Diablo® III

plague bats - pvp

Spirit Barrage. Several other WDs and myself saw the massive potential for this rune in PvP. We bought high SoJs with SB % add ons when they were cheap. It's nice to see how our investment is blossoming.

It will remain one of the most versatile nukes in our arsenal because of its tracking abilities and damage second to bears (varies by scenario).

Other than that, unless you have a great amount of DPS you can whittle someone down with a primary.

Honestly, I like dire bats, I really do--but they don't have any place in PvP. Unless you have tremendously insane gear, then EVERYTHING works.
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Plague of bats is awful in PvP unless you're locked into 1v1 situation, even then, there are still better skills to use out there.

Do not use it.


Put the crack pipe down son. Plague is a brutally good skill - dismissing it out of hand like that goes a fair way to allowing me to assume you haven't done much with it. Haunt/WoS are exceptionally good skills for ranged, but for close-up micro, Plague is king. Ever tried quickfire WoS when someone is punching in your grill? Quick tap on Bats and run. GG.
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I'm sorry--with the amount of gear other players have compared to mine, I'd rather not ever have to be in "close - up micro". I usually accept death if that ever happens. Why do you think all melee classes are all in tears right now? It's because they can't get close at all.

It's inevitable, but if they do get in close enough, then it was my mistake they got close to me to start with.

-Edit- I have used it, I fired it off in close range. It didn't help my dying situation. Pulling monks off of you or Barbs when they're in close range is a little difficult. Even if you did fired off bats and ran--I don't think it would make that much of a difference unless it was a killing blow. Most barbs and monks I've seen start running at around 25% health and wouldn't commit to a dive. So what then? You just used plague bats to run to ................ (drum roll) long range (drum roll) .......... Or are you gonna sit there and take a beating hoping he goes down first to plague bats?
Edited by Lmaoonadee#1981 on 2/1/2013 1:31 AM PST
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Spirit Barrage is really good, but so is Manitou. What does more damage to a jinxed target? Haunt+Barrage? Or Haunt+Manitou+Nuke?
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I don't really like Manitou in PvP either since it wastes the coveted WoS--but put this into perspective. It's 1667% weapon damage as Physical OVER 20 seconds. That means you are doing ONLY 83.35% every SECOND. The RATE it fires the barrages out isn't effected by attack speed either. Unless someone tells me I have the mechanics of the skill down wrong.

You'd do more DPS throw jars of leaping spiders at people on the move.

Haunt + Barrage is the superior combo. Even in PvE, damage-wise, the DPS WoS provides is almost second to bears if not greater (debateable).

If all souls hit -- it's 230% + (3) 65%. That's not including any crits or additional item skill bonuses. That makes what? An instant 425% damage + 95% a second from haunt?

So unless
Haunt + Jynx + Manitou + Nuke can add up to that in a short amount of time--it won't be able to match up to the DPS Haunt + WoS set up.

You get an 85% hit from Manitou on the first second and 95% from the first second of haunt. I dont think any nuke is strong enough match up compensate for the missing WoS.
Edited by Lmaoonadee#1981 on 2/1/2013 1:55 AM PST
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I usually accept death if that ever happens. Why do you think all melee classes are all in tears right now?
It's inevitable, but if they do get in close enough, then it was my mistake they got close to me to start with.



You accept death. I like to find a way out.

And Chewzilla is on the money. Jinx them? I'd rather dump a few ticks of bats rather than WoS.
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Yes, but you are choosing a much more difficult path. You are asking him to head to a complete stand still when the dynamics of PvP require you to move to stay alive. Unless you are in a 1v1 scenario--this won't be easy to do and will not amount to the damage WoS will put out in a short amount of time.

Also, remember--you stutter stepping plague bats will not help your situation when someone is in melee range and you are trying to get away.

