Diablo® III

New games aimed at dumb and dumber ?

Why does it feels new games tend to have less complexity than their predecessor ? D3 is an example that's basically in front of our nose, but it's not the only one. Look at X-Com:Enemy Unknown and compared the targeting system to the old X-Com. Or, even look at Skyrim, Skyrim is a great game but compared the spell system and alchemy to Oblivion, and you will find it far more simple.

So why you guys think the reason ?

1. Simple non complex game are more enjoyable for most people
2. Most humans are getting dumber and dumber every generations
3. Too many Games Director come from Technical side, so that they implemented KISS principle on the game design.
4. It's easier to find mods that make game more complex than make it simpler.
Reply Quote
I'd say #1 mainly.

As for #2 that's not true for anything because we are "smarter" than people in general of times past...we do seem to be physically lazier and less inclined to be curteous and civilized to others due to not having to face people in real life. = )
Reply Quote
Here is the reason, and it's quite simple. Gaming is way more popular than it ever has been before. What does this mean? The target audience has shifted away from people who view video games as a part of their life, and play nearly every day -- aka "Hardcore" gamers. Companies are now targeting the majority of gamers, who only play maybe a few hours a week, and don't really care to invest much time in one particular game.

Now I really don't want to get into any crazy debate about how casual gamers are ruining games, and I also want to point out that I'm not implying that casual gamers are horrible people or anything, but this is simply the way it is.
Edited by Mephasm#1905 on 2/1/2013 2:32 PM PST
Reply Quote
a kid/teen need to ask their parent for videogames money
an adult can buy as many games as they wish

why would you target kids and teens?

adults dont want hardcore games, they want to make time fly when idle situations occur
Edited by Tgod#1757 on 2/1/2013 2:40 PM PST
Reply Quote
people have less attention span. games appeal to wider audiences and big titles need to make money.
therefore its not economically profitable to make a complex game or take risks with games

if a risky game fails, then the company fails.

its the same reason its really tough to make a big game as an indy dev nowadays. you need lots of money to put in and the investors are wary of a failure. same reason why theres few huge publishers left and tons died.

and its not just games, its movies as well. ideas are being recycled most of the time because no one is willing to take a risk and create something good but nonmarketable as opposed to something streamlined but popular
Reply Quote
Its a balance between hardcores and casuals, Good thing we hardcores have other options.
Reply Quote
02/01/2013 04:02 PMPosted by grepman
people have less attention span. games appeal to wider audiences and big titles need to make money.


lol i swear when i read that i misread the word titles (substituting L for another T; made for some interesting context).

anyhow, i do agree with your post in general. Whenever a game is sponsored by big money, investors are looking to maximize the return. Lets face it, since increased availability and popularity of video games, the user base broadens. While we are not actually getting "dumber" as a race, even though it feels that way sometimes, originally video games appealed to more narrow, more intelligent (subjectively, of course) base of users and catered to them primarily. Since, at this point of time, video games, as an industry, went very much mainstream, it tends to be designed with broader interests in mind. Aspect of the game that would be overly demanding would make general every day user dislike the game. Those analysts in big money companies realize it all too well, and advise strategies based on profitability, rather that something as silly in corporate world as loyalty to fans and keeping the brand name to par (we are talking about D3 here, right ?).

The only hope we, as gamers of the past, had left is with indy developers that do not (yet) have boards looking over their shoulders, guiding. Or adapting///
Reply Quote
I got one qualm about the title.

I hope Dark Souls 2 doesn't make an easy mode as the "required" or "forced" or "recommended" difficulty if it does.
Reply Quote
02/01/2013 02:39 PMPosted by Tgod
adults dont want hardcore games, they want to make time fly when idle situations occur


I think this is it. Back in the day, there were less choices. We could afford to spend all of our time on one overly complicated game. We had few games to play and when we did, we made it count.

