Diablo® III

0 DOG Guide - Updated P1.0.8 (10-18-13)

I have tried a few different gear/skill specs for 0 Dogs (LS vs No LS, less and more globe bonus, edps vs glass cannon, higher vs lower than 2 APS etc) for end game, I personally have found that while low APS is workable, it's hard to ignore APS when we're talking about full game viability on MP10... esp when running with PtP. Finding build balance on ZD is very dependent on the player's playstyle, An ehp spec might work work for some players while for some it'll be a glass cannon spec that scratches their itch. Some it'll be fast rapid fire dog explosions, while to some it'll be higher yellow numbers.

While higher damage numbers is more than achievable with low APS, it ultimately boils down to how that balances with a WD's edps/life/edps/ls/globes ratio. When I did my ehp spec, it got too boring. I tried a pure glass cannon, dying just got annoying. When I tried a spec about 98% similar to Psycum's(my second spec I tried back in the day), although the numbers were higher which gave me more life return per 1 cast of Dogs/Sac, it still messed up my LS pretty bad.

***I say LS because imo not relying on globe rolls helps a lot with strategy with PtP (I run a PtP spec). I still have health globes in my spec, i just don't rely on it. I don't rely on potions either so I try not use health pots as much as possible***

It messed me up in such a way that I couldn't do my regular playstyle with such low APS because it hindered me from being able to herd multiple mobs for one giant kill. Just the difference between 2 APS vs 2.33 APS was more than enough to show me this. I tried even lower APS and quite frankly, aside from the actual in game difference, my WD moving like he's in slow mo just irked me the wrong way.

So although it provided me with higher numbers which resulted in higher LS numbers, ultimately, my life return still got gimped significantly because higher LS doesn't mean FASTER LS.

This can also mess up players that do rely on the globe rolls since ZD actually have a windup similar to CM wiz, only difference is it's a health globe windup instead of nado tic windup. Low APS hurts this windup a lot. Another reason why I don't rely on health globe spawns.

If you have good enough ehp/ls/globes/life, and if you do one mob at a time, I def can say that Psycum's spec can and will work. A player just needs to make sure he makes up for the lack of APS with everything else. I personally have tested this route before it just doesn't fit how I play the game.

So balancing ZD really has a lot to do with player playstyle, type of runs etc. Though it's good to see people finally starting to divert from what seems to be the "norm" ZD build that's been established. If economy was a little better, I think there'd be more variants by now.
Edited by LordAmsa#1453 on 5/1/2013 7:50 AM PDT
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Heyguslol:

From EU here... How about PVP or Brawling or whatsoever... Any tips in considering this build fighting other players? Is it viable to use the same skills in PVP?
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I think I got into 0 dog about a month ago. Thanks for the tips guys. It'll be a slow progression for me to swap around the gears. :)
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I am selling a cheap 0 dog soj thats 5/30/-8 reduction. Let me know a fair price and its yours :D Just want to get rid of it so i can go bid.
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Heyguslol:

From EU here... How about PVP or Brawling or whatsoever... Any tips in considering this build fighting other players? Is it viable to use the same skills in PVP?


Personally I can't stand the pvp garbage blizzard gave us so therefore I don't pvp and I am not the best person to seek advice on what would be a good pvp build.
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If you have good enough ehp/ls/globes/life, and if you do one mob at a time, I def can say that Psycum's spec can and will work. A player just needs to make sure he makes up for the lack of APS with everything else. I personally have tested this route before it just doesn't fit how I play the game.

So balancing ZD really has a lot to do with player playstyle, type of runs etc. Though it's good to see people finally starting to divert from what seems to be the "norm" ZD build that's been established. If economy was a little better, I think there'd be more variants by now.


Well as I alrdy stated, the guide I wrote and published here is meant to target players who are new to the wd class and/or the 0 dog build. I nvr claimed that it was the end all be all of the 0 Dog spec.

