Diablo® III

MF, RNG, Loot, Itemization How It Became A Failure

This will be a long one, and I hope blizz needs to act fast on post like this, I'm sure theres a lot of threads like this in the forum.

First of all lets discuss MF

Magic Find is supposted to be the core stat of this game, this should be the "King of all Affixes", where its value is always on the top. Looking back in D2, MF was the most precious affix where some players use blue/magical items that allow them to have higher MF even it has a drawback on them.

Some right and wrong turns where MF is now.

Lets begin with the right ones.

1. MF ups the chances of finding better items, means you could get more blues/rares/legend if you have this.

2. MF ups the quality of a rare item by allowing it to roll more affixes on it.

Well about the two it is what it should be and I have nothing to say against it.

Now the wrong ones.

1. MF is capped

- This is total BS, in D2 it was never been capped, some players even have their inventory full of charms where if they found a unique item they just pick it up leaving it in their cursor and exit the game.

2. MF is easily acquired through Paragon.

- Another BS, a complete joke, item with MF affix have lost their values because of this wrong turn, in their solution for gear swapping made the most important affix became useless.

3. MF is broken, this may be related to RNG.

- In the past months, there are many threads were players saying that there is almost no difference on almost no MF chars and max MF chars, were they could jsut get the same rare/legends or even worst that those with almost no MF at all has more drops of rares/legends. Clearly something is wrong here.

Next is RNG.


1. A little bit related to MF

- Some players and even me had experience the mercy of RNG, where you could not get any legendary items even playing 4-8 hrs/day and it if you're really in bad luck it could take as long as a week before you get your next legendary.

2. Quest items

- Before 1.05 came, the staff of herding materials became pain the !@#, while some of my friends hunting chilltara on the ice caves almost took them a week, not just finding the cave, sometimes the monster is not there and also even if it is there there is no guarantee that it will drop the quest item.

Now the problem is about the keys and organs on creating the Hell Fire ring, some players played MP2 which in the case the keys or organs should drop 20% at all times, but what we see in the forums is just hilarious, some players already tried 20 runs, some are 30, and i even saw one about 50 runs complaining that there in no key/organ drops, it should be at least 1 out of 5 runs where we could get keys and organs. This is just MP2 there is MP3, MP4, MP5 and MP7 where it already be a huge success of drop but still "Got hit by RNG", I saw a post about a player running MP5 and he already made 20+ runs and still no keys, just imagine flipping a coin twenty times with all tails as a result, don't know if it is bad or good but with that streak maybe I could get laid on the 1st girl I saw that is a complete stranger.

Clearly again something is wrong with your RNG system, I even had a theory about RNG.

For example a player farming MP6 should get the key with the 60% chance.

A Key Guardian just died now the system will roll RNG.

1 Slot - RNG
2 Slot - RNG
3 Slot - RNG
4 Slot - RNG
5 Slot - Drop Chance

Where in the 5th slot there is

5.1 Slot - Failed
5.2 Slot - Failed
5.3 Slot - Success
5.4 Slot - Success
5.5 Slot - Success

It looks like before going to the actual drop rate you need to battle RNG first.

Next is Loot or Drop Rate, lets us check again the current drop tables.

Inferno – Act I

- iLvl 61: 23.9%
- iLvl 62: 12.6%
- iLvl 63: 4.8%

Inferno – Act II

- iLvl 61: 23.3%
- iLvl 62: 18.6%
- iLvl 63: 9.3%

Inferno – Act III and Act IV

- iLvl 61: 27.1%
- iLvl 62: 21.7%
- iLvl 63: 16.3%

See the figure above? That is what is wrong with this game, combine it with the AH. Look at the Inferno Act III/IV drop rates, look at those iLvl63 item, 16.3% yes 16.3%, dont you know how big it is? This iLvl 63 items are the top tiers items, this is the reason why the AH is flooded with iLvl 63 legendary items where a month just passed in 1.05 it is already difficult to sell legendaries with a good value since it is already flooded.