Now some of us who remember the "good old days", don't have the same kind of time in our adult life. some of us *gasp* may even have families now and we can't just sit in front of the computer for hours everyday. And there are others, like me, who seem to get bored quicker of the games I come across and need to change it up more often. I'd rather experience new things, than to try and be the best Dota 2 player of all time, or to explore every freakin possible skill tree path in Path of Exile. Being an adult with a full time job, gives me the ability to buy more games than I could when I was a teenager. I'll play these games a while, when they are good I make it to about 100+ hours and move on.

Every game shouldn't have to feel like you're practicing rocket surgery. It's ok for a game to be simple AND fun. People just throw this "dumb-down" label on some games to make people feel bad for liking it, when it doesn't always deserve it. Especially when some people equate Complexity with counter-intuitiveness.
Reply Quote
adults dont want hardcore games, they want to make time fly when idle situations occur


I think this is it. Back in the day, there were less choices. We could afford to spend all of our time on one overly complicated game. We had few games to play and when we did, we made it count.

Now some of us who remember the "good old days", don't have the same kind of time in our adult life. some of us *gasp* may even have families now and we can't just sit in front of the computer for hours everyday. And there are others, like me, who seem to get bored quicker of the games I come across and need to change it up more often. I'd rather experience new things, than to try and be the best Dota 2 player of all time, or to explore every freakin possible skill tree path in Path of Exile. Being an adult with a full time job, gives me the ability to buy more games than I could when I was a teenager. I'll play these games a while, when they are good I make it to about 100+ hours and move on.

Every game shouldn't have to feel like you're practicing rocket surgery. It's ok for a game to be simple AND fun. People just throw this "dumb-down" label on some games to make people feel bad for liking it, when it doesn't always deserve it. Especially when some people equate Complexity with counter-intuitiveness.


Okay that's a good point.

So, 10-15 years ago, when window is something that stuck on the wall and elephant still reproduce by laying eggs, the proportion of gamers are unlike today.

At those golden age, potential target for gaming industry are majorly kids and teenager, at those time, adult that spend their time playing games are frowned upon by society, and are actually the minority of gamers. So most gamers at that time are full time gamer, that spend all their leisure time playing games and their school time dreaming about games.

Fast forward 10-15 years, Those full time gamers are now have grown into adult and some percentage of them are still so obsessive with game that despite having spouse and raising junior gamers, they managed to get a decent job and can actually spend some significant cash buying tons of games. In addition, the society attitude about adult playing games are not as strict as in old days. Nowadays, even senator played WoW. Thus the gaming industry targeted adult more and more as the potential buyer.

Conclusion : It's not the gamers becoming dumber, they just become adult.
Edited by Squeal#1221 on 2/3/2013 10:41 PM PST
Reply Quote
02/03/2013 10:36 PMPosted by Squeal


I think this is it. Back in the day, there were less choices. We could afford to spend all of our time on one overly complicated game. We had few games to play and when we did, we made it count.

Now some of us who remember the "good old days", don't have the same kind of time in our adult life. some of us *gasp* may even have families now and we can't just sit in front of the computer for hours everyday. And there are others, like me, who seem to get bored quicker of the games I come across and need to change it up more often. I'd rather experience new things, than to try and be the best Dota 2 player of all time, or to explore every freakin possible skill tree path in Path of Exile. Being an adult with a full time job, gives me the ability to buy more games than I could when I was a teenager. I'll play these games a while, when they are good I make it to about 100+ hours and move on.

Every game shouldn't have to feel like you're practicing rocket surgery. It's ok for a game to be simple AND fun. People just throw this "dumb-down" label on some games to make people feel bad for liking it, when it doesn't always deserve it. Especially when some people equate Complexity with counter-intuitiveness.


Okay that's a good point.

So, 10-15 years ago, when window is something that stuck on the wall and elephant still reproduce by laying eggs, the proportion of gamers are unlike today.

