Diablo® III

0 DOG Guide - Updated P1.0.8 (10-18-13)


Sorry if I sounded emo but I've been getting a lot of negative feedback on the forums saying that I'm not a good 0 Dog player, that my guide is not accurate, and that the only reason I'm good is because I have good gear. I just wanted to clear things up in regards to the guide i wrote so ppl dont think that I'm claiming to know everything or every variation of the build.

Yes, I know my gear is pretty good, I think most of us all share the same goals here and thats to make our chars grow. I enjoy playing the 0 Dog build so much that I've invested a lot of coin into it. I think anyone in my situation who has the coin and opportunity to buy good items for their build would take advantage of it and do the same. I've just been very lucky to be able to scout out the items I've acquired and had the gold/money to be able to buy them.

Personally I think ppl should do what makes them happy when playing D3. For me it was gearing my wd and playing her on mp10. I am by no means the best 0 Dog wd out there, I'm just probably the most geared when it comes to 0 Dog, I'm sure there are far better players than me who play 0 Dog, I just try to have fun with it and not die lol.


well I guess I'm one of those who appears to be giving negative feedback :D however its difficult to not sound like i'm giving negative feedback when offering contradicting build options to what is effectively the "canon build" for 0dogs. you of all people have done more for the 0dog build then anyone else in D3 so I don't think there is anything to be insecure about your guide :)

the "problem" i have with your guide is simply because it is THE default guide for 0dog and how strongly you spoke against builds that may focus on slower APS within the guide. the requirement set forth in your guide is 2 APS which IMO is quite high. I understand where you are coming from because it synergize well with health globes/gruesome feast, and for the master, however, BECAUSE it is THE 0dog guide that people are not even trying to explore beyond what you have set forth as "requirements" of this build. anyone speak otherwise would be branded "heretics" in their view and appear as if they are giving negative feedback. :D

what I'm trying to point out (which go up directly against your guide of high APS) is that since 1.08 encourage a much more group oriented gameplay, the extra survivability offered by the high APS may not be required. the gear selection towards more crit damage and intellect may help the overall kill speed of the group. within my variant build, I specifically warn people using it that they WILL die alot more :D however I think once they start seeing those large crit numbers they will be able to make a determination if the low APS style fits their personality/play style better.

for example. if someone who only plays with a RL friend that is a SNS wizzy, they don't actually NEED all that APS to survive. my alternate build simply offers the possibility of trading some of that additional haste into bigger nukes. as far as the health globes... i was SHOCKED to find that other classes seem to THINK that 0dog is ONLY good for health globe production. and they ACTUALLY believe bear build offer higher DPS output then 0dog :D that boggles me to no end... I suppose from their point of view it is valid since 0dog is such an expensive build and for the same budget, bears will almost always out DPS a 0dog. however at MP10 level equipment, 0dog is just as deadly if not more deadly then bears in all situations/affixes.

even within the 0dog community... due to the intrenched view on APS, some even question my ability to farm MP10 due to my seemingly low APS :D it's pretty much at this point i decided that there should be a counterpoint offered to demonstrate there are alternative play styles within the 0dog build and it is in fact very viable and group friendly. with an increased emphasis on grouping in 1.08, synergistic groups like 0dog+WW/CM+implosion will become the default group people play with. the future of D3 will focus on group member selection as much as gear selection and from THAT point of view, I feel trading the additional haste for bigger bang will actually increase the overall kill rate of the group.

I guess i simply want to be the guy that brings the DPS but ALSO bring health globes. instead of that guy who brings the health globes and also provides some dps.


Again I think it's great that you are venturing into other unorthodox avenues for the 0 Dog build *but* my argument is this:

Lets say you have a *new* player to the WD class and they want to start playing 0 Dog do you really want to advise them on a build such as what you are suggesting? First off your build mainly focuses on a group play environment, yes ppl are going to start playing more in groups with p1.0.8 but you don't want to pigeon hole your peers into a build that will only work well for one type of job.

I know my guide comes off as the only build guide for 0 Dog, I am going to add a disclaimer to my update to inform ppl otherwise. The Guide I wrote is focused on solo *and* group play not just one or the other, furthermore if ppl who are new to the build were to follow your advice I can easily see them dying excessively especially in solo play, which in turn would make them either quit 0 Dog altogether, quit the WD class, or both. I don't want this for anyone, I want to do my best to try and help *new* players into the build be successful with their first 0 Dog build and then once they have a bit of a handle on the build then they can start doing more experimenting to see if they can find alternatives to fit their so called play style.

