. If you dupe the same item multiple times over a short period, you will stick out like a sore thumb.
Reply Quote
01/27/2013 10:39 AMPosted by Shandlar
if duping means i can get something nice for 200 mil as opposed to 1.2 bil, then bring it on. the economy was screwed since day 1, and i think some people are just afraid their virtual pixels will lose their over inflated "value".


Its not over inflated. Its real market value. What someone will pay = real value. Items worth 1.2b right now are top 5 items. Meaning in the entire time since launch or 1.04, only 1-5 items have rolled those random affixes either that well or better.

That extreme rarity is where the prices come from. Out of the hundreds of thousands of players that want that item, only three or five players actually get to use one rolled in that manner. What happens when demand is massive and supply is miniscule in the real world? Price gouging.

There is a negative connotation attached to such a situation, but its merely the nature of a free market. Duping will flat out destroy this game for everyone. It doesn't improve any of the problems, and creates a ton more.


Except this is a video game, not the real world.

Your real market value thing is also way, way off. 1 billion gold sells for roughly 280 dollars on the RMAH. By your reasoning, some players who happen to have multiple 1+ billion gold items would have characters worth 2500+ dollars.

I did a search for 1h weaps with ls and an open socket. I stopped counting after 27 items were found listed for 1 billion gold or more. Pretty sure more than 3-5 players are rocking 1+ billion gold weaps.

No, the economy has been screwed since day one. Remember when people were running around breaking vases in a4 and farming millions of gold per hour doing so? That immediately devalued gold and inflated item prices beyond what they were worth. Blizzard has done a piss poor job of keeping their economy from being exploited, unless they wanted it to be exploited so that the only realistic way for most players to gear up for beast mode was to use the RMAH.

Just because people are willing to pay for something doesnt make it valuable. Justin Bieber is worthless, but dumb little girls still line up to buy tickets to his shows and anything with his name/face on it. Maybe i grew up in a different time, where the word value actually meant something, who knows.
Reply Quote
01/27/2013 12:58 PMPosted by Effinlag
No, the economy has been screwed since day one. Remember when people were running around breaking vases in a4 and farming millions of gold per hour doing so? That immediately devalued gold and inflated item prices beyond what they were worth. Blizzard has done a piss poor job of keeping their economy from being exploited, unless they wanted it to be exploited so that the only realistic way for most players to gear up for beast mode was to use the RMAH.


It is impossible to exploit this market. No-one is forcing anyone to buy anything. All buyers are entering into their purchases voluntarily, and all players have an equal chance to bid on any and all items on the market. There is absolutely no exploitation being done.

01/27/2013 12:58 PMPosted by Effinlag
Just because people are willing to pay for something doesnt make it valuable. Justin Bieber is worthless, but dumb little girls still line up to buy tickets


This by definition is value added! Just because you don't see the value doesn't mean there is no value.

01/27/2013 12:58 PMPosted by Effinlag
Maybe i grew up in a different time, where the word value actually meant something, who knows.


Value in the sense of wealth perhaps. In a video game you are not creating any 'wealth' by farming for a new item as you would in the real world. In the real world if I harvest sand and make glass I am creating 'wealth' because the glass is worth more than the sand.

Does that mean everyone is dumb for buying my glass cause I'm charging more than the same mass of sand? Am I exploiting anyone dumb enough to pay my asking price? No, they are voluntarily trading me for my goods or services, just like those 'dumb' little girls paying Justin Beiber for his entertainment services. NO ONE is being hurt by any of these economic activities.
Reply Quote
Spot on.
Reply Quote
Im not talking about wealth. Ive met wealthy people who were poor, and poor people who were wealthy. Im guessing you are young, not just for believing virtual pixels that do not exist outside of this game have value, but for believing that those pixels when added up cost more than many people earn in a month, and that is their 'real' value. Its laughable and sad at the same time.

1 billion gold on the RMAH = a full work week at 8.50 cents an hour. You cant eat it, it wont keep the rain off you and your possessions, and it wont keep the lights on. You cant drive it around, and you cant wear it out in public.

My grandfather bought a vacuum for 50 dollars, and it lasted him 25 years. 50 dollars in diablo 3? Worthless after a couple patches. I made about 200 dollars on the RMAH when this game first came out, and now those same items would barely fetch a million gold each, just 7 months later.

Am i happy i made a little money off of this silly game? Yes, but i also feel like a scamster who sold people valueless pixels for their hard earned cash. In fact, if i had done what i did on this game in real life, it would be unethical at best, and borderline illegal at worst.

Edit: It is possible to exploit in game deficiencies to artificially inflate item values in a gold based economy. Like the old vase smashing routine, botting, etc.

This is a farming game, where you have to farm to use the AH. Realistically you will never gear a character off drops found on your own, which is why new crafting recipes are being added in the next patch. They are addressing the problem of the AH being the only feasible way to obtain decent gear.
Edited by Effinlag#1634 on 1/27/2013 2:19 PM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]