Lets go back in D2 let us remember those top tier items, Windforce, Grandfathers, Schaeffers Hammer and many more, even my self did not found one of those items, the closer one I remember was a Bul Kathos Colossus Blade. Top tier items in D2 are so rare that even white items of their type is hard to find, how many times you see a Hydra Bow (Discard the quality) in your 4-8 hrs farming everyday? 1 or 2 times maybe or if your lucky you could see 3-5 times on your total farming runs per day. What I'm really saying is that D2's top tier items are more or less 1% drop rate, that is the reason why if you found one of those items it gives a very good feeling, and its affix combination if very far from what we have now.

See what you did there with thouse figures, combine it with an AH and now you get an almost dead economy where the only one worth selling are the godly ones.

Finally the last and the beast of failure, Itemization

Lets say you found a rare Rune Sword, and you IDed it you got the following stat

1055.2 DPS
+20 Min Damage <----
+300 Min Damage
+350 Max Damage
+50% Damage
+1.4% Stun on Hit <----
Level Requirment -10 <----
Ignores Durability Loss <----

See those affixes with arrows, I call them the "Troll Affixes", who the hell wants those affixes, I rather get a blue weapon with good DPS rather than a rare/legend with those affixes. Who the hell wants Ignores Duraibility Loss? or Level Requirment? maybe those low level chars but once they reached level 60 what would be the use of that affix? or that 1.4% Stun on Hit which im sure you will die in PVP long ago before it procs.

Affixes that I think should be remove in the game.

Ignores Durability Loss - Remove
Minus Level Requirment - Remove
Status Chance on Hit - Remove or Improve make it a minimum of 5% and max at 10% on weapons/armor/ammy., so it will be used on PVP.
Life on Kill - Remove or Improve
MF - Sad to say its useless, might as well remove it so I can get better roll affix
Pick Up Radius - Should be removed or moved to excluse WD items.
Thorns - not really sure on how usefull this is on PVP, but as for now better remove it or improve.
Mix/Max (Single Affix) - Remove

I'm sure there are still some affix that I did not mention where better it is removed in the game.

Next to Itemization is the Class Specific Items

Once again you found a Rare Heaven Hand and a Stalker Cape, and then IDed it

Heaven Hand

+300 Min Damage
+350 Max Damage
+50% Damage
Increase Spirit Regen By 1 <---
+Socket

Stalker Cape

+150 Dex
+100 Vit
Reduce the cost of Cluster Arrow By 1 Hatred <----
+3 Sockets

First of all lets discuss the Heaven Hand, WTF is that affix doing there, might as roll it with another affix like LoH/LS/CHD and im sure that is a worth weapon, who even wants Spirit Regen today, its a big LOL. Next is Stalker Cape, the F is that affix, could I spam cluster arrow many times if I got a reducion of 1 Hatred on it. another big LOL.

This is what you fail at blizz, instead of giving as stupid affixes to roll with, there should be many good affixes the item must roll, what happened now is that there is just 5-6 affix worth it on an item and the rest are all trash. What it should be is that all affix are good so that the combination of affix has more variety than what people chooses now, Main Stat+Vit/Life+ CHC/CHD/APSD + Res All + Socket, that is mostly what is the affix now, others are trash like I said.

Also what I think should be made is that Class Specific Items will roll 1 extra affix for their class bonus, giving 6 max affix on weapon/armor + 1 class affix, and 7 max affix on offhands + 1 class affix so that, class specific items are must used more than the general sword/axe/mace where Wiz and WD uses, must be a joke in reality.

And last we discuss about Elemntal Damage/Single Res/All Res

Simply remove this from the game, specially the elemental damage on weapons, it is currently useless since players just stack All Res on their chars.