I have seen many variations of the 0 Dog build and watched several streamers to get ideas of how other players play the build. I've seen their pro's and con's and although I do agree some changes need to be made to my guide i still stand by it as a good reference for anyone new to the build as a place to start.

In regards to your suggested build I'm glad that it's something that seems to work well for u and your play style even though its not exactly my cup of tea that doesn't make it a bad build but for newbies so to speak I'm sorry to say I will not recommend it, its nothing personal but I want the players seeking advice from my guide to be successful with their 1st build so to speak and if they are able to follow what I have laid out for them they should do well, meaning being able to kill stuff at a reasonable rate and not die excessively.

I hope this clears up my motives for my guide and that it is not the end all be all to the 0 Dog build, consider it a starting point for new players.
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One other thing when comparing Bears to 0 Dog, between the two builds it is a close race when it comes to dps. I've seen some pretty fast killing bears players on mp10 and besides myself i've also seen some very fast 0 dog players on mp10. Which is faster well from my observations I have to be completely honest here 0 Dog wins, WHY? For a few reasons:

1. 0 Dog never run's out of mana so there is no dps down time due to mana issues like bears.

2. 0 Dog can face tank most of mp10 so there is rarely any kiting involved which with the average bear player there is usually some sort of kitting involved which again is a dps loss.

3. 0 Dog has no aiming issues, where ever u stand u will deal 1100% dmg within a 12 yard radius. Bears on the other hand have serious aiming issues, meaning the kinda have a mind of their own which again is a dps loss and furthermore you dont always hit your target with all 3 bears at once but 99% of the time with 0 Dog u will hit your target with no aiming issues. I say 99% of the time because there are certain area's in D3 such as stairways and tight corners where 0 Dogs run into problems with hitting their target but as long as you're aware of it, you can avoid it.

I use to play Bears way back when and although I did have fun with them for the time I ran them I still grew frustrated with the bad mechanics of the build which is why I switched to 0 Dog and nvr looked back.

Now if and when Blizzard creates a new 0 Dog mojo for the upcoming itemization patch, that will ultimately push the 0 Dog build way over the top and allowing players with a lower budget build able to beat out any bears player in the game and that is something im really looking forward to because I would love to see more 0 Dog players.
Edited by heyguyslol#1302 on 5/1/2013 4:19 PM PDT
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05/01/2013 01:15 PMPosted by cloudsalot
So what is the best gem to put in your weapon, crit or damge?


d3up.com
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Lets say you have a *new* player to the WD class and they want to start playing 0 Dog do you really want to advise them on a build such as what you are suggesting? First off your build mainly focuses on a group play environment, yes ppl are going to start playing more in groups with p1.0.8 but you don't want to pigeon hole your peers into a build that will only work well for one type of job.


yes very good point. I need to revise my guide to emphasize the fact that it is definitely not designed for beginners. in my head, i kinda just figured by naming it an evolution build people can understand it's not a something they should try as a 1st attempt into 0dog, or even any WD build. the gears i listed are among some of the most expensive since i start with a 3 piece build and doesn't even include the possibility of a 4 or 5 piece build. i should make the emphasis that a 4 or 5 piece build will absolutely not work with it because your crits will simply not be high enough to sustain your heals.
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05/01/2013 01:15 PMPosted by cloudsalot
So what is the best gem to put in your weapon, crit or damge?


for dogs its ruby usually, http://www.d3rawr.com/e d3up.com / http://d3.muri.se/comparison/

edit-and of course u can view your profile here http://www.diabloprogress.com

happy hunting
Edited by Xievious#1157 on 5/3/2013 4:13 AM PDT
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@ heyguyslol ,the second i realized the guide was for newbs i stopped pushing the templar and some other thoughts i had, i think myself and others because u did such a wonderful job, thought u had set out on making the most comprehensive guide to zdogs ever. that said, some of out idieas are on the more creative side.or for much more advanced and geared players. changing to the mindset that you are trying to provide entry lvl players insights to building and becoming the most efficient dogger out the door is more your goal, though the guide already does that so updating it only adds to ur uberness.

@psyclum that looks fun to try ! ;D
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hey folks. i'm not new to 0dogs, but i wanted some input. i'm sitting on 1bill and debating what should be my most prevalent upgrade. any suggestions would be excellent. thank you. :)
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Free advice, drop pierce the veil and replace it with zombie handler. Now you have 4 dogs to blow up instead of 3. 1100% weapon damage per attack.
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1 Orc Shaman
0
Posts: 9,054
So I know that paper dps is somewhat misleading for this build, but is there a recommended amount for handling mp10 solo and with others?

