Diablo® III

Why D3 Players dont' have to fear PoE

http://beta.xfire.com/games/d3

as you can see the PoE open beta didn't do anything at all to the d3 activity.
since there are more poeple playing PoE my guess is most PoE-Player quit d3 long ago and didn't look back like every old diablo1/diablo2 player i know.
the d3 player base buttomed out.

left are casuals and people making money by selling items to casuals.
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xfire is unreliable and is just a speculative figure.

not saying i have any reliable sources.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
12290
Posts: 9,916
Diablo 3 is back in the top ten on Xfire.

It also is number 2 in its genre on Amazon. That includes games with much more "content," like GW2.

That's not too shabby for an ARPG that's been out for over nine months.
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Diablo 3 is back in the top ten on Xfire.

It also is number 2 in its genre on Amazon. That includes games with much more "content," like GW2.

That's not too shabby for an ARPG that's been out for over nine months.

That's pretty horrid for 10 mill sales and produced by a multi-million dollar triple A company since 1995.
Shabby is pretty accurate.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/29/2013 3:02 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Hunter
12290
Posts: 9,916
Diablo 3 is back in the top ten on Xfire.

It also is number 2 in its genre on Amazon. That includes games with much more "content," like GW2.

That's not too shabby for an ARPG that's been out for over nine months.


That's pretty horrid for 10 mill sales and produced by a multi-million dollar triple A company since 1995.
Shabby is pretty accurate.


Lol, no it's not.

You're obviously emotionally invested in Diablo failing, but despite your attempts to spin it otherwise, it's thriving.

Which is incredibly fascinating. One would think that with all the bashing D3 took since release, it would be at the bottom of the heap. But it's not. It's doing very well both sales-wise and in player activity.
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No one uses Xfire, drama quen. And even if they did, path of exile is at #6, so you're basically saying more people are playing PoE than D3.
Edited by Valius#1710 on 1/29/2013 7:51 PM PST
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No one uses Xfire, drama quen. And even if they did, path of exile is at #6, so you're basically saying more people are playing PoE than D3.


I dont use xfire as well but ^[this person] wins

http://beta.xfire.com/games
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Posts: 2,810
01/29/2013 08:06 PMPosted by TheCursed
No one uses Xfire, drama quen. And even if they did, path of exile is at #6, so you're basically saying more people are playing PoE than D3.


I dont use xfire as well but ^[this person] wins

http://beta.xfire.com/games


Not really. He was in such a rush to drop that schoolyard insult he didn't notice OP said more people are playing PoE.

01/29/2013 12:52 PMPosted by Quen
since there are more poeple playing PoE


You guys are getting in such a rush to put D3 down in any way possible you end up turning on each other.
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I dont use xfire as well but ^[this person] wins

http://beta.xfire.com/games


Not really. He was in such a rush to drop that schoolyard insult he didn't notice OP said more people are playing PoE.

01/29/2013 12:52 PMPosted by Quen
since there are more poeple playing PoE


You guys are getting in such a rush to put D3 down in any way possible you end up turning on each other.


I ment that Valius successfully pointed out the flaw in OP argument. (regardless which side he/she was on).

However OP is correct in that current D3 players would not be greatly affected by PoE's release because the motivations of both players from both sides are different. D3 players will still continue to endlessly grind hoping for that lucky drop. In fact with less players flooding the market the devs might be forced to increase drops.
Edited by TheCursed#6888 on 1/29/2013 9:07 PM PST
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01/29/2013 09:06 PMPosted by TheCursed
I ment that Valius successfully pointed out the flaw in OP argument. (regardless which side he/she was on).


What, "no one uses xfire, drama quen"? That's an obviously incorrect statement if taken literally and incorrect even if it's not taken literally. Even if xfire stats can't be used as a representative of the entire population, it can, arguably, be used as a representative of a certain type of player for certain games. It also has enough of a history to compare numbers between two game that are on their charts (not much of a history, but it's there).

I've never put a whole lot of stock into xfire numbers but I'm not foolish enough to dismiss them as completely meaningless either. Frankly, it would take a comment less derpy than "no on uses xfire, drama quen" to convince me otherwise.
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01/29/2013 09:36 PMPosted by Ringo
I ment that Valius successfully pointed out the flaw in OP argument. (regardless which side he/she was on).


What, "no one uses xfire, drama quen"? That's an obviously incorrect statement if taken literally and incorrect even if it's not taken literally. Even if xfire stats can't be used as a representative of the entire population, it can, arguably, be used as a representative of a certain type of player for certain games. It also has enough of a history to compare numbers between two game that are on their charts (not much of a history, but it's there).

I've never put a whole lot of stock into xfire numbers but I'm not foolish enough to dismiss them as completely meaningless either. Frankly, it would take a comment less derpy than "no on uses xfire, drama quen" to convince me otherwise.