Its fine to be unique--the bats will have their time to shine in the next patch since we saw almost no changes in this one, however, now is not the time. It's time to Haunt and WoS people into tears.
Edited by Lmaoonadee#1981 on 2/1/2013 2:10 AM PST
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Don't mind Brahm, he thinks every edit is an attempt to discredit him. Even if you do it to clear things up he'll think it's to spite him. He has some type of complex going on. He'll probably think I'm "following" him as well--I mean there's only so many threads that are created within this WD section.

Plague of bats is awful in PvP unless you're locked into 1v1 situation, even then, there are still better skills to use out there.

Do not use it.

-Edit- Uh oh, used the edit button. I'm going to get it now.


^^^
Punches guy in the nuts --- then says oh don't listen to that guy there he is gonna tell you people punch him in the nuts he has a complex or something.

Yes you don't follow/harass me at all. Which is why the first half of the your first post on this thread has nothing to do with the topic, but instead your typical attempts to grief me.

Classic Lmaoonadee nothing of value to say.

Yah Plagued bats suck in pvp keep thinking that... ...works for me and everybody else it seems so far. Horrible in FFA I mean you couldn't say run into a group of people and hit multiple targets with a single dot attack and SW out to safety and follow up with a quick "finisher" nope can't do anything like that with plagued bats..
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 2/1/2013 2:43 AM PST
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I'm sorry--with the amount of gear other players have compared to mine, I'd rather not ever have to be in "close - up micro". I usually accept death if that ever happens. Why do you think all melee classes are all in tears right now? It's because they can't get close at all.

It's inevitable, but if they do get in close enough, then it was my mistake they got close to me to start with.

-Edit- I have used it, I fired it off in close range. It didn't help my dying situation. Pulling monks off of you or Barbs when they're in close range is a little difficult. Even if you did fired off bats and ran--I don't think it would make that much of a difference unless it was a killing blow. Most barbs and monks I've seen start running at around 25% health and wouldn't commit to a dive. So what then? You just used plague bats to run to ................ (drum roll) long range (drum roll) .......... Or are you gonna sit there and take a beating hoping he goes down first to plague bats?


Learn to stack dots and damage multipliers. Then when all dots active you finish them off with spirit barrage. It's the only way you are going to out dps the big ehp players. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp - Max Simultaneous damage. It's nothing new I've been talking about for a long time.
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 2/1/2013 2:26 AM PST
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01/31/2013 11:56 PMPosted by Chewzilla
edit was to clear up the math, because 1.4 attack speed means you attack about every .7s, but anyway, the fact that you are pointing out my edits as if they are an attempt to discredit you says something about that '1up' game you aren't playing.


I'm pointing them out because you edited it after I responded. If you are having a conversation with somebody and they respond to you have the courtesy to at least notate what you edited if you are going to edit a post after it has been responded to. While I'm not saying you did, some people choose to use this mechanic to say things then go back and edit them as a means of trolling.

With that said. You aren't quite understanding how POB works. Yes it's a dot, but it's a dot that stacks.

Each "round of damage" adds to each other up to 5 I believe. Therefor over the course of casting it the total damage being done increase by EACH round of dots that stack ontop of each other. Hence the "increase of damage over time".

If you sustain the spell it will do ALL 5 dots at the same dropping the oldest, adding the newest keeping it's maxing damage once you have all 5 ticking in rotation. However a single attack (hit and run) will not do as much damage as if you waited for the full 5 tick to hit and run the course of it's lifespan

It's something that is very easily noticed by simply watching the rate of decrease in life as you use the spell. You can watch as the longer it is casted (up to 5 ticks) will increase the rate at which life is decreased from your target.

Increasing your attack speed will decrease the time between the ticks (at least I've noticed this and other have spoken to it, and I believe you agree with). Which will allow you to ramp up from 1 dot to 5 stackable dots quicker.

