Diablo® III

Why barbs are OP (after leveling all classes to 60)

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02/07/2013 09:24 PMPosted by ZingyDNA
Except the other classes with godly gear tried to compete with barbs in speed boss kills. And they all failed. There is a difference between paper doll dps and effective dps in battle. Barbs just happen to have the greatest magnifying factor to go from the former to the latter. No to mention their survivability in high MPs, so they're getting the best from both defensive and offensive aspects. I rolled a barb for precisely that reason, and I'm not gonna be hypocritical to deny I'm enjoying those benefits of that class.


Just because there's a few Barbs having the dough and time to master speed kill, doesn't mean Barbs are OP. Paper DPS is all we got. Until someone figures out how to calculate effective DPS, and have 50K+ players sign on to that program, we have no better comparison than paper DPS. I am not saying Barbs are weak. Each class has its own strength. People know exactly what they are getting into when they create their own characters. Taking a few outliers and call the other class OP is simply seeing the grass on the other side greener. Just roll another character, and enjoy the game. You did that, I did that, OP did that.
Edited by GChiu#1830 on 2/7/2013 10:03 PM PST
My cheap barbarian face rolls almost equally as good as my expensive demon hunter.

Barbarians are OP. Just accept it. Even I accepted it and made one as my second character.
Sigh...
Are you really oblivious to the fact that we are quoting the most recognized stats that is used in this game?


Are you seriously trying to tell me that paper doll dps is the best way to measure dps? It's 'recognized' because it's convenient, but it's a piss-poor metric for comparing between classes.

You keep asking us to show proof. We have shown you a list of 50K+ players on a well recognized website, using the most recognized stats. All you've got is a few Barbs that have insane gears on. You really think that represents the Barbs population?


The top barb paper doll dps is 30% lower than the top wizard dps. If you think this is a good metric to determine kill speed, that wizard should be able to kill azmodan mp10 in about 7seconds. The reality? I'd be VERY surprised if they can go sub-20seconds. 30+seconds is more likely. Don't you see how meaningless dps on the char sheet is yet?
The Barb is not the problem, it's the budget gear available for all other classes that's the real prob.
I'm not in favor of nerfing any class. Each character is interesting in its own way. My primary concern involves best in slot gear. It seems like everyone is forced into using specific items or they suffer drastically. I wish I had an alternative to viles. I don't know a great deal about other classes, but it seems, as far as DH are concerned at least, that you have few options past a certain point. A dead man's is essential for example. I wish I had more options as far as gear is concerned. I like the idea of being able to gear around my specific build or playstyle. As for the OP, I agree that barbs can be geared to run high mp more easily than any other class, but I don't feel that a nerf is needed so much as an increase in gear choices for other classes. Besides, most of my drops are gear for barbs, so it's easier to sell them on AH if everyone likes to spin around all the time.
02/07/2013 01:06 PMPosted by Atomize
As it goes for the DPS, I have read that it is very hard to compare real DPS. I can just tell from DiabloPorgress that barbs are definitely not leading DPS-wise. More I cannot tell.


How can you say that? These meaningless numbers are higher than these other meaningless numbers... So barbs must have low dps! Please, show me an instance of this insane ranged damage that barbs cannot beat in practice.


Exactly. Diabloprogress only record meaningless numbers. Only clueless people try to gear like those 'top ten elites' in Diabloprogress. Few good stuffs are that price of gears are increased because of it, and a rough idea on what you have to buy to copy them.

Check out my Barb and maybe see for yourself that the damage he deal is what stated in the profile.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that paper doll dps is the best way to measure dps? It's 'recognized' because it's convenient, but it's a piss-poor metric for comparing between classes.


Paper DPS is not the best way, but is the best we have. See below:

02/07/2013 10:01 PMPosted by GChiu
Until someone figures out how to calculate effective DPS, and have 50K+ players sign on to that program, we have no better comparison than paper DPS.


The top barb paper doll dps is 30% lower than the top wizard dps. If you think this is a good metric to determine kill speed, that wizard should be able to kill azmodan mp10 in about 7seconds. The reality? I'd be VERY surprised if they can go sub-20seconds. 30+seconds is more likely. Don't you see how meaningless dps on the char sheet is yet?


Again, you are taking a few outliers generalizing the whole Barbs population. It'll probably take me 10 minutes to kill Azmodan on MP10 using my Barb. Does that mean Barbs are weak? No! It just means I am not adequately geared.

You continue to bring up effective DPS, yet you contradict yourself by bringing up a specific one on one situation to make your point. Why don't you throw in a formula that would include DPS to multiple targets? See below:

02/07/2013 10:01 PMPosted by GChiu
Each class has its own strength. People know exactly what they are getting into when they create their own characters. Taking a few outliers and call the other class OP is simply seeing the grass on the other side greener.
(Assuming MP > 0)

If Barbs are OP, it's only because Rend + Blood Lust pretty much removes the need to stack Regen, LOH, or LOK. But, it does severely limit your build choices. Even if you choose to include other resource burners, you still have to spam Rend to stay alive.

