Diablo® III

Ruby or Emerald in OS Chantodo's Will?

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I tried simulating +150 min, +150 max damage instead of 100% crit damage on Kieble's calc
http://www.unyieldingvalor.com/D3/calcTool.php

It's calculating a -13,564 DPS downgrade for me if I switch from a 100% crit damage emerald to a ruby.

I thought the ruby would be better if you had a lot of attack speed?
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its cause we have so much cc and not that much crit dmg, works better for monks since they dw
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So someone from TeamLiquid posted this chart to Reddit the other day, and although this chart was done primarily for black weapons, you can still see how the numbers would work out just an example of breakpoints for the usefulness of a ruby vs. emerald:

http://imgur.com/yOSWuhm

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394773
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if you got so much crit chance emerald would be the best choice.
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Thanks for the replies, all. And for the charts, Jen.
So my key takeaway is... that I don't have enough crit damage from the rest of my gear for the ruby to become better.
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We are very constrained by CD in our DPS equation; putting it wherever possible is pretty important.
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i dont think cc has anything to do with that,,,, demon hunter have around 60 cc with hand crossbow,,,, with that equation i should add emerald in calamity but it turns out ruby gives almost 15k more dps,,,,,
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I dont see how that chart can work as it does not calc attack speed or +% elemental damage
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04/10/2013 01:29 PMPosted by h4rdcore
I dont see how that chart can work as it does not calc attack speed or +% elemental damage


Uh, this is a necroed post. The explanation for the chart is in the link for TeamLiquid, and yes, it does let you eyeball attack speed. This is an old post.
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And attack speed doesn't matter.
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04/10/2013 01:41 PMPosted by Loroese
And attack speed doesn't matter.


I've heard this said a few times and have always been confused by it.

If you have a 1aps weapon that does 1000 damage per hit and you socket a 100 damage gem in it, its dps goes from 1000 to 1100.

If you have a 2aps weapon that does 500 damage per hit and you socket the same gem, your dps should be 1200, right?

That's a difference of 100 dps.

And if you add another, say, 50% ias from other gear then you end up with:

1.5*1*1100 = 1650dps for the first weapon and
1.5*2*600 = 1800dps

Now we have a difference of 150 dps. Right?

Or am I missing something silly?
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IAS and weapon APS doesn't matter when talking about ruby vs emerald, that's what I meant. The weapon APS and dps multiplier from IAS is the same for both assuming you're using the same weapon.

For example, you have a 1000 damage weapon, 1APS, with 100% crit and 100% CD. That means you do 2000 dps. If you add a 100% CD emerald to it you'll now do 3000 dps. If you instead add a gem that increases damage by 500, just to make the numbers work out, you also do 3000 dps, so the CD and +damage gems give you the same dps.

Now, what if the weapon had 2 APS? The weapon now is 1000 damage * 2aps = 2000DPS. your total dps with the emerald would be 6000 dps. If you use the +500 damage gem instead that's 1500*2 = 3000 DPS, and with the 100% CD that means you do 6000 DPS. Again, your dps is the same with either, thus the comparison of ruby vs emerald doesn't depend on weapon APS.

You can do the same with +IAS on gear but it adds the same multiplier to both cases therefore IAS doesn't matter either.
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The two weapons you are comparing aren't equivalent, tho. The 2nd weapon does twice as much dps as the first one, so the overall damage with ruby or emerald scales linearly.

I'm talking about the difference between 2 weapons that have the same base dps but where one has higher attack speed.

So:
Weapon 1: 1 aps, 1000 damage per hit, 1 socket, 100% crit chance, 100% crit damage bonus.
You've already done the math - its 3000 dps with an emerald and 3000 dps with a 500 damage super-ruby.

Weapon 2: 2aps, 500 damage per hit, 1 socket, 100% crit chance, 100% crit damage bonus.