So yes it does ramp up. As your first attack is only the first of 5 stack-able dots that damage over the course of I believe 5 seconds each could be 3 as you say. I haven't gone out of my way to time it with more then just verbal count down.
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 2/1/2013 3:13 AM PST
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I would consider agreeing with you Brahm, except you didn't just say that plague bats ramps up, you directly compared it to cloud bats and the mechanics are just straight up different, you are WRONG. I like how you tried to call me out on some '1up' game then proceed to spam walls of text. And that last brick is total BS, capping at 5 dots etc? Where the hell did you get that information. It applies as many dots as is allowed by your attack speed, and nothing about individual tick rates has to do with attack speed. It's really so far off, it's hard to explain how hard you are wrong.
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@Lmaoonadee, I don't understand what is so coveted about WoS, you aren't going to kill anyone with proper defenses with sniping. Everything is about finding that one long jink chain after you have forced their trump. The thing about forcing trumps is that when your opponent has it, you can't stop moving because that will get you stunned and force you to jaunt, and hard engaging for the kill isn't safe without jaunt, forcing you to run and wait for jaunt to even think about going for a kill. I don't care if WoS autotargets, because I am only nuking when I have a jink chain(with jaunt up) and I already have the control I need to dps.
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Learn to stack dots and damage multipliers. Then when all dots active you finish them off with spirit barrage. It's the only way you are going to out dps the big ehp players. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp - Max Simultaneous damage. It's nothing new I've been talking about for a long time.


you really really don't get it and the fact that you so condescending and self-congratulatory just makes it worse.
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02/01/2013 11:11 AMPosted by Chewzilla
I would consider agreeing with you Brahm, except you didn't just say that plague bats ramps up, you directly compared it to cloud bats and the mechanics are just straight up different, you are WRONG. I like how you tried to call me out on some '1up' game then proceed to spam walls of text. And that last brick is total BS, capping at 5 dots etc? Where the hell did you get that information. It applies as many dots as is allowed by your attack speed, and nothing about individual tick rates has to do with attack speed. It's really so far off, it's hard to explain how hard you are wrong.


Ok well we agree to disagree then. I've tested it, others have tested it. We have no means to prove our tests and don't have access to the code. Take it at face value you are clinging on the to the word "ramp" to acutely. It can be used in different context. Yes Cloud of bats is not a DOT, but both Cloud of bats and Plauged bats do RAMP up to maximum damage over time. One via an increase of damage per hit, the other by how many separate attacks it is doing at once via stack-able dots. Try it yourself and see I get no benefit from beating a dead horse.

Edit: Although I do think it's pretty sad that I take the time to explain to you how something works and you respond with insults. I'll just lay out how things work, and you can take it as it is, or use it as a reason to pick a fight. IDC either way.
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 2/1/2013 12:14 PM PST
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Learn to stack dots and damage multipliers. Then when all dots active you finish them off with spirit barrage. It's the only way you are going to out dps the big ehp players. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp - Max Simultaneous damage. It's nothing new I've been talking about for a long time.


you really really don't get it and the fact that you so condescending and self-congratulatory just makes it worse.


No.. I get it. As does everybody else who understands this principle. I've been over it so many times as it's not just something that applies to PVP.

Take at as you may I'm not being condescending to you. Lmao w/e is a troll I treat him with the same respect he shows me.

Think about it. If you stack multiple dots and back it up with a big hitting spell you are effectively multiplying the total amount of damage you are doing at any given moment. Think of it as increasing the number of attacks you can do.

If say I use 3 dots that last 5 seconds each. I can cast all 3 dots in 1.5 seconds. That means over the course of the remaining 3.5 seconds I will be doing 3 attacks at once procing on there own. Lets just say each of those attacks do 200% damage tick. So for the next 3.5 seconds I am now doing 600% damage to a target without me doing anything else. Now say I stack a big hitting spell. Say one that does an additional 600% damage, and say I have an attack speed of 1.75. What that means is while I am already passively attacking my target for 600% damage I can actively stack 600% more damage an additional 4 times over that course of that 3.5 seconds. Bringing me to all my attacks doing 1200% Damage in 3.5 second + 1.5 seconds at a lesser rate that it took to cast the initial dots, and that isn't even taking into account crits.

That is HUGE.