On the other hand Single Res/All Res should be remove in blues and rares, and should only be found on Legendary Items, what the current system offer is just Single/All Res is considered "Armor 2" where people stack them for another damage reduction. What should happened is that people feel that this is not mandatory for damage reduction where it should be just an additional bonus where players dont matter if they got high res on a specific element or on all element and would just use those legendaries with exclusive Single/All Res.

I know there are many threads like this, but when will blizz finally fix these problems, probably when people finally get over with D3 or something new ARPG appears and it might just get too late.
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Interesting read. Didn't agree with some of it, while some of it I did. However:

"Looking back in D2, MF was the most precious affix where some players use blue/magical items that allow them to have higher MF even it has a drawback on them."

This struck a note in my memory of how itemization and priority in items was a major function in D2. Of course ML and LL where somewhat game breaking/making mods. Looking back on this has made me wonder why items in Diablo 3 are a less specific build efficient as to being more of a global use. Interesting how that can lead to drive/thought of builds, while limiting them in every aspect. D2 felt more black white where pro/cons were more drastic while D3 is more in a grey area of less thought/drive for builds.
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I don't think anyone on the planet that's played their fair share of D3 can say the loot system is what they wanted. We all look and itemize the exact same way. Sadly the fluidity of the fighting although being real picky here could be touched up in places, is nice but it won't carry D3 on for years. The magics in the item hunt and building new characters, and trying new builds. This is a watered down ARPG for your casual gamer with an amazing art team behind it. The writers, and the itemization team are so far out of touch with what makes an ARPG its sad, really..sad. ;[ You read people saying D3 is flawed at its core, that's exactly what they mean.

I hate to come here and bash D3 because there is something that I enjoy about it but personally it won't keep the dungeon grinder in me happy for near as long as its prequels did. It's still shocking to this day that this is a Blizzard title.
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01/27/2013 10:09 PMPosted by ExRio
It looks like before going to the actual drop rate you need to battle RNG first.


drop rolls on mp lvl... mp5=50% and I confirm, there's nothing random about it, it's 50%.
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01/27/2013 10:36 PMPosted by Sylonce
It looks like before going to the actual drop rate you need to battle RNG first.


drop rolls on mp lvl... mp5=50% and I confirm, there's nothing random about it, it's 50%.


Clearly you did not get my point, I know it is 50% on MP5, how can you explain those people farming 20+ times and yet still didnt not get any keys/organs where it should have at least 1 out 2 chances. Just saying that RNG is broke for some reason.
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Posts: 203
lol @ removing pickup radius

its still an expensive as hell stat because so many people want it on their items

rest of the post, i agree with.

i suggest u edit out the part saying pickup radius is a WD-only affix so ppl will take u more seriously.
Edited by minkywhale#6584 on 1/27/2013 11:10 PM PST
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lol @ removing pickup radius

its still an expensive as hell stat because so many people want it on their items

rest of the post, i agree with.

i suggest u edit out the part saying pickup radius is a WD-only affix so ppl will take u more seriously.


Except for WD, only those botters are in use of pickup radius, also we can make them appear on legendaries only rather than now which cause 1 affix slot on all types of armor.
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Up for justice!
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Anyone that has spent atleast 1000h+ on this game can tell you for sure that RNG is broken. Proof of that is when you play on mp 8 with 450+mf and you find a rare ring or amu with 2 affix...Then you know RNG is broken. And trust me i have found a couple of them.
Edited by Angelus#2296 on 1/28/2013 5:28 AM PST
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3. MF is broken, this may be related to RNG. - In the past months, there are many threads were players saying that there is almost no difference on almost no MF chars and max MF chars, were they could jsut get the same rare/legends or even worst that those with almost no MF at all has more drops of rares/legends. Clearly something is wrong here.


I've ran with 400 MF and with 0 MF and I can tell you I cannot tell a substantial difference. I've found just as many Legendaries without MF as I have with full MF.

1. A little bit related to MF - Some players and even me had experience the mercy of RNG, where you could not get any legendary items even playing 4-8 hrs/day and it if you're really in bad luck it could take as long as a week before you get your next legendary.