There will always be players who will want to change/improve the build which I think is great but the problem with going with variant builds comes down to play style. What may fit one person's play style may not fit others. When I wrote my guide I wanted to do my best that what ever I advised, helped transition new players into the build without to much grief in failures and wasting gold.

Although the game has changed somewhat since I originally wrote it and I have learned a bit more about the build the more I played it, I have done my best to try to keep it up to date.

All I wanted to do is help the community with my guide and I'm sorry to those of you who feel it's wrong or inaccurate. I put a lot of time and gold into playing the 0 Dog build and I had hoped that my experience would benefit someone and save them some time, headache, and most of all money.

Aside from that, I am coming to a point with D3 that it is no longer holding my interest as it once did. A lot of that has to do with Blizzard's incompetence and slow game development to get things done in a reasonable amount of time. Therefore I wont be playing D3 as much as I use to and I eagerly await the itemization patch as it will determine whether I continue to ever play this game again. I will however, continue to play ptr's and read updates so that I can continue updating the 0 Dog Guide accordingly, I don't see to much changing in D3 that is going to be a drastic game changer for how the 0 Dog build is played.

I think for now I will probably be playing Marvel Hero's as it seems to be the game we all wanted D3 to be. The more research I've done about the game the more and more I come to like it, it has everything D3 doesn't have and more and in addition to that the game developers actually do *listen* to their consumers unlike Blizzard.
Edited by heyguyslol#1302 on 5/1/2013 9:35 AM PDT
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Just wanted to say thank you for all the information provided by this thread, I like the back and forth on the different ideas provided. Although my build is more in line with heyguys and jonkz I too had been thinking about slightly less AS and more damage but decided that casting twice for slightly less damage was better then once with slightly more damage. Just My opinion. I want to switch to PtP but haven't found the sword with LS to replace the damage i get from current weapon. Always a work in progress I guess. Gives me the time to get the rest of my gear straigh before making the plunge.

Side note, I prefer the skull grasp over soj even though i think the soj hits harder. I have both for different situations.

Keep up the good commentary.
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Just wanted to say thank you for all the information provided by this thread, I like the back and forth on the different ideas provided. Although my build is more in line with heyguys and jonkz I too had been thinking about slightly less AS and more damage but decided that casting twice for slightly less damage was better then once with slightly more damage. Just My opinion. I want to switch to PtP but haven't found the sword with LS to replace the damage i get from current weapon. Always a work in progress I guess. Gives me the time to get the rest of my gear straigh before making the plunge.

Side note, I prefer the skull grasp over soj even though i think the soj hits harder. I have both for different situations.

Keep up the good commentary.


I actually swap back and forth between my skull grasp and soj, it optimizes dps for both trash and elite kills. I think with this new patch 1.0.8 with the mob density changes which will require players to kill more trash, 0 dog players may also adopt this method and start to use both rings as I do. It does take some getting use to as far as switching rings back and forth but after u get use to it, its np and who knows maybe 3-4 years from now when and if Blizzard listens to their consumers maybe they will add a gear swap option :P

In case I haven't made it clear enough I am not at all a fanboy of Blizzard. There was a time when the company was actually good and made good games but I think that time has passed. For those of you who do enjoy Blizzard games thats great, I wish I could but the more and more I see from them the more and more I get pissed off and want to punch holes in walls so to speak.
Edited by heyguyslol#1302 on 5/1/2013 9:51 AM PDT
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Well as I alrdy stated, the guide I wrote and published here is meant to target players who are new to the wd class and/or the 0 dog build. I nvr claimed that it was the end all be all of the 0 Dog spec.

There will always be players who will want to change/improve the build which I think is great but the problem with going with variant builds comes down to play style. What may fit one person's play style may not fit others. When I wrote my guide I wanted to do my best that what ever I advised, helped transition new players into the build without to much grief in failures and wasting gold.

Although the game has changed somewhat since I originally wrote it and I have learned a bit more about the build the more I played it, I have done my best to try to keep it up to date.

