Diablo® III

Chain of Torment

I was playing the Chain of Torment skill and I was surprised how well with Marked For Death->Mortal Enemy it was generating Hatred at higher MPs. It did a better job than even my Bat Companion at generating Hatred since enemies stuck around longer. I was generating massive Hatred to feed a pretty good barrage of Hatred Spenders. It worked fantastically well to generate Hatred with the Bat Companion when I played with a CM/WW on MP 10 and didn't use Vault (I know that is sacrilege). The ability to unload Cluster Arrows at a fast interval without Vengeance at higher MPs was certainly novel with my Calamity. I haven't seen too many people use it in this manner and thought I might share the strategy since it certainly has potential in group play for any DH and could be used anytime for tank DHs.

As a side-note, it was also interesting that I could ensnare enemies with cold damage from my SOJ since Chain of Torment doesn't convert the attack to any damage type. I was able to enjoy cold damage without using Hungering Arrow and could instead try to lock enemies down with Bola Shot.

Has anyone else tried this strategy out yet?
Edited by tekkazerox#1174 on 1/28/2013 9:51 PM PST
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Seriously, no one has ever tried this? Chain of Torment with Mortal Enemy is a decent alternative to the Bat Companion especially in team games.

EDIT: Only thing that I can think of that may be skewing it is that I am abusing the fact that enemies tend to stay in the chains longer since I am using a cold SOJ to keep them ensnared.
Edited by tekkazerox#1174 on 1/29/2013 9:06 AM PST
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does each sentry fire count as an attack on an enemy (generates 3 hatred?)
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I would have to test if it is 1:1 ratio but I doubt it even if the rune says "Attacks you make against the marked target generate 3 Hatred." I say that because the overall proc rate for skills is 0.75. My hatred regeneration was really good. To boot it actually does damage unlike the measly Bat Companion and you have control over what it hits (no setting off a goblin at higher MPs without your explicit knowledge)

This strategy is not competitive for lower levels of play since everything dies too fast. However, I am finding it very compelling alternative when playing MP7-10. If you have any LOH it becomes even more compelling since you are double dipping with Hatred Regeneration and getting massive sustainability as well. It works just fine with Gloom too. I can't completely face tank MP7-10 but I am finding I am having a much easier time managing my resources. I imagine since the chain tick rate is independent of IAS that Manticore users would definitely enjoy it to gain decent Hatred Regeneration (granted the Chain does not Critical Hit or else it would be OP with Nightstalker and general damage).
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interesting, I'll try it out tonight while key farming.

what's the overall strategy for mob placement, movement and such?
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I typically try to Vault a Chain directly behind the selected enemy and then Vault back with Tumble. Then as I stutter step I keep the enemy inside the chain. Another strategy if using two chains is to go for a cone shape setup so the enemy is more easily hit. I find a cold SOJ has been more helpful than I originally thought since it makes dancing around my enemies easier.

If you fight with a CM/WW wizard your strategy becomes even more simple against ubers.
Edited by tekkazerox#1174 on 1/29/2013 9:55 AM PST
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I'm going to try replacing the bat with the chain. I'm thinking the added damage from the sentries will be a bonus. I already use MFD in higher MP so this might work out
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That is why I thought this was a viable strategy since I have seen many well respected Demon Hunters already packing Marked for Death and the Bat Companion when doing key runs and ubers. Tweaking the two might get a much better return on Hatred Regeneration, especially with Manticore since the Chain's ticks are divorced from APS. I don't use a Manticore so the last part is completely conjecture, but feels reasonable to me.
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I've been using mortal enemy since I converted to calamity about a month ago and I agree it's way better then the bat companion. I use it doing uber and lately being expirementing with different build. Ill try this one later, I have 2 slots that I can swap out
Edited by DaRkCroNo#1494 on 1/29/2013 10:34 AM PST
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If you are really ambitious and good with stutter stepping or have a CM/WW, you could drop Vault and add Shuriken Storm to abuse the fact that enemies are locked down and that Shuriken Storm can further provoke Mortal Enemy as well.

