I normally don't see anyone at 3.33 w/o terrible CC/AR/HP/armor/dps so I had to check it out and when I did I almost spit my cola up...disgusting gear dude!
Well you win Diablo, not much more to go from there unless you want to experiment... pure min/maxing talking maybe 1 upgrade every 2 months. Well actually this mass duping might help you out if they stop duping mid-tier stuff for armor and only caring about weapons :P
Yea Jay, his gear is digusting, and he's a great chap to talk too as well.
As to OP's question I normally run at 1200LOH whist running 300k+ DPS. Low LOH can be used if you don't mind microing some fights(RD.....). Do I want more? Hell yes... but with my current gear setup atm its really hard to find it.
I plan on crafting Amulets on release of patch 1.07 to get a OP LOH ammy. If I can get a amulet with 800+LOH for a total of 2000LOH and still use 365kdps(buffed) I'll be near on invincible.
Edited by Aphraell#1269 on 1/27/2013 3:35 PM PST
Luckily, I don't drink cola, so I had nothing to nearly spit up. That is the pinnacle of CM awesomeness.
If it makes you feel any better...
Yea Jay, his gear is digusting, and he's a great chap to talk too as well.
I would say around 1 bill should get you close to something that has 700loh and some combination of affix you like.
At 1.6bill spent you would on average
have would have 1 with [CD, CC] and [LOH] and [ASI]
However you would have had like 16 [CD, CC] and [LOH]
However you would have had like 16 [CD, CC] and [ASI]
However you would have had like 16 [CD, CC] and [AR]
Cost to roll ammy 180000
chance for [CD, CC] 0.019094, cost 9360000
chance for [CD, CC] and [ASI] 0.001755, cost 102600000
chance for [CD, CC] and [LOH] 0.001758, cost 102420000
chance for [CD, CC] and [LOH] and [ASI] 0.000111, cost 1628280000
chance for [CD, CC] 3 from [INTVIT, ALLR, ASI] 0.000004, cost 48387060000
chance for [CD, CC] 3 from [VIT, INTVIT, LIFE, LOH, ALLR, MINMAX, ASI] 0.000119, cost 1517400000
chance for [CD, CC] 2 from [VIT, INTVIT, LIFE, LOH, ALLR, MINMAX, ASI] 0.002040, cost 88200000
chance for [CD, CC] 1 from [VIT, INTVIT, LIFE, LOH, ALLR, MINMAX, ASI] 0.010073, cost 17820000
chance for [CD, CC] 3 from [VIT, STRINT, STRVIT, DEXINT, DEXVIT, INTVIT, LIFE, LOH, ALLR, PhyR, MINMAX, ASI] 0.000707, cost 254700000
chance for [CD, CC] 2 from [VIT, STRINT, STRVIT, DEXINT, DEXVIT, INTVIT, LIFE, LOH, ALLR, PhyR, MINMAX, ASI] 0.005578, cost 32220000
chance for [CD, CC] 1 from [VIT, STRINT, STRVIT, DEXINT, DEXVIT, INTVIT, LIFE, LOH, ALLR, PhyR, MINMAX, ASI] 0.014644, cost 12240000
brims hit like 20k today alot of people liquidating to play POE it seems. Makes the cost if you lock in all supplies like 157k today.
Edited by RulerEric#1854 on 1/27/2013 4:25 PM PST
Hahah thx Eric, I have my stash of materials already from along time ago. I think some people would be physically ill if they just new how many commoditites I do have stored.
I can't wait for patch 1.07, to me its finally something worthwhile close to end game that I can farm towards.
Plus I can keep a few different spare amulets for different specs, my WD and my enchantress's over all my characters.
At a certain point, SNS really starts to be overrated in my honest opinion.
The damage your Shards put out compared to the trouble you have vs. reflect really isn't worthwhile.
Regular SNS but with Crystal Shell instead of shards is like 50-100k actual DPS difference, and it makes me be able fully tank, with no trouble at all:
Horde + Reflect
Reflect + Electrify
I do need to micro if I meet Horde + Reflect + Electrify, but that's it.
I have just under 800 LoH
217k dps, 860 LoH, 750 AR and 5100+ armor, 45k hp
swap my Nats ring to my other nats ring give me:
216k dps, 1320 LoH, 685 AR and 5200 armor, 45k hp
then swap my BT pants give me:
216k dps, 1320 LoH, 750 AR and 5200 armor, 37k hp
the 2nd setup works best for me, kinda think of going full max hp (like 80k+) with 1300 Loh and leave mitigation at 550 AR and 4500 armor...
