Diablo® III

Skorn??

A lot of the barbs doing MP10 carries are using skorn and HoTA what makes this better then DW? Or are the DWing barbs just less vocal? Is Skorn HoTA just cheaper? More efficient at higher MP? What's the deal?
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Skorn builds are generally superior to dw-ww against one or two targets. HotA and Rend tend to work very well in the uber fights, and especially in the case of Rend, 2-h gives significantly higher damage output in almost all cases. It's a closer call with HotA, but it's cheaper to get high damage through HotA with a Skorn than with dual wielding.

Generally dw-ww is still the most efficient for general farming and will provide greater AoE damage, even on MP10 if you have the gear for it. (Skorn ww isn't bad either if you have the budget for it)
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 1/28/2013 11:30 AM PST
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So general high MP farming stick with DW but if main goal is high MP ubers skorn wins for cost vs effectiveness?
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I recently switched from dual wield (+0.25 Echo + Sword) to a LS-skorn.
I have absolutely maxed APS (9% APS in every slot, even chest). The only APS slot missing is Legacy Zuni boots.

TLDR: DPS is about the same between comparable Dual Wield and Skorn.
Each hit is weaker with Dual wield, but you proportionally swing faster. And, vice versa for Skorn.

There are 2 advantages to Skorn. Firstly, it's MUCH cheaper than comparable dual-wield setup.
Secondly, if you have sufficient APS, you are capable of much greater burst damage than with dual-wield setup.

With the advent of Marquise Rubies, I predict that Skorn builds will be amazing.
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01/28/2013 11:32 AMPosted by dcbawden
So general high MP farming stick with DW but if main goal is high MP ubers skorn wins for cost vs effectiveness?


I don't think so. Skorn gives high DPS but it's a pain to maintain WotB. You have to spend a fortune to get enough attack speed to be efficient with Skorn. DW gives high DPS and insane fury generation. But good dual wield weapons are incredibly expensive. SnB means less DPS and moderate fury generation, but enormous damage mitigation. To make decent DPS with SnB, you have to spend a lot. Bottom line: they all work really for HotA if you can afford great gear, but having used all the setups for many hours, I can't say one is clearly best.
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Bash instigation. Fury problem solved. Easy Perma WoTB for those lacking in attack speed
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And even that is really only needed in the Siege/Kulle fight. The other two provide a lot of easy fury generation as they are. (especially ghom)

It's also indisputable that Skorn yields higher Rend ticks than S&B or dual wield ever can, which means higher healing. There's no cut and dry answer, but Skorn gives a lot of positives which are particularly well-suited for uber fights, and there are clearly a lot of people having success with it.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 1/28/2013 12:07 PM PST
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01/28/2013 12:02 PMPosted by RAiN
Bash instigation. Fury problem solved. Easy Perma WoTB for those lacking in attack speed


At the expense of 24% DPS from Bash - Punish. Also, people with low attack speed will not be able to maintain WotB because they will not be able to spend fury quickly enough. Unless they are spamming BR, which makes for low effective DPS because you get so few HotA strikes before you have to start Bashing again. I don't think there's any good way to use a Skorn with low attack speed at high MP.
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Bash punish is reserved for those who have enough attack speed. Yes u can maintain perma wrath with little to no attack speed with a skorn. i know this because i started off with near zero attack speed.

Rend Hota hota hota Bash and repeat. trust me its not hard with the instigation rune.
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01/28/2013 12:24 PMPosted by RAiN
Bash punish is reserved for those who have enough attack speed.

Do I have enough?
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I use HOTA D/W. I Have a Skorn 1400 with 190CHD (but no LS) and I feel with dual wielding, I pump out more DPS compared to 2H Skorn, over longer fights (3-6mins). I am able to keep up WOTB 100% on all uber events. I am able to keep up 5 stacks of Frenzy [Maniac] on 100% while getting off 7-8 HOTA with Overpower [Killing Spree] here and there depending on crit procs. I guess YMMV, depending on playstyle, group setup, etc etc.
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Bash punish is reserved for those who have enough attack speed. Yes u can maintain perma wrath with little to no attack speed with a skorn. i know this because i started off with near zero attack speed.

Rend Hota hota hota Bash and repeat. trust me its not hard with the instigation rune.


It's pretty hard, IMO. It's no problem as long as you have at least one target standing in front of you. But when that target is SB, he picks you up and you have to scramble to gain/spend fury. When that target is ZK or Magdha or ranged elite, and it runs away, you're scrambling again. When you are traveling between packs... good luck. The problem is that it's really, really hard to keep WotB timer low. I find it to be a demanding and annoying play style. There is so much more margin for error and so much more fury cushion with higher IAS.
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Love HOTA build for uber... very effective

also use SOJ hota for this doing critical hits over 2M damage
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what you want to do imo is to be able to get the stats required to be able to use a non LS ias skorn (1.11) and substitute that with a ik belt and bloodthirst passive. To do this and be able to farm mp10 ubers successfully id recommend 200k unbuffed d3progress dps and 800k+ unbuffed d3 progress ehp. Alternatively you can substitute the ias skorn with a high end LS skorn + witching hour, which will give ur relatively similar dps, actually a bit more then ias skorn, but i personally prefer the ias skorn ik belt bloodthirst combo. Either way aim for 1.5+ unbuffed ias. Both setups(ik belt+ias skorn) (LS skorn+witching hour) are superior to do high mp lvl uber farming than dw setups, and with the proper ias and skill set, perma wrath is easily obtained.
Edited by Joch#1760 on 1/28/2013 5:12 PM PST
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01/28/2013 05:08 PMPosted by Joch
Both setups(ik belt+ias skorn) (LS skorn+witching hour) are superior to do high mp lvl uber farming than dw setups, and with the proper ias and skill set, perma wrath is easily obtained.

super-interesting.

What about IAS skorn + Witching hour, and only using Bloodthirst?
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I recently switched from dual wield (+0.25 Echo + Sword) to a LS-skorn.
I have absolutely maxed APS (9% APS in every slot, even chest). The only APS slot missing is Legacy Zuni boots.

TLDR: DPS is about the same between comparable Dual Wield and Skorn.
Each hit is weaker with Dual wield, but you proportionally swing faster. And, vice versa for Skorn.

There are 2 advantages to Skorn. Firstly, it's MUCH cheaper than comparable dual-wield setup.
Secondly, if you have sufficient APS, you are capable of much greater burst damage than with dual-wield setup.

With the advent of Marquise Rubies, I predict that Skorn builds will be amazing.
holy cow, nice set up man
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^^ did you just not refer to yourself in the 3rd person for once?
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01/28/2013 05:08 PMPosted by Joch
Both setups(ik belt+ias skorn) (LS skorn+witching hour) are superior to do high mp lvl uber farming than dw setups, and with the proper ias and skill set, perma wrath is easily obtained.


As far as I know, all the guys who compete for world record kill times for ubers use DW. Also, DAKKON tested DW vs. Skorn with his insane gear and my recollection is that he found Skorn to be competitve but not better.
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one thing for sure, skorn rend wrack face on pvp, whereas onehander rend sometimes tickles
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