I still prefer Chains myself since you don't have to get that close to enemies to abuse it and the Chain has a higher proc chance to boot.
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so I tried this for 15 mins or so. What I can say so far is that yes, you'll get more hatred regen than bat when fighting elites. + it looks extremely cool.
However it does take more work (placement, movement, and making sure you MFD the right mob).

my preliminary verdict is that this will rock for ubers, since you dont have to spend your time switching the MFD target. for key farming I'm not convinced yet, will have to do more testing. this is with my manti.
now that I got my hands on a calamity I'll do some testing with it on PTR also and will report back.

all-in-all, I think this combo (MFD+chains) was a nice find!

o/
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does it also proc nightstalker? Because then it would keep you topped off completely with Gloom, Nightstalker, and M4D
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@Veritech: I am glad you like it Veritech. I was definitely intending the ubers in mind with this strategy.
@Oscar: You can't critical hit with the chain so the answer is no. If you could the 0.75 proc rate would be BIS.
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Doesnt the calamity M4D override the mortal enemy when it procs? or am i wrong there?

also, on a side note, for those of you that don't know, CoT flashes with gloom.

for instance, pop gloom, then lay down the CoT. you will get healing from it for the duration the sentry is up =). Same with shuriken cloud

I love using CoT w my calmity + custom engineering passive. Just absolutely amazing healing ability , just get a little bit of LoH and you will be good. Also does damn good dps
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M4D from calamity is applied in conjunction with any other M4d Rune as far as I know. you may not SEE both marks over the targets head, but you do gain the abilities off of them. I use Grim Reaper, it definitely stacks.

I've been messing with this chain business after chatting with Veritech and being inspired. It does not suit my play style and it is an utter pain to use against ranged elites (which also happened to get teleport ability). Almost 0 chance of getting those targets to stand still against the chain if I didn't stun lock them into it.

Still, GREAT find. I love to see original thinking like this
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@Oscar: I am glad you tried it out. Did you try with a Cold SOJ? That might help a little bit to keep them within the Chain longer. I do not think it is something completely revolutionary for regular farming but would be really good against ubers when you need to pile the damage on while say a CM/WW locks them down. I have a very good HOTA barb and my goal is to be able to have an alternative when farming with my CM/WW twin.
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I just did the MP10 ubers with this strategy (Conviction Monk, HOTA barb, and CM/WW wizard). It worked very well with everyone but Ghom/Rakanoth. The chain is just too small to stay outside of Ghom's fumes some of the time. It is doable but certainly a royal pain. With practice, I am sure I can get better results. I can certainly say I stand in the camp that wishes the radius on the chain was a little longer (10-20 extra feet in game is all that would be needed to make it really really competitive). Otherwise, I was very pleased with the chain and it is certainly a cool way to fight the ubers.
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With ubers and a high end CM/WW Wiz, both ubers should be completely stationary with almost no gas clouds forming at all. Then it's just a matter of setting up camp with your Sentries and then having at it with BOTH Ubers in one straight line. OMG. Imagine the unstoppable amount of traps or cluster arrows you could endlessly fling.
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Sure Oscar! But that means the CM/WW is pandering to us. They cannot and should not do that. If you noticed, I had a HOTA barb in my party. A fantastic CM/WW will let Ghom fart his clouds until the wizard can get Ghom and Rakanoth on top of each other so the HOTA barb can use Smash on both of them. The act is just an inconvenience that could get a DH killed when a bunch of clouds form on MP 10. The AI does not always cooperate when the party attempts to trick them to get on top of each other.

What I did to overcome it was to Vault right by Ghom and Vault out. Then I could try to find a decent area with the limited range on the sentry chain. You only need one chain to out do the Bat by an impressive margin with a CM/WW. I was never in danger of dying but was still alarming if I got hit by the poison cloud. Using the chain is still worth it, since I was launching a nearly non-stop barrage of Loaded for Bear. I cannot imagine what I could do with Cluster Bombs when I try next time.

The only times I got myself killed on the uber runs is when I tried to get greedy and lay down multiple Sentries against a few electrify elite packs and issues resulting from lag. I suggest care with those beasties, since it can get grisly if you do it wrong. :-P
Edited by tekkazerox#1174 on 1/29/2013 4:41 PM PST
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so I used this against ubers tonight, with a CM wiz and using a calamity. I think it helps maximize dps (non-stop EB).. we did MP9 and finished all 3 ubers in 11 mins.

In a normal situation though, it's really a gimmick and not worth it I think. definitely will be testing it further. going up against a firechains elite is really fun lol

o/
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