Diablo® III

Talk me into or out of a Witching Hour

I'll give up the resists and the life steal for basically 30k damage. I uber quite a bit and often carry 3 dead for most of the SK/Mag fight.
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02/02/2013 05:37 AMPosted by DrFish
I'll give up the resists and the life steal for basically 30k damage.


And melee reduction of 3 pc IK. First, I don't understand why you use Blood Thirst with your current gear, instead of Tough as Nails or Superstition. With decent DPS and 5-6% life steal, mitigation beats additional life steal. If you're not using a mitigation skill, you may as well get the WH because you're not doing much with the passive slot anyways.

Are you doing the WW build vs. ubers or HotA? If WW, does the attack speed make any difference?

What about a WH with all resist? Mine is something like 180 STR, 40 phys resist, 55 all resist... wasn't too expensive. It gives me more EHP than one with some VIT. But I always err on the side of EHP for uber carries, and so I use LS belt, LS offhand, and mitigation passive for MP10. (Obviously the gear currently in my profile is not my uber carry set.)
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When I look at my profile I don't see a 3 piece set bonus anymore. So I'm not sure I'd be giving anything up there. Also, I haven't really strayed from Bloodthirst too much. When I swapped to Tough as Nails before I didn't notice any difference. Seemed like I was maybe a tad softer, but that was quite a while ago. I don't think I've ever used Superstition at all. I've sort of just found something that works using Bloodthirst and never strayed. For ubers when I know that I'm going to need to carry I normally use a ww build. If there is anybody else in the group that has a decent shot at not getting killed I will swap Overpower for HOTA. I have used a HOTA/Rend build successfully also, but typically just stick to ww.
I'm pretty sure that 9% attack speed does not take me to the next breakpoint for either weapon, but I'm not 100% sure what that breakpoint is. Right now I think I'm just barely hitting the 2.501 with both weapons with wrath up.
Also, I have played with a loaner WH before (only tried A3 MP10). It was a 163 str, 98 vit, 9/50. I could tell that I was doing a little bit more damage, but I did notice that my health globe moved a little more than it does with the IK belt. Not to the point where I felt like I could be killed, but I could definitely notice !@#$ moving a little more.

For me I need to be able to do more damage....that is the bottom line. Just not sure if a WH is where I should be looking.
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9ias will not put you into the next breakpoint. All you will get with a WH is 50cd. If you dont mind using bloodthirst, you could drop LS from EF and add crit to get the same performance.

Another option is to get an 8ias axe with same stats and that would put you into 2.86/2.5.
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If you get a witching hour, definitely get one with at least 60 all resist. Losing your IK belt will definitely hurt you more than you realize in ubers. Not only that but your sustain will go down a noticeable amount and if you didn't like they way your health globe moved in just act 3 with a WH belt, you'll definitely not be comfortable doing ubers. You have a nicely built barb as is with pretty balanced stats, I wouldn't start to rock the boat or weaken yourself just for the sake of chasing a little more paper DPS. If you really want to decrease your kill times in ubers and up your damage output I would suggest a 1350+ DPS LS Skorn and use a WW/HoTA hybrid build similar to what I'm using. Doing that will also mean you need a IAS pair of IK gloves to make it work instead of your CD gloves. The damage output is just nuts though, with each HoTA crit at about 2m and your nado's ticking for 80-90k damage it just melts them.
Edited by Death#1408 on 2/3/2013 9:38 AM PST
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I'll give up the resists and the life steal for basically 30k damage.


And melee reduction of 3 pc IK. First, I don't understand why you use Blood Thirst with your current gear, instead of Tough as Nails or Superstition. With decent DPS and 5-6% life steal, mitigation beats additional life steal. If you're not using a mitigation skill, you may as well get the WH because you're not doing much with the passive slot anyways.

Are you doing the WW build vs. ubers or HotA? If WW, does the attack speed make any difference?

What about a WH with all resist? Mine is something like 180 STR, 40 phys resist, 55 all resist... wasn't too expensive. It gives me more EHP than one with some VIT. But I always err on the side of EHP for uber carries, and so I use LS belt, LS offhand, and mitigation passive for MP10. (Obviously the gear currently in my profile is not my uber carry set.)


The melee reduction isn't that big of a deal. It's great to have, next to useless in practice from my experience. I used to try and grab them for the extra EHP bonuses I would get on my DProg profile.