I think the important point made (what i was focused on) was "path of exile is at #6, so you're basically saying more people are playing PoE than D3." Not "no one uses xfire" nor the play at OPs battle tag.

Looking at the list PoE is #6 while D3 is #10. Some D3 players might consider that cause for alarm. Of course players can argue that PoE is a new game so its numbers can drop over time (as usual). Either way telling people that they have nothing to fear because they are #10 on a list where the alternative is #6 is hardly logical.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
12290
Posts: 9,916
01/29/2013 09:49 PMPosted by TheCursed


What, "no one uses xfire, drama quen"? That's an obviously incorrect statement if taken literally and incorrect even if it's not taken literally. Even if xfire stats can't be used as a representative of the entire population, it can, arguably, be used as a representative of a certain type of player for certain games. It also has enough of a history to compare numbers between two game that are on their charts (not much of a history, but it's there).

I've never put a whole lot of stock into xfire numbers but I'm not foolish enough to dismiss them as completely meaningless either. Frankly, it would take a comment less derpy than "no on uses xfire, drama quen" to convince me otherwise.


I think the important point made (what i was focused on) was "path of exile is at #6, so you're basically saying more people are playing PoE than D3." Not "no one uses xfire" nor the play at OPs battle tag.

Looking at the list PoE is #6 while D3 is #10. Some D3 players might consider that cause for alarm. Of course players can argue that PoE is a new game so its numbers can drop over time (as usual). Either way telling people that they have nothing to fear because they are #10 on a list where the alternative is #6 is hardly logical.


Did you even read the OP? He is knocking Diablo 3 and the people who are still playing it, claiming that all the true gamers left long ago. Granted, it's awkwardly written, but that wasn't meant as a pat on D3's back.
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Did you even read the OP? He is knocking Diablo 3 and the people who are still playing it, claiming that all the true gamers left long ago. Granted, it's awkwardly written, but that wasn't meant as a pat on D3's back.


I didn't realize we have to choose sides(team d3 vs team poe) =.=

I just said that i agree that D3 players have no reason to fear PoE. Just that the reason/example (xfire) was not a good supporting reason. If you argue a point, you cant provide contradictory supporting data.
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http://beta.xfire.com/games/d3

as you can see the PoE open beta didn't do anything at all to the d3 activity.
since there are more poeple playing PoE my guess is most PoE-Player quit d3 long ago and didn't look back like every old diablo1/diablo2 player i know.
the d3 player base buttomed out.

left are casuals and people making money by selling items to casuals.


For someone who deleted their characters and haven't played since May of 2012 you still seemed to be obsessed with D3 by making threads about it.


http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Quen-2904/

1. OP is playing on eu server.
2. OPs' (and almost everyones) account is better than yours
3. Your post is irrelevant to the topic
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01/29/2013 09:49 PMPosted by TheCursed
I think the important point made (what i was focused on) was "path of exile is at #6, so you're basically saying more people are playing PoE than D3." Not "no one uses xfire" nor the play at OPs battle tag.


There is no flaw. If you want to consider PoE is #6 and D3 is lower as a flaw (it's not), then OP said the same damn thing making Valius' "point" irrelevant as it was restating what the OP said.

01/29/2013 10:07 PMPosted by TheCursed
If you argue a point, you cant provide contradictory supporting data.


There is no contradictory data posted in the OP. He linked to the D3 stats on xfire. There was little change from what was recorded previously (and in fact actually went BACK UP) after the PoE open beta. That is exactly what OP said. PoE's open beta had no affect on current D3 gamers. The xfire stats support that premise. The rankings of the 2 games have no bearing with regards to the OP's initial point.

His ranking statement was regarding WHY the open beta had no affect: the people playing PoE had already quit D3.
Edited by Ringo#1617 on 1/29/2013 11:20 PM PST
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Lol, no it's not.

You're obviously emotionally invested in Diablo failing, but despite your attempts to spin it otherwise, it's thriving.

Which is incredibly fascinating. One would think that with all the bashing D3 took since release, it would be at the bottom of the heap. But it's not. It's doing very well both sales-wise and in player activity.

Emotionally invested in Diablo failing? Sorry but i've already invested into Diablo and its = to its success but that doesn't absolve it of being crap or shabby. Collector's Edition here.

Stay fanboy more plz.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 1/29/2013 11:31 PM PST
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01/29/2013 11:16 PMPosted by Ringo
There is no flaw. If you want to consider PoE is #6 and D3 is lower as a flaw (it's not), then OP said the same damn thing making Valius' "point" irrelevant as it was restating what the OP said.


Keep in mind that the argument is that D3 players have nothing to fear from PoE, how can OP link a source material that could show that PoE is better than D3 in any way whatsoever. The only similarity between OP and Valius is that their preference towards PoE. Just because 2 person share the same view and use the same source, they dont necessarily both argue correctly.