At those golden age, potential target for gaming industry are majorly kids and teenager, at those time, adult that spend their time playing games are frowned upon by society, and are actually the minority of gamers. So most gamers at that time are full time gamer, that spend all their leisure time playing games and their school time dreaming about games.

Fast forward 10-15 years, Those full time gamers are now have grown into adult and some percentage of them are still so obsessive with game that despite having spouse and raising junior gamers, they managed to get a decent job and can actually spend some significant cash buying tons of games. In addition, the society attitude about adult playing games are not as strict as in old days. Nowadays, even senator played WoW. Thus the gaming industry targeted adult more and more as the potential buyer.

Conclusion : It's not the gamers becoming dumber, they just become adult.


Exactly.

It's not about being dumber, it's about having other commitments aside from games.

Yes, there were adults playing games back in the Nintendo and Atari era, but they were few and far between. The systems, especially NES, were definitely targeted toward children.
Reply Quote


Exactly.

It's not about being dumber, it's about having other commitments aside from games.



thats a generalised perception.. i have a family, am an associate director in a very busy company and i have less times to play games than i did when i was studying.

However, that does not mean i want my games simpler and more stupid. it makes them boring... Why would I want to play boring, stupid, meaningless games in the only few hours i can spare to play? why play at all ?

ridiculous argument..
Edited by MGH#1860 on 2/5/2013 3:20 AM PST
Reply Quote
been playing games since i was a kid, new games are just more stupid, it's not exactly the adult becoming more stupid just companies put less in quality and more in trying to get the largest target audience consumer base, aka hit everything casuals, hardcore, idiots, smarties etc. unfortunately doing so just makes your game pure crap.

d3 for instance, CLEARLY catered for casuals and trying to appeal to hardcore at the same time, end result you get a bunch of audience members shouting this and that and others saying dont change it and you just dont know where to go from there, and the fact that they put an AH in just maens they stapled their own foot to the floor because now nothing can be fixed and people get more pissed if they spent money on RMAH items
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 2/5/2013 4:22 AM PST
Reply Quote
83 Gnome Mage
7610
Posts: 3,740
thats a generalised perception.. i have a family, am an associate director in a very busy company and i have less times to play games than i did when i was studying.

However, that does not mean i want my games simpler and more stupid. it makes them boring... Why would I want to play boring, stupid, meaningless games in the only few hours i can spare to play? why play at all ?

Don't go off the deep end there. Nobody is saying they want to play a "boring, stupid, meaningless game". But if you have a job that requires you to think all day, making important decisions, planning things out, you want a game that lets you relax and have fun.
If you have that in a job, and you want the same thing in a game, then you probably either have some kind of hyper-competitive personality disorder, or a stress addiction.
Reply Quote
02/05/2013 07:46 AMPosted by Shortydoowop
If you have that in a job, and you want the same thing in a game, then you probably either have some kind of hyper-competitive personality disorder, or a stress addiction


i just enjoy overcoming challenge in a game ... coming home facing a challenge i can beat in increments, day by day is therapeutic ( as some challenges in the office can take months to resolve and projects run for several years )

but don't get me wrong, diablo 2 was never really a taxing game.. it actually was quite casual the way i played it .. would spend 2 or 3 hours thinking about the character i was creating, while levelling , distributing the stats and skills and repeat... It was a nice wind down if my brain was already fried...

However diablo 3 is so dumbed down to the extent that imagining a character build and testing it simply does not even exist as part of the gameplay anymore...

Thankfully path of exile has filled this void brilliantly so i now alternate between SC2 and PoE.. ( SC2 when im feeling alert and ready to compete, PoE when i feel like leaning back in chair and testing a build ) .. Still like to browse the D3 forums for state of the game though..

you have to admit.. the dumbing down of not just games in general but franchises is a bit sad .. Its fine for farmvilles etc to be created for the casual crowd, but to take a successful game and try to make it appeal to the farmville audience is going to snowball into half - baked solutions nobody cares for - ala D3
Edited by MGH#1860 on 2/6/2013 1:01 AM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]