Actually the amount of Loh you require is inversely proportional to your mitigation value.
-response to OP
Its just the next lvl for edps which requires other stats.
To climb at a certain point, it is more effective/cheaper to raise mitigation and go shards over getting more paper dps at a lower multiplier.
Yea I'm of the same opinion Niko, as my DPS increases I struggle to balance the LOH required. So now I run Shell and use Glass Cannon as my 3rd passive. I die less and seem to be doing just as much DPS.
A few months back, I ran with 1500 LoH. Well, it turns out that I really didn't need that much. And I'm one of those players that's really anal about not dying in any circumstances.
I'm at 750 LoH now and feel that the rate of recovery is good. As long as you have good mitigation, high health (over 50k), and can position with RD packs, you should be fine with 700+ LoH. If you have 30k health, then you need a lot more LoH because you need to heal almost instantly. The trick was high health and good freeze strength.
For PTR, I picked UA because it solved my cooldown problem. Before on live, I had around 70cc, 20 apoc, 2.90 aps so my teleport cooldowns were low. This gave me the "2nd life" feature because once I felt my life was in danger, I just teleported out of any situation, even when I just teleported a second earlier. With UA, it gives me that piece of mind and I can teleport at leisure.
The whole goal of both ventures was to raise my dps. I realize that not many wizards farm mp10, but with the new xp bonus changes to 1.07, there might be a new incentive to start. I'll give you guys a heads up: DPS matters, big time. You need a minimum of 350k dps to farm there efficiently. LoH is not a problem. Surviving is not a problem. It's DPS that's the problem.
I have always thought Loh Requirements are only dependent on your mitigation.
Health pool has nothing to do with it.
Can someone please confirm or correct me. =)
@Picha / Ossian / Jay /Aph
Thanks! I'll still getting used to life above 3.35. Part of the reason is probably because I transitioned from a dps build at 325k unbuffed (but dying to RDs despite the 1200 LOH) to a tanky build at 5300 armor, similar AR, more LOH and 68k hp at about 3.06 APS (using BT pants and Zuni chest) before this. The tanky build was particularlysweet because I then knew what Shandlar felt like ie. invulnerable lol.
Having accomplished that, I decided to push CM as far as it could be developed and I had to substantially regear to compensate for loss of Vit and LOH on BT pants and AR from the Zuni chest. DPS not really an issue when you're targetting faster APS.
The control now is excellent and the LOH is generally sufficient at around 250k dps. It also depends on playstyle and mine is to stick around.... sometimes beyond what my gear can take. Hence my preference is to stack more vit because of this, and I would still like to get closer to 60k and squeeze mitigation where I can. Even taking into consideration getting to paragon 100, it's driving me nuts that I will be short of 5k armor hahahaa. Another issue is even though the set-up has 20 APOC and my CC is decent, because of casting speed and/or critter movement/invulnerability shield, I've had a couple of instances where the well was suddenly dry; therefore some casting discipline and accuracy is also recommended. I like this build but having said that, the gearing requires very unique items. At 1 point of time, I didn't think I could find the pieces I needed.
As such, my general advice is to stick just above 3.01 and be tanky. But generally, one would have to go IAS wand instead of OS wand for dps. If IAS wand is used, as many have pointed out, your breakpoints are more easily hit at the cost of dps (which ironically reduces your mitigation requirements). The main key of the IAS wand is that this allows you to go Zuni chest and BT pants in which case LOH/life/breakpoints won't be an issue and you could actually get a decently high dps. Addicted built a nice set and he is now a sturdy 5k armor, above 800 AR, 3.01 APS, 200k dps with 54k hp (with Nat's set) using an IAS wand.
Ultimately though, it depends on how you like to play CM and which style suits you. I have my personal preference but Shand's tanky, Decablo's DPS and Aph's creative builds are all equally viable and require a mind-boggling amount of gear consideration. I just happen to be the fastest substantive gun in the West (in my case East ^^).
PS: Aph has probably half the amount of natural resources on the server lol.
Hey Charlatan, one of the things I found out is that your freeze strength improves much better with higher cc route than the aps route. Have you tried comparing 70cc with 3.01+ aps? Try it on a single running elite or even diablo (boss) and see if there's a difference.
MJ love of cc motivated me to test it out and I'm seeing a lot of benefits with high cc over high aps, but not sure why.
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