All I wanted to do is help the community with my guide and I'm sorry to those of you who feel it's wrong or inaccurate. I put a lot of time and gold into playing the 0 Dog build and I had hoped that my experience would benefit someone and save them some time, headache, and most of all money.

Aside from that, I am coming to a point with D3 that it is no longer holding my interest as it once did. A lot of that has to do with Blizzard's incompetence and slow game development to get things done in a reasonable amount of time. Therefore I wont be playing D3 as much as I use to and I eagerly await the itemization patch as it will determine whether I continue to ever play this game again. I will however, continue to play ptr's and read updates so that I can continue updating the 0 Dog Guide accordingly, I don't see to much changing in D3 that is going to be a drastic game changer for how the 0 Dog build is played.

I think for now I will probably be playing Marvel Hero's as it seems to be the game we all wanted D3 to be. The more research I've done about the game the more and more I come to like it, it has everything D3 doesn't have and more and in addition to that the game developers actually do *listen* to their consumers unlike Blizzard.


Hm? If I sounded like I was speaking about your guide, I apologize. I was talking more about Psyclum's route he decided to take with his WD. Your guide is very well written and well researched and I still really wish I have read it a lot earlier. More importantly, I understand the guide's author's goal is to keep things concise and short and the best way to do that is to put what the author have seen to be the most effective route to take. My apologies for any misunderstanding.

It is sad the game doesn't have the replayability I expected. I guess getting 700+ hours of game time is actually decent compared to other games, but it still does come far way too short on the to do list in the end. Looking back, the 700 hours I invested so far in the game was more because of having this weird faith that I'll eventually like the game the more I played it. "Eventually" has yet to happen. I have met a lot of chill people around the forums and in game tho. So that's always cool.

So you going to be on the MH servers this weekend?
Edited by LordAmsa#1453 on 5/1/2013 10:05 AM PDT
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05/01/2013 09:25 AMPosted by heyguyslol
All I wanted to do is help the community with my guide and I'm sorry to those of you who feel it's wrong or inaccurate. I put a lot of time and gold into playing the 0 Dog build and I had hoped that my experience would benefit someone and save them some time, headache, and most of all money.


Do not feel for one second that you are unappreciated. I think I've referenced you to just about every player that asks me about my spec..."oh my god that is so cool how do I do that on my WD?" My response is almost always "look up heyguyslol". I am currently only around 130k dps as 0-dog but your guide was so precise and clear I was able to gear quickly and efficiently -- without wasting any gold except for the main hand I salvaged when I got drunk. Your section alone on followers helped me reduce the amount of times I die in mp9 by about HALF.

Your guide is awesome, and your reception to criticism is admirable. I'm honestly sad to see you leave to Marvel Heroes. You and people like you are what make this community fun.

Now, a few questions. I'm getting cold feet. I want to invest into 0-dog as I luuuuuuuv it. However, I'm kind of a flavor of the month type of guy. I don't like wasting time on something that is inefficient. Well let me rephrase that, something that is LESS efficient. My question -- should I start saving for firebats or should I finish my 0-dog build? What do you feel will be better in terms of damage, survivability, group utility, and plain old fun. I love healing my team with health gloves. Always healed in WoW arena and have been a healer ever since.

Again, thanks for this guide.
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05/01/2013 09:57 AMPosted by Ryman
All I wanted to do is help the community with my guide and I'm sorry to those of you who feel it's wrong or inaccurate. I put a lot of time and gold into playing the 0 Dog build and I had hoped that my experience would benefit someone and save them some time, headache, and most of all money.


Do not feel for one second that you are unappreciated. I think I've referenced you to just about every player that asks me about my spec..."oh my god that is so cool how do I do that on my WD?" My response is almost always "look up heyguyslol". I am currently only around 130k dps as 0-dog but your guide was so precise and clear I was able to gear quickly and efficiently -- without wasting any gold except for the main hand I salvaged when I got drunk. Your section alone on followers helped me reduce the amount of times I die in mp9 by about HALF.