And you're spamming Rend, so you need consistently good fury gains. So that means one or more passive and skill choices made solely based on fury generation.

So, yes, Barb is OP if you like throwing build choices away. I personally don't mind, because I'd rather compromise my skill choices to save money on the AH. But, if you feel differently, no, Barb isn't OP.
I play a monk and a wizard. I started with a DH but ended up retiring it after putting in more than 150m into it and realizing the class itself is flawed in a few ways. My friend plays a barbarian. Here's what I've noticed through us playing and sometime cross-playing when we hang out:

1) Budget barbs are significantly easier to gear than other classes. There's multiple reasons as to why (at least 4 come to my head but I can probably come up with 5-6). I believe OP's barb budget because I helped gear my friend's barb and it is quite effective for being about 20 mil.

2) Barbs have extremely and surprisingly high multipliers for real DPS. Some people pretend that paper DPS is king but anyone who knows anything intricate about this game knows that is a common and often-times hilarious fallacy. My wiz (SNS, at that!) has about 7x multiplier. My friend's barb: at least 8.5x in HOTA, roughly 6-7x in WW.

3) Barbs' resource generation and life generation has a higher hard-cap than other classes. Barb has more natural LS, comparable regeneration passives, and higher regeneration synergy. Barbs' skills synergize for regeneration while other classes synergize with gear, leading back to the problem outlined in point 1.

4) Barbs' damage output is not soft-capped like other classes. TR monks and WDs, ya kno'...

OP does a great job communicating his perspective on the situation, and I have to agree with almost everything he said and how he said it (especially his polite responses to some people in this thread who can't pass 10th grade reading comprehension)

Also the fallacies that some people exhibit...lol...
What else is the barb to do if we have gimp way of regaining life? Die to every elite pack we come across? frozen/feared/knockback/jailed , maybe if they make WOTB like smoke screen, cost fury for a 5-10 sec buff they can nerf our life steal. Melee characters need to be able to stay alive while getting beat on, Just the nature of the class. Besides i'd say we are the worst at farming low level MP, just because our need to Thrive on Chaos!!
not this !@#$ty barb OP page again geeezzz.
If we are associating cost of gearing with being OP then you are mistaken. It cost less to gear a barb because it is the only class with strength as the primary attribute. DH and Monk compete, and so does WD and Wiz, for the same main attributes.

If there was another class that used strength as the main attribute... then cost would rise.
02/08/2013 01:59 AMPosted by Warbear
not this !@#$ty barb OP page again geeezzz.


Don't worry buddy. Soon the new game director will nerf barbs then you can occupy your time QQing.


As for my barb, I didn't put much gold on it, not more than 10mil for sure. And I can farm MP8 easily with a rend build. I tried MP10, just to see, and I killed the first pack I saw without dying. So, IMO, barbs are much more powerful than other classes, because they have huge buffs of DPS and defense, and it cost so little gold to gear. For less than 10mil, I can have a DPS of 190K with in game buffs, and still have lots of armor and resists, and a good amount of life.

I know my barb isn't that great, but I can still farm MP8 without dying.

You're waiting for wotb insanity to be off cool down to kill elites. You got 190k buffed dps with wotb insanity, good for you. You have no idea how to play a barb, please gtfo.
not this !@#$ty barb OP page again geeezzz.


Don't worry buddy. Soon the new game director will nerf barbs then you can occupy your time QQing.
You sound very butt hurt buddy, bad news for you though. Blizzard has no intentions to do class balancing around PVE. The upcoming balancing will be surrounded by PVP, barbs are by far the worst class in PVP atm, so why would they expect to be nerfed?
Edited by ImmortalKing#1296 on 2/8/2013 8:02 AM PST
02/08/2013 12:12 AMPosted by HachiKumo


How can you say that? These meaningless numbers are higher than these other meaningless numbers... So barbs must have low dps! Please, show me an instance of this insane ranged damage that barbs cannot beat in practice.


Exactly. Diabloprogress only record meaningless numbers. Only clueless people try to gear like those 'top ten elites' in Diabloprogress. Few good stuffs are that price of gears are increased because of it, and a rough idea on what you have to buy to copy them.

Check out my Barb and maybe see for yourself that the damage he deal is what stated in the profile.
Your gear is terrible and your build is ridiculous, please find a thread you belong in.
02/08/2013 08:00 AMPosted by ImmortalKing
Blizzard has no intentions to do class balancing around PVE.


Blue quote?

02/08/2013 08:00 AMPosted by ImmortalKing
The upcoming balancing will be surrounded by PVP, barbs are by far the worst class in PVP atm, so why would they expect to be nerfed?


There's about 10 good reasons already well articulated in this thread. Please go read.
this made me lol... clearly you havnt played PTR at all and see how friggen OP monks are right now
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