I'm slowly collecting gear for this and I'm curious about what kind of weapon I should buy. I'm in the budget build category of players, so I'm using a mara's with no dps stats :P
Edited by Swampdonkey#1153 on 5/3/2013 6:40 AM PDT
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When I hit 120k dps with my SoJ MP8 was easy but MP10 was still a grind. MP10 was better when I hit 150k dps with my SoJ.
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05/03/2013 05:49 AMPosted by enigmas
hey folks. i'm not new to 0dogs, but i wanted some input. i'm sitting on 1bill and debating what should be my most prevalent upgrade. any suggestions would be excellent. thank you. :)


Well as someone alrdy stated I recommend dropping PtV and picking up ZH. Next I'd get rid of that EF and get yourself a LS rare black dmg sword, also work on bumping up your attack speed, and depending on what mp you are farming, if u are doing mp10 go with vit gems over int for now till your gear gets a bit better, you will die less. Try not to fret about how much paper dps u have, instead concentrate on staying alive as you get better with the build then u can start toning down your survivability and start bumping up the dps more.

Just my 2 cents

But it has come to my attention recently that there are actually some players who play the 0 Dog build who enjoy dying and dying excessively as that seems to fit their play style. I am not one of those players but if you are then you can forgo the vit gems and stick with int gems. The guide I wrote is meant to target newer 0 Dog players who wish to stay alive as their play style.
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ah, i don't use ptv 99.999999% of the time. i was power lvling someone last night and just goofing off with skills, forgot to switch it back. zh is the standard of course. as i am now, i don't die often mp10. thanks guys.
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Switch your weapon to a black weapon as heyguys said. I got one with int, cd and os on it you can borrow if you want to test it out. No LS on it tho. Those bracers you got are nice, but if you end up needing more APS you can get a Lacuni Prowler with cc, globe bonus, ar for like 100m. APS is sort of a topic right now, but if you end up needing more APS with similar stats compared to your bracers (except for almost 300 int), Lacuni wouldn't break the bank with your current budget. That will come the more you fine tune your WD to your liking. I personally went with as much AS as I can get with my spec as I found that even tho low APS has the capability to produce higher numbers, it doesn't make up for the more consistent life steal I was getting from a spec with more APS. Higher numbers doesn't necessarily mean faster ls.

***Just checked, sword doesn't have cd. My bad. No worries if you still need it tho.
Edited by LordAmsa#1453 on 5/3/2013 10:46 AM PDT
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ooooh i would love to test it if you don't mind. looking into black weps now. itching for upgrades......
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Ok.
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@heyguyslol:

About the upcoming itemization (date unknown)... Developers have given the hints of buffing the legendaries... Even making level 63 legendaries depending on the monster's level... With this, I'm anxious to upgrade my gear further... I have gold lots of it but with this itemization, do you think its better to wait for it?
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@heyguyslol:

About the upcoming itemization (date unknown)... Developers have given the hints of buffing the legendaries... Even making level 63 legendaries depending on the monster's level... With this, I'm anxious to upgrade my gear further... I have gold lots of it but with this itemization, do you think its better to wait for it?


Well I dont know how much u know about Blizzard but they have a history of moving slower than turtles when it comes to game development, with that said I'd go ahead and buy any upgrades you are interested in because its going to be a loooooooonng time b4 blizzard gets their act together and puts out the itemization patch. Or you could do what I'm doing and go play Marvel Hero's until blizzard releases the patch and save your gold till then.
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1 Orc Shaman
0
Posts: 9,054
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Swampdonkey-1153/hero/14488293

I'm on my way!
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Hoping to get some advice from experienced 0dog wd's

Always admired the build and recently switched over from my wiz so still putting my wd set together.

At the moment my ASP is at 2.1 and struggling in mp10 when it comes to aoe, pools etc. Also found that against bosses like butcher i couldn't faceroll like an SNS but had to pay acreful attention and react to what was happening.

Is this normal? What else do I need to work on to be mp10/uber viable? Is it possible/are there any strats to soloing ubers?
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Wanted to drop in and say thanks for the guide, it's been incredibly helpful.

On a somewhat offtopic note (and maybe some help to the posters above looking for weaps), I found my weapon yesterday on the AH for 500k. I shudder to think of how many "Tulwars" I've left lay on the ground because I thought they had 0 chance of being decent, but this one is crazy. 1072 dps without the ruby. Just to satisfy my own curiousity, what would you value this weapon at? At last, one the flippers didn't get. :D
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