Your guide is awesome, and your reception to criticism is admirable. I'm honestly sad to see you leave to Marvel Heroes. You and people like you are what make this community fun.

Now, a few questions. I'm getting cold feet. I want to invest into 0-dog as I luuuuuuuv it. However, I'm kind of a flavor of the month type of guy. I don't like wasting time on something that is inefficient. Well let me rephrase that, something that is LESS efficient. My question -- should I start saving for firebats or should I finish my 0-dog build? What do you feel will be better in terms of damage, survivability, group utility, and plain old fun. I love healing my team with health gloves. Always healed in WoW arena and have been a healer ever since.

Again, thanks for this guide.


Thanks so much for your kind words and it makes me very happy that I'm able to help other players out.

To answer your question about CoB and 0 Dog, its a bit complecated but I will give u some feedback based on my testing and from see what others have tested.

First off if u build for CoB it is much cheaper than 0 Dog. However, there are a lot of design mechanics about CoB which make it not so desirable of a build to play. The three main things that kill CoB is 1) extremely short aoe range and 2) the initial recast cost when you are interrupted can leave u vulnerable and 3) It snap shot's Gruesome Feast so often times u wont get the full buff benefit without having to restart your channel which kills your dps.

I think CoB is just what blizzard said it was going to be an added skill but not a skill that you can create an entire build out of. The best build I've seen and played is CoB paired with Bears. CoB get's extremely annoying if u try to run that as your main attack for solo play. However, if you were to run group with say a cm wiz, and a cyclone strike monk, then a CoB build will probably work most of the time and be very effective.

I hate to sound biased but if you really want my honest opinion about which to go with when choosing between a 0 Dog spec and a CoB spec, I would recommend 0 Dog. Yes it's true CoB has the potential to produce more dps but its design mechanics are what kills the skill to be a viable build, plain and simple. 0 Dog just brings a lot more to the table for solo and group play without all the design flaws.
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Well as I alrdy stated, the guide I wrote and published here is meant to target players who are new to the wd class and/or the 0 dog build. I nvr claimed that it was the end all be all of the 0 Dog spec.

There will always be players who will want to change/improve the build which I think is great but the problem with going with variant builds comes down to play style. What may fit one person's play style may not fit others. When I wrote my guide I wanted to do my best that what ever I advised, helped transition new players into the build without to much grief in failures and wasting gold.

Although the game has changed somewhat since I originally wrote it and I have learned a bit more about the build the more I played it, I have done my best to try to keep it up to date.

All I wanted to do is help the community with my guide and I'm sorry to those of you who feel it's wrong or inaccurate. I put a lot of time and gold into playing the 0 Dog build and I had hoped that my experience would benefit someone and save them some time, headache, and most of all money.

Aside from that, I am coming to a point with D3 that it is no longer holding my interest as it once did. A lot of that has to do with Blizzard's incompetence and slow game development to get things done in a reasonable amount of time. Therefore I wont be playing D3 as much as I use to and I eagerly await the itemization patch as it will determine whether I continue to ever play this game again. I will however, continue to play ptr's and read updates so that I can continue updating the 0 Dog Guide accordingly, I don't see to much changing in D3 that is going to be a drastic game changer for how the 0 Dog build is played.

I think for now I will probably be playing Marvel Hero's as it seems to be the game we all wanted D3 to be. The more research I've done about the game the more and more I come to like it, it has everything D3 doesn't have and more and in addition to that the game developers actually do *listen* to their consumers unlike Blizzard.


Hm? If I sounded like I was speaking about your guide, I apologize. I was talking more about Psyclum's route he decided to take with his WD. Your guide is very well written and well researched and I still really wish I have read it a lot earlier. More importantly, I understand the guide's author's goal is to keep things concise and short and the best way to do that is to put what the author have seen to be the most effective route to take. My apologies for any misunderstanding.

