Diablo® III

Should Mana Regen scale with Attack Speed?

So if your combined IAS and weapon speed is 1.9, should 100/s Mana regen be buffed to 190/s? Perhaps through a skill or passive?

Seeing as other classes get more resources if they have more attack speed it would make sense.

I have seen people suggest Mana on crit but this is directly linked to attack speed anyway so why not just scale the Mana Regen with IAS.

What do you guys think?
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mana regen shouldnt be buffed based on our attack speed

its part of the gearing challenge we are forced and it shows who's smarter in the use of our ressource pool and regeneration

blood ritual,spiritual attunement and vision quest all combined with crazy mana regen makes any wd with good survival stat OP

figure out how much mana regen you can get and then base your attack speed to not go over the mana regen/s otherwise you'll run into troubles
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That would be sweet but I think a better, more balanced option would be to do the mana a.s. scalling on the skill side. This is already implemented for most other classes, like for example with barbs whirlwind attack (surprise surprise) but the devs never bothered to do it with any wd skills.
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If they made a significant improvement to mana regen, most WD would probably be able to spam Bears infinitely. Blizz doesn't want this to happen, which is why Vision Quest was nerfed in the first place.

It would be great if some of the benefits we get from passives are available through active skills (mana regen, damage reduction, etc.). I could drop one or two skills if I had to, but definitely feel 'locked' into BR/VQ/SV passives at high MP.
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02/06/2013 12:13 PMPosted by BigRed
If they made a significant improvement to mana regen, most WD would probably be able to spam Bears infinitely. Blizz doesn't want this to happen, which is why Vision Quest was nerfed in the first place.


Blizz doesn't want this to happen... same with Barb being able to spam HotA/ww/permawrath or wiz being able to spam EB/nova/shards/meteor? Even IF I could spam bears infinitely I still would farm slower than my barb who is geared with a fraction of what my WD's gear costs.

I have a hard time understanding why people say 'infinite bear spam would be OP' if even with infinite bear spam... WD still wouldn't be OP compared to other classes. If they allowed infinite bear spam AND made it so bears did not have any casting animation... well then I would say it's a bit OP.... but wait... that's basically what a CM wiz is... no casting animation and unlimited spamability. Just saying. Class mechanics are broken with many builds that are put together.
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02/06/2013 11:36 AMPosted by ChuckNorris
That would be sweet but I think a better, more balanced option would be to do the mana a.s. scalling on the skill side. This is already implemented for most other classes, like for example with barbs whirlwind attack (surprise surprise) but the devs never bothered to do it with any wd skills.

Like your skills cost X Mana per second no matter what your attack speed?
Edited by JangBahadur#1968 on 2/6/2013 2:17 PM PST
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If they made a significant improvement to mana regen, most WD would probably be able to spam Bears infinitely. Blizz doesn't want this to happen, which is why Vision Quest was nerfed in the first place.

It would be great if some of the benefits we get from passives are available through active skills (mana regen, damage reduction, etc.). I could drop one or two skills if I had to, but definitely feel 'locked' into BR/VQ/SV passives at high MP.


Every other class can spam anything infinitely, why can't we? It makes our class boring.. luckily they did a fantastic job with our spell animations and class design so it's still fun to watch/play compared to whirlwind spam or archon spam
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I think witch doctors should get a skill that turns them into a giant ghost that looks like Slimer that pawns everything like the archon and berserker and mana costs are 0. But that will never happen...
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If they made a significant improvement to mana regen, most WD would probably be able to spam Bears infinitely. Blizz doesn't want this to happen, which is why Vision Quest was nerfed in the first place.


Blizz doesn't want this to happen... same with Barb being able to spam HotA/ww/permawrath or wiz being able to spam EB/nova/shards/meteor? Even IF I could spam bears infinitely I still would farm slower than my barb who is geared with a fraction of what my WD's gear costs.

I have a hard time understanding why people say 'infinite bear spam would be OP' if even with infinite bear spam... WD still wouldn't be OP compared to other classes. If they allowed infinite bear spam AND made it so bears did not have any casting animation... well then I would say it's a bit OP.... but wait... that's basically what a CM wiz is... no casting animation and unlimited spamability. Just saying. Class mechanics are broken with many builds that are put together.


I didn't say infinite Bear spam was OP compared with other classes. I said Blizz didn't want it to happen, which they stated back when VQ was nerfed. If your argument to Blizz is "CM wiz perma-freeze mechanic is broken, so please give us a broken mechanic too", best of luck...