The fact that D3 is rated lower than is PoE is overlooked (or omitted) by OP and can be used to invalidate his argument. Before using any material for arguments, one must do proper research so that it doesn't backfire on said user. You can be correct but still argue incorrectly.

Even if we assume that the data is not contradictive, it still doesn't conclusively show that D3 is not affected by PoE because of the drop on 22-25. In fact the date Jan 11 seems to stand out more.
Edited by TheCursed#6888 on 1/29/2013 11:44 PM PST
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01/29/2013 11:43 PMPosted by TheCursed
Even if we assume that the data is not contradictive, it still doesn't conclusively show that D3 is not affected by PoE because of the drop on 22-25. In fact the date Jan 11 seems to stand out more.


Gonna knock this out first since it's easy. There is no possible way short of developer intervention that we will ever get conclusive evidence one way or the other so lets not even go down this route. Moving on.

January 11th is an outlier. There may be some significance behind it, there may not. I don't care enough to really research it as it doesn't really matter in this case.

Edit: Regarding the small drop on PoE's release. I don't think you would find any rational person that would've claimed there would be zero change. It's a free game in the same genre being made available to the public for the first time. However, it was not a drastic change nor an unexpected one. The stats continued in the same fashion as previous weeks and has actually gone back into the same range of playtime as seen in other weeks.

Perhaps after this coming weekend we'll have a clearer idea of whether or not that small drop was permanent or temporary. As of right now, we can't really tell but I think it's more than fair to say it was not a significant change nor was it unexpected.

Keep in mind that the argument is that D3 players have nothing to fear from PoE,


Correct.

01/29/2013 11:43 PMPosted by TheCursed
how can OP link a source material that could show that PoE is better than D3 in any way whatsoever.


Easy. By showing some amount of evidence that a sampling of the current player base of D3 was not signficantly affected by PoE going open beta. PoE being better than D3 does not matter. PoE could be the greatest game ever created and D3 could be the worst and it wouldn't matter if the current playerbase of D3 had no significant changes brought about by PoE's release. The stats on xfire support that notion.

01/29/2013 11:43 PMPosted by TheCursed
The only similarity between OP and Valius is that their preference towards PoE. Just because 2 person share the same view and use the same source, they dont necessarily both argue correctly.


What does this have to do with anything? Lost in translation maybe?

01/29/2013 11:43 PMPosted by TheCursed
The fact that D3 is rated lower than is PoE is overlooked (or omitted) by OP and can be used to invalidate his argument


No, it can't because as I stated above, one game being considered better does not matter if the inferior game's population is not affected by the superior game. As far as xfire stats show, D3 was not significantly affected therefore PoE being a better game is irrelevant for this argument.

01/29/2013 11:43 PMPosted by TheCursed
Before using any material for arguments, one must do proper research so that it doesn't backfire on said user. You can be correct but still argue incorrectly.


Indeed. However, the given evidence on xfire completely supports the OP's statement at this time. If you have some other valid information, feel free to introduce it. As it stands right now, there is nothing that has been brought forth that contradicts what the OP has supposed.
Edited by Ringo#1617 on 1/30/2013 12:34 AM PST
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Easy. By showing some amount of evidence that a sampling of the current player base of D3 was not signficantly affected by PoE going open beta. PoE being better than D3 does not matter. PoE could be the greatest game ever created and D3 could be the worst and it wouldn't matter if the current playerbase of D3 had no significant changes brought about by PoE's release. The stats on xfire support that notion.


Except that the stats dont conclusively show the lack of change in D3. Maybe if the sample provided data 1 week after PoE's release(the graph only shows up to 27th). From the sample there is also a drop in D3 game time. So at best the data does suport OPs argument but not strong enough.

The problem is that the same source (xfire) also shows that despite being beta released a week ago PoE has overtaken D3. This doesn't mean PoE is better. However it will bound to cause uneasiness among D3 players which goes against the topic, reassuring D3 players.

Yes OP can use xfire as an argument but by involving xfire, OP actually caused more harm than good. Usually if an argument has the risk of backfiring, we should refrain from using it for the sake of getting the point across. This is why lawyers must be careful when deciding what to reveal and what argument to use/avoid. That is the difference between arguing correctly and not.

In short; OPs lost is that his/her main argument (xfire) is used against his/her. Valius's win is that he found a potentially dangerous flaw in OPs argument before the oposite side.

Edit: I have to go. Please dont take it personally. I have nothing against OP or you. Its just a small critique for the future in choosing a solid polished argument in comparison to risky ones. Also i had some time to kill and there's nothing good to read online =p
Edited by TheCursed#6888 on 1/30/2013 1:17 AM PST
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