It is sad the game doesn't have the replayability I expected. I guess getting 700+ hours of game time is actually decent compared to other games, but it still does come far way too short on the to do list in the end. Looking back, the 700 hours I invested so far in the game was more because of having this weird faith that I'll eventually like the game the more I played it. "Eventually" has yet to happen. I have met a lot of chill people around the forums and in game tho. So that's always cool.

So you going to be on the MH servers this weekend?


Sorry if I sounded emo but I've been getting a lot of negative feedback on the forums saying that I'm not a good 0 Dog player, that my guide is not accurate, and that the only reason I'm good is because I have good gear. I just wanted to clear things up in regards to the guide i wrote so ppl dont think that I'm claiming to know everything or every variation of the build.

Yes, I know my gear is pretty good, I think most of us all share the same goals here and thats to make our chars grow. I enjoy playing the 0 Dog build so much that I've invested a lot of coin into it. I think anyone in my situation who has the coin and opportunity to buy good items for their build would take advantage of it and do the same. I've just been very lucky to be able to scout out the items I've acquired and had the gold/money to be able to buy them.

Personally I think ppl should do what makes them happy when playing D3. For me it was gearing my wd and playing her on mp10. I am by no means the best 0 Dog wd out there, I'm just probably the most geared when it comes to 0 Dog, I'm sure there are far better players than me who play 0 Dog, I just try to have fun with it and not die lol.
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I will be playing MH this weekend my id is "heyguyslol". I'm really looking forward to it, I hope its as good as it *seems* or better, I really need a new game to play.
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Sorry if I sounded emo but I've been getting a lot of negative feedback on the forums saying that I'm not a good 0 Dog player, that my guide is not accurate, and that the only reason I'm good is because I have good gear. I just wanted to clear things up in regards to the guide i wrote so ppl dont think that I'm claiming to know everything or every variation of the build.

Yes, I know my gear is pretty good, I think most of us all share the same goals here and thats to make our chars grow. I enjoy playing the 0 Dog build so much that I've invested a lot of coin into it. I think anyone in my situation who has the coin and opportunity to buy good items for their build would take advantage of it and do the same. I've just been very lucky to be able to scout out the items I've acquired and had the gold/money to be able to buy them.

Personally I think ppl should do what makes them happy when playing D3. For me it was gearing my wd and playing her on mp10. I am by no means the best 0 Dog wd out there, I'm just probably the most geared when it comes to 0 Dog, I'm sure there are far better players than me who play 0 Dog, I just try to have fun with it and not die lol.


Negative feedback? Damn, I'm sorry to hear that. As you said, do whatever that makes players happy. You have fun investing a lot of resources like time, gold, and testing the limits of the build. Wish I could've done it to the extent that you have. That's awesome tho, not just for you, but the community as whole. People just get confused that guides aren't gospel pages so I guess negative reaction is something that can't be helped. For what it's worth, I personally don't think you are a bad ZD player. "I just try to have fun with it and not die lol" sums up my mindset when I actually play.
Edited by LordAmsa#1453 on 5/1/2013 11:27 AM PDT
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05/01/2013 11:09 AMPosted by heyguyslol
I will be playing MH this weekend my id is "heyguyslol". I'm really looking forward to it, I hope its as good as it *seems* or better, I really need a new game to play.


Word. You get any of the packages they offer?
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05/01/2013 11:25 AMPosted by LordAmsa
I will be playing MH this weekend my id is "heyguyslol". I'm really looking forward to it, I hope its as good as it *seems* or better, I really need a new game to play.


Word. You get any of the packages they offer?


I'm waiting to buy any packages till I have a chance to play the game first. Although I do have a huge amount of faith in David Brevik I still have to reserve judgement because I've played a lot of titles in the past that were suppose to be good and ended up not being the case, plus im a bit broke right now, lol.
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So what is the best gem to put in your weapon, crit or damge?
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Sorry if I sounded emo but I've been getting a lot of negative feedback on the forums saying that I'm not a good 0 Dog player, that my guide is not accurate, and that the only reason I'm good is because I have good gear. I just wanted to clear things up in regards to the guide i wrote so ppl dont think that I'm claiming to know everything or every variation of the build.

