I think this is a recent change, maybe even that they did on purpose to start testing apoc synergies. Something happened in 1.07 to make it easier on ranged wizards, but since you cannot really program what a ranged wizard and a CM wizard has for skills maybe they just changed the entire CM equation instead of messing with skill's proc co-efficient for the 100th time.

It's definitely a 1.07 change, because I did the same test for a different reason in 1.06. And I didn't see any "double procs".

Anyways, I think they even said themselves that they are not particularly keen on adding more hidden game mechanics.

And now they are adding a completely intransparent modifier to parts of existing mechanics just to avoid changing proc coefficients gain? I really hope that's not true.

Interesting results apo. So how far did you repeat the test? What I feel I'm missing from the simplified "timeline" is how often you're getting APoC (ie what was your average return) and what the temporal dynamics look like. For example, what is the situation immediately prior to when the "2" apoc return events happen. Do they always follow a previous half-second gain (either "1" or "2"). I'm try to get a sense for whether previous half-second APoC "crits" are correlated in some way, in which "2" events only happen if they were immediately preceded by another half-second APoC return.

For both tests I looked at about 90 seconds of channeling. I'll do some more for the 6 APoC test, because I really really really want to see a proc that gives me less than 4 AP.

I did not focus on the actual number of procs. Because this is something that varies heavily. I think in my tests it was something around 6 or 7 during 90 seconds (counting 2 AP as a single proc).

At 5% crit I'd expect a total of 90*2*0.05=9 crits.

So that's okay I guess. But it's not a large enough sample size to draw any conclusions.

And no, there was only one situation in which a proc was directly preceded by another one. Usually there would be quite some time in between them. Which is not surprising, because I intentionally lowered my critchance to 5%. Analyzing the videos is much more comfortable when there is some time between two crits.

Because if I understand it, technically we shouldn't see ANY "2" apoc return events. You're only getting 2 ticks per second with Ray of Frost at 1aps. And with a proc rate of 1/3 and 3APoC, the return should only be 1 tick per half-second period. The presence of any "2" apoc returns definitely suggests something is bugged.

That's exactly right. "2" is absolutely impossible in our previous model.

But it gives us a lead. The only two scenarios I can think of, in which a "2" return for 3 APoC is valid are

a) Proc coefficient of >1/3

This would be a different proc coef than the one for LoH - which definitely is 1/3.

Also, it can't be 2/3 or bigger, because that would lead to returns of 2 only or 2 and 3.

Only with a coef between 1/3 and 2/3, the calculated AP return per crit is 1.x and the actual AP returns would therefore be 1 and 2 in a certain ratio. This I verified in 1.06. With 7 APoC, I would get returns of 2 and 3. Because 7*1/3 = 2.333

BUT if this is true, I can't see 4 AP only at 6 APoC. Because constantly getting 4 AP means a proc coefficient of 2/3. And that doesn't fit the 3 APoC test in which I did NOT constantly get 2 AP.

So I really need an AP return of less than 4 @ 6 APoC for this option to make sense. Additional tests with different APoC Values could then tell us the exact proc coef being used.

b) Bug / hidden mechanic for increasing AP returns

This would have to be something new which is unrelated to proc coefs and follows it's own rules.

Obviously I wouldn't know how it works exactly. But I imagine a separate, possibly varying multiplier to the proc value (as opposed to tick frequency or proc chance).

And as sad as it sounds: If it can be proven, that's more of an explanation than anything we have so far.

I will definitely do some more tests with different APoC values to see if I can find more evidence for one of the options.

02/27/2013 03:14 PMPosted by

Loroese Are you seeing a LOT of AP returns from your APoC? As in more than is expected based on your crit chance? Not the amount of AP returns but the frequency.

See above. Not really, but it's also something I don't really want to get into right now. Looking at crit chance and proc frequency could prove if there's something wrong with the crit RNG or tick frequency.

But I think the unexpected Ap return values are enough to screw things up on their own. Could be the same on CM. Who says we're not getting 2 seconds cooldown reduction most of the time, instead of 1? That would explain a lot.