Diablo® III

WD most Useless class in MP10

Is it just me or do WD feel like a useless class in MP10..

i have 160k dps unbuffed.. 662 all resists... and 65.5k hp all unbuffed and i feel as though the WD class is not strong enough compared to other classes. I have a 0 ZD spec and its useless in mp10 i have 880 res all in it and 70k hp with around 90k dps. it can kill elites but most packs are a pain and take forever. I can kill all mp10 besides ubers solo but i feel it takes longer than it should. They need to buff WD because we may seem OP but once we hit MP10 we are far from a viable class especially if our gear should allow us to tackle mp10
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become a support class and become the most useful.

poison darts snake to the face, garg with stun, voodoo with damage, haunt with life steal.
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@op:
doing mp10 beside key and uber is useless...even hellfire ring is useless, another debate tho.

to farm effectively MP10 ( kill elite pack under 1min and few death), you'd need around 200k dps unbuffed, basically kill b4 getting killed.

@Mack:
support class in a hack&slash is fail....
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become a support class and become the most useful.

poison darts snake to the face, garg with stun, voodoo with damage, haunt with life steal.


not to mention zerodog = auto heal all members of party instantly for the duration of the entire battle.
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Guys.. get an Echoing Fury. I was doing ok in MP10 but depended on the elite packs. I was using that nasty yellow pack in act 3 dungeon 3 to test builds. The one with the soldier saying he locked them in there. Anyway, pretty much everything is doable now. Fields of slaughter, crater are some examples. A fury with high fear and rain of toads and your gold.
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Pack killing is still slow.. my barb total DPS is around 300-550K all totalled up. Under a minute especially with extra health > 100 mil life should take anyone longer than lower MP farming at decent DPS.
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I have no problem killing packs in about 1 min. Its ubers solo i cannot do
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02/02/2013 07:39 PMPosted by Enchatin
I have no problem killing packs in about 1 min. Its ubers solo i cannot do


you would have an easier time with some better pants for ubers
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Is it just me or do WD feel like a useless class in MP10..

i have 160k dps unbuffed.. 662 all resists... and 65.5k hp all unbuffed and i feel as though the WD class is not strong enough compared to other classes. I have a 0 ZD spec and its useless in mp10 i have 880 res all in it and 70k hp with around 90k dps. it can kill elites but most packs are a pain and take forever. I can kill all mp10 besides ubers solo but i feel it takes longer than it should. They need to buff WD because we may seem OP but once we hit MP10 we are far from a viable class especially if our gear should allow us to tackle mp10


I run 0 Dog spec and farm MP10 just fine. Most elites die by the time my bbv has ended except for elites that constantly run away from me or extra health those take a bit longer and sometimes health link but its not that much longer and is totally within reason. If you wanna see me in action check out my live stream.

http://twitch.tv/heyguyslol_1302
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@op:
doing mp10 beside key and uber is useless...even hellfire ring is useless, another debate tho.

to farm effectively MP10 ( kill elite pack under 1min and few death), you'd need around 200k dps unbuffed, basically kill b4 getting killed.

@Mack:
support class in a hack&slash is fail....


I have 167k dps unbuffed and kill elites well under a min.
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02/02/2013 08:25 PMPosted by heyguyslol
I run 0 Dog spec and farm MP10 just fine


02/02/2013 08:26 PMPosted by heyguyslol
I have 167k dps unbuffed and kill elites well under a min.


ofc u can...if a 2-3 billions gold gear cant handle MP10 then something's really wrong.
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To efficiently farm mp10 in 1.0.7, you need a lot more dps than 200k. It should take around 15-20 seconds to kill an elite pack. A minute is way too long.
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There's quite a few elite packs that have 60-100+ million life. If you were doing 500K DPS constant damage it still takes 2-4 minutes to take them down. Then you get more people in a party and monster life is higher. Some comments of taking them down well under a minute has got me curious.

My barb has a base of 104K and buffed to 167K. If I swap gems and things around I can get a buff to 180K+ buffed. With that I use rend for 700% damage over 5 seconds. All skills damage added up (whirlwind + sprint twisters + rend) I figure I can total somewhere around 300-500K DPS sustained damage. Berserker isn't affected by freeze, jailers for one. Walls are the only blockers. Everything else I can take unless there is more than 5-6 arcanes in one spot.. sometime molten is higher damage, reflect does nothing. Even that takes a while. I can't say I'm taking things down in under a minute.. Might feel like it sometimes but not way unless they are 25 mil life or something pretty small.

Witch Docs side of things.. I've seen some 276K DPS WD's in PvP. So take haunt + bears /acid cloud and whatever else you can. Add in close range mortors, molten, freeze, arcane, jailer. What type of build do you need to run and how much DPS gets you under a minute for the highest life elite packs? Besides having to move to avoid damage. What does your combined damage add up to?

One thing I'm really interested in right now it the actual hit damage. Skorn is a slow attack speed but means each hit is harder. Fast attack speed is a light hit and not great for DoTs. So if anyone can time their battle and shoot back an average damage / s that would be cool.
Edited by Shockwave#1233 on 2/4/2013 9:54 AM PST
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I should have been more clear. I'm not a WD, I'm a cm/ww wizard. This post got my attention because I was previously testing my xp rate on mp10. To efficiently farm there, you need real dps in the millions and not die.