I'm with VeePow and PhatPhoEater on this one though. If you're going to commit to the Witching Hour, you might as well replace your gloves and get to the next breakpoint -- no sense in limiting your build by going half-way.

I do agree that you need to get a Witching Hour with resists though. You're already on the average to low-average spectrum of resists. Losing that AR will make it more difficult to handle Seige and reflect damage/health link elites.
Edited by acrimony#1561 on 2/3/2013 9:48 AM PST
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Love your current set up Fish, I wouldn't change any gear atm. I'm assuming you got the breakpoint you want. You might conisder using Brawler instead of Bloodthirst. Especially after the patch reflect/health link will be much easier.
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02/03/2013 09:37 AMPosted by Death
If you really want to decrease your kill times in ubers and up your damage output I would suggest a 1350+ DPS LS Skorn and use a WW/HoTA hybrid build similar to what I'm using.


Do you know how quickly you clear each portal? I find it really hard to believe that a Skorn can beat DW+SoJ, but I'd like to know for sure.
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If you really want to decrease your kill times in ubers and up your damage output I would suggest a 1350+ DPS LS Skorn and use a WW/HoTA hybrid build similar to what I'm using.


Do you know how quickly you clear each portal? I find it really hard to believe that a Skorn can beat DW+SoJ, but I'd like to know for sure.


I'm sorry I guess I should have said for ubers that I have a 6/30 SoJ that I replace a ring with and my suggestion for him was also assuming he keep his on. However even without it, I do believe a Skorn is faster given similar gear sets for the simple fact that Skorns hit like a run away dump truck and the 2m+ crits landed by HoTA are not calculated in metrics like D3Rawr's tDPS measurement.

I don't have my exact figures for clear times off the top of my head at the moment, but I do remember My Skorn being measurably faster than 2 1-hander weapons I was testing it against.
Edited by Death#1408 on 2/3/2013 10:34 AM PST
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Death, what APS do you have when you do ubers with a SoJ? I'm guessing 1.42 unbuffed if you replace your left ring? It doesn't sound like enough, but I'll have to try it if it works.
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02/03/2013 10:33 AMPosted by Death
However even without it, I do believe a Skorn is faster given similar gear sets for the simple fact that Skorns hit like a run away dump truck and the 2m+ crits landed by HoTA are not calculated in metrics like D3Rawr's tDPS measurement.


dps with hota smash is included under the skill damage tab.
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Interesting batch of comments. It seems that we can all agree that 9 IAS doesn't bring me to the next breakpoint...so really not much there. If I swapped to IAS gloves and a WH I'm sure that I will hit the next breakpoint with 1 weapon, but pretty sure both will not hit. As it sits right now I have successfully carried 3 through the majority of all 3 uber fights. I'm basically trying to add a little cushion so I can revive guys so they have fun too. If I don't lay on the damage pretty much constantly I'm definitely flirting with trouble.
I will not go as far as to say I'm unkillable because that is just plain stupid, but I will say that with the damage that I currently do and the amount of life steal that I have...I'm pretty solid.

Let's make it a little easier 224.7 damage with a SOJ now. Need more damage. Is hitting 2.86 and still doing 250ish worth going after?

Let's find some damage for my barb....Budget is 1.5 billion.
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My barb rocks ubers mp10.

My base dps before buffs is 215k.

with battle rage im constant 280k dps

Pop overpower, which I can keep going because of so much CC I'm at 330K dps almost 95% of the time.

The with beserker......well check my account for yourself and you'll see I'm well over 700k DPS.

While not in beserker I get 1m + crit hits...in beserker well over 3m crit hits.
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My barb rocks ubers mp10.

My base dps before buffs is 215k.

with battle rage im constant 280k dps

Pop overpower, which I can keep going because of so much CC I'm at 330K dps almost 95% of the time.

The with beserker......well check my account for yourself and you'll see I'm well over 700k DPS.

While not in beserker I get 1m + crit hits...in beserker well over 3m crit hits.


I don't think you are helping much....Add me in game so I can see how good you are. I'll cough up the machines for an uber run. I want to believe a 2H can stomp the !@#$ out of them, but I have never seen a really good one. I mean one that is significantly better than a dual wield barb. I know on paper is is definitely possible....just want to see :)

I usually crit like 1.5 - 1.7ish when dual wielding with HOTA ww build.....not sure if that matters??
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02/04/2013 06:32 AMPosted by KainDraven
While not in beserker I get 1m + crit hits...in beserker well over 3m crit hits.