This how you "out dps" regen and large ehp while giving your self time to run, that is how you take down monsters reflect damage while under spirit walk, or monsters with shields in upper MP if you don't have the EHP to tank. Otherwise you are just stuck doing single non-stacking attacks praying you get a succession of crit strikes in a row to overcome the targets defenses.
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 2/1/2013 12:17 PM PST
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Plague Bats are pretty deadly against DH's especially I've noticed. It actually seems like I can hit them with bats even when they are cloaked. Much of the time I'll stand near a wall so they have to get close for a shot and then I spray them with bats and a haunt if possible when they come around the corner. They almost always die while cloaked or run away with low health. Plague Bats are good in certain situations no doubt about it. I would however like to say that I think Locust Swarm is a somewhat useless pvp spell. It needs to be nerfed to either have the range increased or the dot increased considering how close you have to get to use it.
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wat? you really think I am being condescending? Telling you you are wrong is not being disrespectful, you need to really take a step back and listen to yourself. But anyway, why would you stack nukes on top of a nuking dot? It is redundant, just cast more bats, why do you need another nuke if bats ARE the nuke.
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and plague bats still don't ramp up, all that changes is the number of stacks you have applied, capped by how many attacks you can get off in 3s. Do regular firebats ramp up? One attack of firebats = 180% weapon damage, one attack of plague bats = 270% weapon damage.
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02/01/2013 12:41 PMPosted by Chewzilla
wat? you really think I am being condescending? Telling you you are wrong is not being disrespectful, you need to really take a step back and listen to yourself. But anyway, why would you stack nukes on top of a nuking dot? It is redundant, just cast more bats, why do you need another nuke if bats ARE the nuke.


Yes I did, but whatever It's a forum and context is hard to understand via text so no big deal.

I agree you can 100% use PB as your nuke however it needs multiple ticks, attacks, or stacks (however you want to put it) for it to reach nuke levels. Which is totally fine if you target is coming in for that melee attack and you can just hose him down before they kill you. It's a fun way to bait them in when you have SV available to you, and you know you can out tank the player while firing away your spell, or if you know your target is already weak or simply can't deal with a DOT.

However most of the people I've been playing, that give me trouble are always on the move and have a ton of regen and damage mitigation. They hit, and run and are trying to regen whenever you do significant damage to them. A single DOT attack won't do the trick and they won't give me the chance to hit them with more then a couple stacks of PB. Most of them when they see my cast it pull away.

What I can do is bait them in. Hit them with a close range dot, now they are starting to take damage over that 5 seconds, follow it up with a second dot (say locust, or grasp to keep them from going to far), then as they pull further use a 3rd dot (say haunt). They now have at least 3 separate attacks "ticking" on them. Then I follow up it up with WOS to finish them and it most likely will work regardless of if I get a luck crit or not since I'm already doing a ton of damage to them.

Mana issn't really an issue in PVP in most cases so overkill on spells isn't going to hurt anything. If you take a person down by the time they revive your mana is already back where it needs to be.
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02/01/2013 12:51 PMPosted by Chewzilla
and plague bats still don't ramp up, all that changes is the number of stacks you have applied, capped by how many attacks you can get off in 3s. Do regular firebats ramp up? One attack of firebats = 180% weapon damage, one attack of plague bats = 270% weapon damage.


Like I said on the first page we are waxing semantics. I can't hit a target with 5 Haunts doing DOT damage at the same time. It either resets, or won't add anymore damage until the first ones allotted time is up. (I'm not 100% on this haven't paid attention to it).

PB doesn't work like that. It's a single spell that stacks upon it's self.

Normal fire (or direbats) do damage in succession. Since Dots do damage over time, having multiple "stacks" of dots triggering on the same target will "ramp up" the total amount of damage being done from that one spell over the course of the same time. 5 stacks hitting a target in the same time is going to do more then 1. Hence as it stacks it "ramps up" doing more damage. We can keep playing word games but I suspect we are both saying the same thing.

~The time for PB is 5 second not 3. From initial cast until you see the last tick, time it.
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 2/1/2013 1:09 PM PST
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