So if anyone can time their battle and shoot back an average damage / s that would be cool.


My average damage depends on my build and the number of targets I can hit. Two targets mean almost two times my dps. For a single target, I've hit around 5.5m dps. For normal farming with lots of targets, that dps would be a lot higher. The other half of the equation is that you need the mitigation, health, and recovery to not get killed. Easy right?
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Witch Doctors are definitely not the most efficient or most effective class for MP10 but they're not useless. The class is not designed to be an all-out damage class. You're never going to be able to do the same amount of damage as a Barbarian. The class is more of a balance of survivability and damage. Witch Doctors are good at avoiding damage and staying alive.

With my Witch Doctor I rarely ever do Ubers in a group on lower monster powers than MP10 and I rarely die. I have solo killed MP10 ubers but it was extremely difficult and each set of ubers required a different build so I would never do it unless I simply wanted the challenge. I also do key farming in MP10 because efficiency is measured differently when key farming vs legendary or xp farming so how long it takes is usually balanced out by the 100% drop rate. I do not do legendary or xp farming in MP10 because it's just not efficient because of the time it takes to kill things.
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Just a quick test in act 3 mp10 dungeon. 4 different elite packs. soul ripper and skeleton bowmen. Somewhere around 25 mil life each for skeleton blues. Couple of yellow packs (skeleton bowmen + soul ripper pack that were 15 mil life minions and 49-59 mil life champion). Both yellows were freeze, plague pool. The soul rippers were molten, mortar, fast, plague pool.

Anyway, the took about 3-6 minutes per pack depending on how much chasing or dodging mortars. One pack I feared in the corner and got my time down but those guys run around too much so hard to pin down and keep in one place. And no dying to it's all chasing them and attack or positioning to attack.

My DPS at 114k and 1.84 IAS so guessing around 60-68K average hit damage. Over time I was averaging about 160-300K DPS per monster totalling damage. Used these 2 builds to test:
1) Zombie Bear / medusa spider / haunt draining spirit (+pets)
2) Acid Cloud corpse bomb / rain of toads / haunt draining spirit (+pets)

Using my old manajuma it took 25 mins to do Azmodan mp10. He has 138 mil life solo then his minions to deal with. Again you can't keep on him all the time.

I would guess to double my DPS is still 2x faster which is still slow IMO.
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How would they buff the WD? Would changing any our skills make our class better?
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02/02/2013 05:55 PMPosted by Enchatin
i have 160k dps unbuffed.. 662 all resists... and 65.5k hp all unbuffed and i feel as though the WD class is not strong enough compared to other classes. I have a 0 ZD spec and its useless in mp10 i have 880 res all in it and 70k hp with around 90k dps


Sorry to hear that mate, but just like the Demon Hunter, the DPS requirement for a Witch Doctor on MP 10 is much higher. If you look at the World ranking for Players' DPS, you'll see people there dishing 500,000+ DPS. I think they will be most qualified for MP 10.

That said, you might need to spend a little more for HP and damage to get to MP 10, or, stick to the MP level you're comfortable with.

Personally, this is my take on how to know what MP level is good for you:


Barbarian: DPS / 11.25k = comfortable MP level

Demon Hunter: DPS / 37k = comfortable MP level

Monk: DPS / 20k = comfortable MP level

Witch Doctor: DPS / 34k = comfortable MP level

Wizard: DPS / 24k = comfortable MP level

(for example, if your barbarian has 90,000+ DPS / 11,250 = the MP level you can take on perfectly will be MP 8.)
***Note! This is MY personal take on the MP level comfort that I do for myself, not an official calculation.

Also, these calculations are very build dependent, such as, that calculation for the Barbarian was meant for the Whirlwind-tornado builds (with Ruthless/Weapon Master passives). If you're switching to a pure defensive passive and skills, you might need to lower the MP a little bit if playing solo, otherwise it might take you forever.

And, your EHP (effective hit points) will also affect your MP level comfort big time, too. The amount of damage you can take and your Hitpoints will influence the MP level you can play, too.
Edited by numenorean#1374 on 2/6/2013 11:54 AM PST
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I've been playing a DH, Barb abd Wizard. One thing I notice is a DH skill can be setup fairly nice to stun and can pretty much stand there and kill things. Barb skills all feed into each other battle rage gens fury on crit, berserker is extended time on crit, WW / sprint uses fury get procs a lot of LoH. Wizard is the critical mass build.

WD has the zero dog build but very expensive gear for really good stuff. Also the freeze build and cheapest I would say is using the echoing fury and frogs. In some ways the WD has more options.

Just from a skills setup there really isn't much that works well for stun or freeze obviously. I was working on an addling toads build but so far needs something else to help with protecting you. I was working nicely on phasebeast packs in MP10. They were getting confused pretty good and bashing each other which was taking them down fast. Also succubus and other nasty packs. They would still focus you sometimes and could lose control of it fast. So maybe fear would work into that in some way to keep them away. I thought a fury and that might work together but doesnt do so well.
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A question especially to the highly geared WDs in this thread: what mp do you farm for pure drops (once paragon 100)?

I'd prefer an answer from non- 0dog builds but any answer would be informative, thanks.
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