Any geared DW barb gets 1m+ crits with HotA, and at much higher APS than you.

The 3 mil crit with WotB isn't really legit because you're talking about the Insanity rune, which doesn't make sense vs. ubers.
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My barb rocks ubers mp10.

My base dps before buffs is 215k.

with battle rage im constant 280k dps

Pop overpower, which I can keep going because of so much CC I'm at 330K dps almost 95% of the time.

The with beserker......well check my account for yourself and you'll see I'm well over 700k DPS.

While not in beserker I get 1m + crit hits...in beserker well over 3m crit hits.


I don't think you are helping much....Add me in game so I can see how good you are. I'll cough up the machines for an uber run. I want to believe a 2H can stomp the !@#$ out of them, but I have never seen a really good one. I mean one that is significantly better than a dual wield barb. I know on paper is is definitely possible....just want to see :)

I usually crit like 1.5 - 1.7ish when dual wielding with HOTA ww build.....not sure if that matters??


The key is while HOTA and overpower abuse of the "Rend" skill is required with the 9% LS rune. I can even stand face to face with SK while he does his "death wallk".

I won't lie I do go down soemtimes if my timing is off. It's not perfect by any means. Kulle with his "time dome" can be a !@#$% at times.
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While not in beserker I get 1m + crit hits...in beserker well over 3m crit hits.


Any geared DW barb gets 1m+ crits with HotA, and at much higher APS than you.

The 3 mil crit with WotB isn't really legit because you're talking about the Insanity rune, which doesn't make sense vs. ubers.


A lot of stuff I do doesn't make sense but 3m crits X1.5 AS with almost 80% CC for 15second nets me 50-67m damage to the elite.

I make it work.

I perfer not to argue with anyone and that's not my point of posting here. I just like my WH like OP was asking about.

I do need a new one tho with higher Str and all res. I use this one because I found it.

Edit: Forgot to add I don't use hellfire ring in ubers I use 28% SOJ. Takes me down 10K dps, but the extra 28% to elites far out weighs the 15k dps loss.
Edited by KainDraven#1803 on 2/4/2013 6:58 AM PST
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My barb rocks ubers mp10.

My base dps before buffs is 215k.

with battle rage im constant 280k dps

Pop overpower, which I can keep going because of so much CC I'm at 330K dps almost 95% of the time.

The with beserker......well check my account for yourself and you'll see I'm well over 700k DPS.

While not in beserker I get 1m + crit hits...in beserker well over 3m crit hits.


I don't think you are helping much....Add me in game so I can see how good you are. I'll cough up the machines for an uber run. I want to believe a 2H can stomp the !@#$ out of them, but I have never seen a really good one. I mean one that is significantly better than a dual wield barb. I know on paper is is definitely possible....just want to see :)

I usually crit like 1.5 - 1.7ish when dual wielding with HOTA ww build.....not sure if that matters??


Cant wait to see Kain in action with his 36khp with a 1250DPS skorn running uber mp10. From a hero with 700kdps 12secs to a zero after the 12secs. ;p

Or maybe he has some "super skills" hide under his sleeve.
Don't forget to give us a update DrFish. Thanks.
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I don't think you are helping much....Add me in game so I can see how good you are. I'll cough up the machines for an uber run. I want to believe a 2H can stomp the !@#$ out of them, but I have never seen a really good one. I mean one that is significantly better than a dual wield barb. I know on paper is is definitely possible....just want to see :)

I usually crit like 1.5 - 1.7ish when dual wielding with HOTA ww build.....not sure if that matters??


Cant wait to see Kain in action with his 36khp with a 1250DPS skorn running uber mp10. From a hero with 700kdps 12secs to a zero after the 12secs. ;p

Or maybe he has some "super skills" hide under his sleeve.
Don't forget to give us a update DrFish. Thanks.


These forums really are nothing, but a bunch of flamers aren't they.

Nice easy mode "Spin2Win" you got there.
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KainDraven, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here other than to try and boast about your barb. The reality is that your barb is terribly built and nothing you have said here has offerend any constructive advice to anyone. Your resists and HP are comically low and and your skill selections are even worse. Please stop trying to give advice or explain your poor gearing and build selections to those that have infinitely more knowledge of the barb class than you do. Just stop already you're giving us "properly" geared 2H barbs a real bad name with your continued ignorance.
Edited by Death#1408 on 2/4/2013 9:53 AM PST
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