If you are successful, I will gladly reap the benefits :)
Edited by BigRed#1100 on 2/6/2013 3:05 PM PST
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I didn't say infinite Bear spam was OP compared with other classes. I said Blizz didn't want it to happen, which they stated back when VQ was nerfed. If your argument to Blizz is "CM wiz perma-freeze mechanic is broken, so please give us a broken mechanic too", best of luck...

If you are successful, I will gladly reap the benefits :)


LoL I hear ya. To say Blizz even knows that Witch Doctors exist would be surprising to me. They really make no moves to improve the class which is still (and has been since game launch) the least played class in the game. You would think that the company would make some advances in the least played class to try to equal out the class distribution.
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Every other class can spam anything infinitely, why can't we? It makes our class boring.. luckily they did a fantastic job with our spell animations and class design so it's still fun to watch/play compared to whirlwind spam or archon spam

Ok so I stacked mana regen on helm, mojo and 1h PLUS I have the 20 regen from Zuni set. I have VQ, SA and BR. 111 mana regen, 141 with VQ. And still I cannot perma spam Acid Cloud! I still OOM in long fights.

Imagine if I tried to aim for 2.00+ ias like every other class.
Edited by JangBahadur#1968 on 2/6/2013 11:47 PM PST
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I disagree that mana regen should scale with attack speed. We are the only class that isn't completely tied to that affix, let's not change that.

Our primaries, however, should be free to cast. That's a few more bears per pool of mana for the VQ/widowmaker/bear crowd and I honestly think that's enough.
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Ok so I stacked mana regen on helm, mojo and 1h PLUS I have the 20 regen from Zuni set. I have VQ, SA and BR. 111 mana regen, 141 with VQ. And still I cannot perma spam Acid Cloud! I still OOM in long fights.

Imagine if I tried to aim for 2.00+ ias like every other class.


I tried the same.. with the same conclusion.
You have to sacrifice many stats to obtain this high manareg and in the end it doesn´t realy pay off.

We are the only class wich not profit from high attack speed.
The only class wich cannot faceroll higher Mp´s with good gear.
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Maybe spiritual attunment can do so. Give us %mana and attune our mana regen to increase with moe attack speed.

It's mana regen currently is useless and does not even count towards the VQ. Blood rituals > Spiritual Attunment
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The problem is our mana returning options (swallow your soul, draining spirit, spirit is willing, devouring swarm) don't scale but is fixed like monk's healing. Those values are fine in normal Inferno, but simply too low in high MP.
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Wtflag
Very good points. I think Draining Spirit is Ok and so it Spirit is Willing. But devouring swarm and swalow your soul, and horrify (ruthless terror) are pretty bad at mana return!

But you are right, if they would scale with mana or mana regen, this would make those abilities much more useful. And it would help with the mana issues, and would allow us to stack attack speed.
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Devouring Swarm is ridiculous in the right hands. One of the strongest mana producers we have. Let's just say it's only the damage that doesn't stack... ;)

On topic though, regen scaling with plvl would be the go in my eyes. But then again, I think there is much that needs to be hitched to plvl. I can't see any other way for the game to go forward.
Edited by manvan#1853 on 2/11/2013 12:29 AM PST
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Rush of Essence and Well of Souls Scales with IAS.

We can totaly nuke the crap out of single targets at high speeds.

Your just not going to do it with anything that's not a spirit spell though.

And Wizards have same problem. There not going to nuke the crap of of stuff with out going omm with out right gear and set up.

There locked into two basic builds that dont go omm. Archon and CMWW.

We have only 1 Spirit.

I would love to see the mana cost of are Primary Skills removed. As we are the only class that is penlized in this way for using a Primary.
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The real problem we have is are Passives.

They req. stuff to die. I knew that would bit us in the ars at higher levels before I got pass Normal.

The only build to go around this problem is Zero Dogs.

Thats are Infinte mana set up right there.

I dont even like Sacrifice so.

Ya if we got better mana reg or are passives would be changed alittle to something that happends when your fighting like crit or something other then stuff dieing Zero Dogs would not be that great of a build.
Edited by Umbra#1460 on 2/11/2013 1:59 AM PST
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Finally had a chance to play with 0dog player, they are awesome! They solve not just their own but everyone else's mana problems too, while at the same time, keeping up double your dps!

Blizz wants people to want more resources.
Don't get me wrong: feeling like you always want more Mana can be a good thing, otherwise the resource system isn’t really doing its job.

From 1.04 patch preview. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6923459/patch-104-preview-witch-doctor-8-16-2012

Should we be able to get unlimited resources? Provided we have used up all the ways of getting that resource ie mana regen on knife +max mana, helm, mojo, plus 3 passives and several active skills.
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