Yes, I know my gear is pretty good, I think most of us all share the same goals here and thats to make our chars grow. I enjoy playing the 0 Dog build so much that I've invested a lot of coin into it. I think anyone in my situation who has the coin and opportunity to buy good items for their build would take advantage of it and do the same. I've just been very lucky to be able to scout out the items I've acquired and had the gold/money to be able to buy them.

Personally I think ppl should do what makes them happy when playing D3. For me it was gearing my wd and playing her on mp10. I am by no means the best 0 Dog wd out there, I'm just probably the most geared when it comes to 0 Dog, I'm sure there are far better players than me who play 0 Dog, I just try to have fun with it and not die lol.


well I guess I'm one of those who appears to be giving negative feedback :D however its difficult to not sound like i'm giving negative feedback when offering contradicting build options to what is effectively the "canon build" for 0dogs. you of all people have done more for the 0dog build then anyone else in D3 so I don't think there is anything to be insecure about your guide :)

the "problem" i have with your guide is simply because it is THE default guide for 0dog and how strongly you spoke against builds that may focus on slower APS within the guide. the requirement set forth in your guide is 2 APS which IMO is quite high. I understand where you are coming from because it synergize well with health globes/gruesome feast, and for the master, however, BECAUSE it is THE 0dog guide that people are not even trying to explore beyond what you have set forth as "requirements" of this build. anyone speak otherwise would be branded "heretics" in their view and appear as if they are giving negative feedback. :D

what I'm trying to point out (which go up directly against your guide of high APS) is that since 1.08 encourage a much more group oriented gameplay, the extra survivability offered by the high APS may not be required. the gear selection towards more crit damage and intellect may help the overall kill speed of the group. within my variant build, I specifically warn people using it that they WILL die alot more :D however I think once they start seeing those large crit numbers they will be able to make a determination if the low APS style fits their personality/play style better.

for example. if someone who only plays with a RL friend that is a SNS wizzy, they don't actually NEED all that APS to survive. my alternate build simply offers the possibility of trading some of that additional haste into bigger nukes. as far as the health globes... i was SHOCKED to find that other classes seem to THINK that 0dog is ONLY good for health globe production. and they ACTUALLY believe bear build offer higher DPS output then 0dog :D that boggles me to no end... I suppose from their point of view it is valid since 0dog is such an expensive build and for the same budget, bears will almost always out DPS a 0dog. however at MP10 level equipment, 0dog is just as deadly if not more deadly then bears in all situations/affixes.

even within the 0dog community... due to the intrenched view on APS, some even question my ability to farm MP10 due to my seemingly low APS :D it's pretty much at this point i decided that there should be a counterpoint offered to demonstrate there are alternative play styles within the 0dog build and it is in fact very viable and group friendly. with an increased emphasis on grouping in 1.08, synergistic groups like 0dog+WW/CM+implosion will become the default group people play with. the future of D3 will focus on group member selection as much as gear selection and from THAT point of view, I feel trading the additional haste for bigger bang will actually increase the overall kill rate of the group.

I guess i simply want to be the guy that brings the DPS but ALSO bring health globes. instead of that guy who brings the health globes and also provides some dps.
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05/01/2013 11:30 AMPosted by heyguyslol


Word. You get any of the packages they offer?


I'm waiting to buy any packages till I have a chance to play the game first. Although I do have a huge amount of faith in David Brevik I still have to reserve judgement because I've played a lot of titles in the past that were suppose to be good and ended up not being the case, plus im a bit broke right now, lol.


Ok. I'll hit you up.
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05/01/2013 01:17 PMPosted by Psyclum
anyone speak otherwise would be branded "heretics" in their view and appear as if they are giving negative feedback. :D


I'm not sure what you mean. I haven't seen this happen, not at the WD forums at least. So far everyone here is more than happy to try out other people's ideas and suggestions. A lot of people are more than happy to just collaborate and brainstorm together. I haven't seen this branding you speak of.
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