Diablo® III

Did a Run Without Spirit Vessel (results)

After wanting to switch out Spirit Vessel for the longest, since it never procs and I wanted more efficiency, I finally did a timed Alkaizer run without it.

Modest stats (I felt it was enough to try):
42.5k unbuffed dps
54.3k HP
4k armor
650-700 all resists

I ran a build that seeks to maximize 100% Acid Rain time, and was similar to the most efficient build on my SC WD: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#RVYUdT!ZYT!abZccc

It was pretty exciting and felt dangerous at the same time. A squishy WD, who can get completely blown up in an instant... I had to be a lot more alert than usual. The run actually took a bit longer than my usual runs, because I played more tentatively. Build worked good of course.

***
Keeps 2 gave me the light bulb that made me decide to switch back to Spirit Vessel after this run, as I didn't want to lag into a bunch of fallen maniacs and just die. My usual strat is to dump acid rain or zombie bears on first sight and run back (stick and move). But if lag causes them to not be where they are, it would be a !@#$ty way to die. Also, I don't want to be trapped in waller/firechains/vortex and have spirit walk on cooldown. So now, for me, Spirit Vessel is mandatory in HC. Unless I have a death pool going on or something. =]
***

This is for anyone who plays WD and wants to know someone tried it. Hope Lykotic sees this post!

TL;DR: Switched back to Spirit Vessel spec, but got it out of my system.
Edited by MrDeAtH#1112 on 1/28/2013 10:42 AM PST
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Nice job! Yeah, that looks like the ideal sacrifice build.
Just a couple things...

Do you really need pride? I mean, isn't grave injustice good enough to keep your mana at a decent count? To me, it just seems like Next of Kin is too good to pass up.

also

01/28/2013 08:40 AMPosted by MrDeAtH
After wanting to switch out Spirit Vessel for the longest, since it never procs


That's some weak logic right there. It's like saying, if you have 50k life, and you never went as low as 10k, might as well just have 40k life, right?
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Rip... on one of your future runs...
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^ haha Smithey77... i put Spirit Vessel back in as I concluded it wasn't worth it to run without.

@Bottle
I'll test Next of Kin, it sounds fun to keep exploding until all clear.

I like Pride because I want the build to support Acid Rain, which generates life (wanna get a LoH Skorn someday). I usually recast Dogs immediately after sacrificing. Also, I don't want to be in a situation where I need Acid Rain but don't have the mana.
Edited by MrDeAtH#1112 on 1/28/2013 10:03 AM PST
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"After wanting to switch out Spirit Vessel for the longest, since it never procs"

That's some weak logic right there. It's like saying, if you have 50k life, and you never went as low as 10k, might as well just have 40k life, right?


Yes, but isn't that the same as if you're considering a piece of gear, for example, that increases DPS (farm efficiency) by a considerable amount, but reduces your HP... you would weigh the benefit vs loss? And if the loss is acceptable then you would go ahead with the upgrade.

May be different in HC because life is invaluable (then survivability should never be sacrificed in theory).
Edited by MrDeAtH#1112 on 1/28/2013 10:02 AM PST
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SV gives you the option of playing more aggressively which makes runs faster. I proc Spirit Vessel all the time in Keeps 2, knowing that I can rush in with Jaunt and Angry Chicken without fear of dying by getting blasted in the door by 10 fallen maniacs. Other passives like Gruesome Feast may give me more dps but you're gonna play it safer knowing that one mistake is gonna cost you. I still debate sometimes about switching it because those big crits are fun to see, but overall I still think SV is better.
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Man, I always want to drop SV, but I never do.

I trigger it occasionally, but only when I run Keeps 2 after a few beers (I wouldn't run Keeps 2 without SV). Most of the time SV feels like a wasted passive that I desperately want to replace with grave injustice or gruesome feast.