Note that the base dps of weapon 2 is exactly the same as the base dps of weapon 1 - the only difference is weapon 2 hits twice as fast and half as hard.

With emerald: 2*500*3(hundred%) = 3000 dps
With ruby: 2*(500+500)*2(hundred%) = 4000 dps

Additional ias from other gear would just be a constant multiplier for both weapons and is ultimately irrelevant, but I definitely think base attack speed and damage do make a difference in how each gem performs.
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If you want high crit yellow numbers go with marquise emerald

If you want higher white damage and unfortunately your crit chances are below 55% and you're not using deep freeze, go with marquise ruby

If you want something that wont go wrong, go with marquise emerald

If you're archon, marquise ruby might give you higher paper dps.
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simulate it in d3up and find out it is going to be case dependant of ur cc/cd ratio.

I gained 3.5k dps with marq ruby using follower and deepfreeze not activated when using deepfreeze i loose 500dps
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The two weapons you are comparing aren't equivalent, tho. The 2nd weapon does twice as much dps as the first one, so the overall damage with ruby or emerald scales linearly.

I'm talking about the difference between 2 weapons that have the same base dps but where one has higher attack speed.

So:
Weapon 1: 1 aps, 1000 damage per hit, 1 socket, 100% crit chance, 100% crit damage bonus.
You've already done the math - its 3000 dps with an emerald and 3000 dps with a 500 damage super-ruby.

Weapon 2: 2aps, 500 damage per hit, 1 socket, 100% crit chance, 100% crit damage bonus.

Note that the base dps of weapon 2 is exactly the same as the base dps of weapon 1 - the only difference is weapon 2 hits twice as fast and half as hard.

With emerald: 2*500*3(hundred%) = 3000 dps
With ruby: 2*(500+500)*2(hundred%) = 4000 dps

Additional ias from other gear would just be a constant multiplier for both weapons and is ultimately irrelevant, but I definitely think base attack speed and damage do make a difference in how each gem performs.


It sounds like you're trying to compare ruby in one weapon to emerald in a different weapon, which is not what i'm talking about. I'm saying for a given weapon, if you want to know if ruby or emerald is better, then the APS and IAS doesn't matter, and my example proves that.

APS and IAS do impact how much dps you gain from each gem but has no impact on which increases your DPS by more.
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It sounds like you're trying to compare ruby in one weapon to emerald in a different weapon


No I didn't.

You showed: emerald vs ruby in a 1aps 1000dps weapon. And emerald vs ruby in a 2aps 1000dps weapon. These are 2 different weapons with 2 different dps.

I showed: emerald vs ruby in a 1aps 1000dps weapon. And emerald vs ruby in a 2aps 500dps weapon. These are 2 weapons with the same dps.

You example proves that if you make base dph (damage per hit) constant and change base aps and base dps, then the effect on each type of gem is the same.

My example proves that if you make base dps constant and change base aps and base dph, then the effect on ruby improves vs the effect on emerald.

So a lighter, faster weapon should gain more from a ruby than an emerald. The main reason our chant set doesn't is because we also get a hefty dph boost from our source (making us a mid weight fast weapon). But as Deva pointed out above, a Calamity wielding DH does better with a ruby, even with a 60% crit chance.

tl;dr: we're both right in a way, I guess.
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I guess I don't understand the point you're trying to make. It sounded like you weren't agreeing with what I was saying, but are using different examples.

The point I was trying to make is the actual APS of a weapon or IAS on gear makes no difference if an emerald is better than a ruby for that weapon. It's true that the damage of a weapon makes a difference, so the dps of a weapon makes a difference, but the actual APS never plays a direct role in which gives you more dps.

Also, APS and IAS changes how much dps you gain from an emerald or a ruby, but again makes no difference to which is better. If you gain the same dps with both, then adding IAS to gear won't change that both give you the same dps. It will change how much dps they give, but that dps will be the same for each. Weapon APS is the same, but I've probably been repetetive enough.
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