I've had this happen too. And then when you do actually find something it still has a vast chance to be worthless.
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01/28/2013 05:23 AMPosted by Angelus
Anyone that has spent atleast 1000h+ on this game can tell you for sure that RNG is broken. Proof of that is when you play on mp 8 with 450+mf and you find a rare ring or amu with 2 affix...Then you know RNG is broken. And trust me i have found a couple of them.

HA.. I found one last night and I was like WTF ?
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01/27/2013 11:34 PMPosted by ExRio
Except for WD, only those botters are in use of pickup radius, also we can make them appear on legendaries only rather than now which cause 1 affix slot on all types of armor.


I make great use of pickup radius on my farming gear and I don't bot.

01/28/2013 05:23 AMPosted by Angelus
Anyone that has spent atleast 1000h+ on this game can tell you for sure that RNG is broken. Proof of that is when you play on mp 8 with 450+mf and you find a rare ring or amu with 2 affix...Then you know RNG is broken. And trust me i have found a couple of them.


All this means is that your MF is working fine. Without MF, those 2 property rares would likely have rolled as blues instead. No amount of MF guarantees 5/6 affix rares, it just ups the chance of finding them. It's still very possible to find 2 affix rares even with high MF.
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Ignores Durability Loss - KEEP
Minus Level Requirment - KEEP
Status Chance on Hit - Remove or Improve make it a minimum of 5% and max at 10% on weapons/armor/ammy., so it will be used on PVP.
Life on Kill - Remove or Improve
MF - KEEP
Pick Up Radius - KEEP
Thorns - not really sure on how usefull this is on PVP, but as for now better remove it or improve.
Mix/Max (Single Affix) - Remove


Minus Level Requirement on a 1k+ weapon? Yes please. You've leveled alts, you know this at least has some use.

Ignores Durability Loss saves a lot of repair money in the long run, also.
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Minus Level Requirement on a 1k+ weapon? Yes please. You've leveled alts, you know this at least has some use.

Ignores Durability Loss saves a lot of repair money in the long run, also.


A different of 1 affix can cause a weapon from thousans to billions, leveling alts is never a problem now, repair cost was never an issue now, or if your dying too much there is a problem on your dps and survivability.
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Anyone that has spent atleast 1000h+ on this game can tell you for sure that RNG is broken. Proof of that is when you play on mp 8 with 450+mf and you find a rare ring or amu with 2 affix...Then you know RNG is broken. And trust me i have found a couple of them.

HA.. I found one last night and I was like WTF ?


Level 60 ring found last night on on MP4:

+24 Min Damage
+20 Max Damage
+38 Poison Resistence
Empty Socket.

Yay. Not RNG, but Itemization problem.
Edited by BoscUlrich#1603 on 1/28/2013 8:44 AM PST
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Ignores Durability Loss - KEEP
Minus Level Requirment - KEEP
Status Chance on Hit - Remove or Improve make it a minimum of 5% and max at 10% on weapons/armor/ammy., so it will be used on PVP.
Life on Kill - Remove or Improve
MF - KEEP
Pick Up Radius - KEEP
Thorns - not really sure on how usefull this is on PVP, but as for now better remove it or improve.
Mix/Max (Single Affix) - Remove


Minus Level Requirement on a 1k+ weapon? Yes please. You've leveled alts, you know this at least has some use.

Ignores Durability Loss saves a lot of repair money in the long run, also.


Hmmm...
I don't consider repairs an issue anymore since a few patches ago. You normally pickup enough gold / sell items to more than cover costs of a few consecutive deaths ever so often.

Proc chance, however should be between 2%-5%. Any more and it will break in AoE/DoT situations.

Edit: Or it will be like Frost Nova fest in D2.
Edited by Strauss#1858 on 1/28/2013 7:48 AM PST
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Regarding MF:

I used max MF before the paragon system and the MF cap. It was sort of fun, but my buddy who used no magic find was making more money on the RMAH because he was able to kill faster on higher difficulties.