But I am a coward at heart. And I love having extra lives.
Edited by Sunshine#1222 on 1/28/2013 1:08 PM PST
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01/28/2013 09:27 AMPosted by Smithey77
Rip... on one of your future runs...


First: there are WDs who have never run SV and have not died, Wabbit is the best example I know of: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Wabbit-6677/hero/18651602

I am currently fighting with my debate on SV or not. Essentially my SW is never on cooldown (Jaunt into enemies --> Cast Vengeful Spirit ---> Drop on Acid Cloud sometime ---> nothing of note on CD anymore)

I would love to gain Gruesome Feast in place of it, but since I fight monsters at a very close to melee range (habits from when I had Bears) I am hesitant to switch it out for the ~40Kish DPS increase on a full stack (8Kish per stack).

Unlike most I merely view SV as 15% HP increase with the CD reduction (nice but Grave Injustice makes that a non-issue). So is 8K DPS (at minimal) worth 6,750 life (currently) that is the question. Currently I am thinking it is not, but... perhaps later it will be.
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First: there are WDs who have never run SV and have not died, Wabbit is the best example I know of.


Whatever happened to Wabbit? Did he get a permanent forum ban for giving people directions to softcore?
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Quick question as this is a WD thread...

Does grave injustice effect the cool down on SV if it is proced or is it 90 secs regardless?
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I like to leave SV on because I am quite reckless. I do farm runs as quick as I can which means sometimes doing things I probably shouldn't and do occasionally proc and go "ok time to back off" lol.

It happens but I'll never take SV off. Also I feel if I d/c those 2 seconds might help me survive it :P
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01/28/2013 01:14 PMPosted by Swisha
Does grave injustice effect the cool down on SV if it is proced or is it 90 secs regardless?


Grave Injustice does not modify SV to my knowledge, have not had the opportunity to test that.

Wabbit's D3 forum access has been terminated, but he did post from his Starcraft account lately on here (about PoE). He is currently playing and streaming PoE.
Edited by Lykotic#1869 on 1/28/2013 1:25 PM PST
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Spirit Vessel is the best passive in HC. You would be mad to run without it IMO.
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Does grave injustice effect the cool down on SV if it is proced or is it 90 secs regardless?


Grave Injustice does not modify SV to my knowledge, have not had the opportunity to test that.



So you don't think so but you don't know for sure? I want to test it as well but you never want to proc SV just because lol. My friend said he would test in SC, but he's trying to get to paragon 100 so he has a one track mind at the moment. Just curious because my P/U radius is out of control, so if that would be the case my proc time for SV would be cut in half at the very least...
Edited by Swisha#1734 on 1/28/2013 1:35 PM PST
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01/28/2013 09:59 AMPosted by MrDeAtH
May be different in HC because life is invaluable (then survivability should never be sacrificed in theory).


Survivability is really all of it with all factors weighed in. DPS factors in to survivability, for instance - the faster you kill, the shorter the fights are, the shorter the fights are, the lower the odds something will happen that could kill you. Without mitigation, though, you might not live long enough for the fights to be that short, etc.

Basically, I'm just saying I think strict black/white 'offense/defense' view is a little too limiting. (not that you necessarily hold such a view)
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Thanks for all replies everyone. I just like testing so much that by the time i settle on a build, I'm 10 paragon levels higher.

Grave Injustice cooldown reduction doesn't affect the Spirit Vessel 90 second on proc as it's not a "cooldown" per se (I tested on SC). Also, standard protocol would be to afk in town anyway... don't want to tempt fate. =]

After seeing Lykotic's build, I've dropped Gruesome Feast in favor of Circle of Life, and the runs are smoother.

The main benefit of an insurance policy (Spirit Vessel) is allowing to play more aggressively, as someone said above. Because after taking out Spirit Vessel and running what I thought was a more "efficient" build, I ended up with ~10% slower clear time because I played more tentatively.
Edited by MrDeAtH#1112 on 1/28/2013 3:14 PM PST
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