Now that paragon is here, I switched to a speed killing build and I am having much more fun because the best farming build is the one that kills the fastest and survives while doing it, which has application in other parts of the game besides farming. I was a bit bummed at first that my legendary-finding advantage was diminished by Paragon and the doubling of legendary drop rates, but the pros are much better than the cons.

The problem with stacking MF in D3 with no cap was that I sacrificed a lot of damage and survival gear bonuses, which are multiplicative. In D2 gear these bonuses were more linear, so using Nagelrings instead of SOJs was not a big damage loss. Using 20 MF rings in D3, however, is going to cost you a noticeable amount of damage. So they gave us a cap, which gives value to MF, but allows us to focus on the more rewarding stats.

It's not a perfect system, but remember that D2's MF systems had its kinks too. How about when your lower-MF teammate's merc got the killing blow on Baal, 100% negating your MF gear? How about when an ethereal Berserker Axe finally dropped (potentially for a runeword) but it was an unusable blue because you were wearing high MF? How about when your high MF finally causes a Tyreal's Might to drop, but the Hammerdin bot with pickit grabs it first?

Regarding RNG:

I still have yet to see evidence that would suggest Blizzard's RNG is off. I think this is an issue of psychology: people notice when things are going badly more than we notice when things are going well or normal.

I was recently helping my buddy get his Hellfire ring, and he was having terrible luck getting a Devil's Fang to drop on MP7. He had 7 Vengeful Eyes and 4 Writhing Spines with no fangs. There's only like a 1 in 5000 chance of that happening.

But guess what, the next 2 uber attempts we got a fang each time. The RNG evened out a bit with a larger sample size (and I bet you he doesn't remember whether an eye or spine dropped on those last 2 runs).

This happens all the time with elite affixes too. For every player, there's usually 1 affix that really screws with their build, like Reflect Damage. To these players, it seems like Reflect Damage occurs more than any other affix, because they fly through the packs that don't have it, but they die when a reflect pack comes. Then RNG gives them 3 or 4 Reflect packs in a row, and they come to the forums.
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Regarding MF:

The problem with stacking MF in D3 with no cap was that I sacrificed a lot of damage and survival gear bonuses, which are multiplicative. In D2 gear these bonuses were more linear, so using Nagelrings instead of SOJs was not a big damage loss. Using 20 MF rings in D3, however, is going to cost you a noticeable amount of damage. So they gave us a cap, which gives value to MF, but allows us to focus on the more rewarding stats.



The problem with the current items is it lacks a combination of damage+survivability+mf, unlike in d2 where items exist like skullders, tals set and many more where there is only a little draw back in damage/survivability.

Also why people swtich to DPS instead of stacking MF in D3 is becase of the broken MF, where as a 0 MF char could get the same number of legendary than than a max MF char even if they have the farming speed or efficiency.
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01/28/2013 06:17 AMPosted by AxeLord
Anyone that has spent atleast 1000h+ on this game can tell you for sure that RNG is broken. Proof of that is when you play on mp 8 with 450+mf and you find a rare ring or amu with 2 affix...Then you know RNG is broken. And trust me i have found a couple of them.

HA.. I found one last night and I was like WTF ?


It is actually a 4 affix ring/ammy where there is

+Min Damage
+Max Damage
+Min-Max Damage
+ 1 Affix

those 3 affixes are rolled into 1 line so it looks like there is only 2 affix but it really is 4, but still this kind of design is very poor, why is that single min/max damage exist is still a troll affix.
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01/28/2013 09:09 AMPosted by ExRio
The problem with the current items is it lacks a combination of damage+survivability+mf


Depth Diggers and Blackthorns pants always have MF. The former can roll the most damage in the game for WDs, the latter can roll the most survivability for WDs.

Because of these items, I will be topped off on MF by Paragon 94.
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