Diablo® III

prepare for SNS to be history tomorrow

do breakpoints still apply?
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So i was playing around with this build aimless, tried out a ton of dif weapons and gear, found a wand with like 1.8% freeze chance, and got thinking about all the procs this build ticks up.... after some time on AH i picked up a cheap azurewrath with 11%~ freeze chance and it procs and freezes things quite a lot, you loose life steal and cd though which is a shame i think it might be something worthwhile to play around with though
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No, to the best of my knowledge (and anecdotal evidence) neither living lightning nor meteor tick rates are effected by IAS in any way.

That said, IAS is extremely important in this build cause you need a pretty constant stream of LL to proc dynamo and APoC. They act closer to Storm Chaser than Wicked Wind, so you wont be able to stack a dozen of them on top of a pack.

The plus side is they cost 0 AP and return a metric ton from APoC if your firing into three targets. Its pretty amazing how quickly your pool refills and AD procs stack up. This isn't even counting the ridiculous amount of electrify and SA procs either.

Still, a major weakness is fast runners. Occultists, Fallen Mages, and Spearmen suck hard core. Not sure how I feel about it. When things go right it really is a ton more damage than SNS, but when things dont go right its actually kinda hard to apply your damage to your target.
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02/07/2013 11:07 PMPosted by Shandlar
That said, IAS is extremely important in this build cause you need a pretty constant stream of LL to proc dynamo and APoC.


I'm not so sure, if cooldowns aren't essential in this build like they are in a freezing build, I think it might be possible to drop IAS (I have no evidence this is just theoretical). why?

Getting 20 APOC isn't that hard, you can get that from just Storm Crow + Oculus/Tal Rasha Source (hell even a wand with APOC would work well, though not chantodos since no LS), so that means you can put on a fat, slow archon wep (think 1100+ dps lots of CHD and LS).

Well if you do that you'll be getting a lot less AP/sec because you'll have less attack speed and if your items are more like an archons (which I think is theoretically compatible), youll be around 37-45 CC, so a lot less than a normal 2.73 50cc cm wizard's rate of APOC, but when you hit that sweet sweet meteor button (eventually, after you've built up your AP), you'll hit 2-3 times as much as a CM from all that CHD and weapon damage you have that CM wizards usually give up for breakpoints (unless BIS fully geared)
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02/07/2013 07:00 AMPosted by RobertVarga
Would love something new, but no freeze is huge disadvantage.


Hmmm, but isn't freeze the same as stun? Hmmm
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Still, a major weakness is fast runners. Occultists, Fallen Mages, and Spearmen suck hard core. Not sure how I feel about it. When things go right it really is a ton more damage than SNS, but when things dont go right its actually kinda hard to apply your damage to your target.


Which is exactly why the build I used to run had Frost Nova instead of Storm Armor, everything else equal. Did some testing tonight and SA's eDPS increase is enormous (not surprisingly), and LS is almost a must compared to LoH (also not surprising). I'm just gonna chalk it up as pros and cons =/
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Tried this real quick. I can't even solo MP6 that well. Had to kite with teleport against Elites. When my friend is on some time I'll have her freeze and me do this build as intended.
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cry babies need freeze why not just make a kill-them-all-button for u whiners? would that make u happy?

My point is this brings the more pain as long as u balance skills.
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It's pretty fun. Freeze makes everything more predictable and efficient though.

Can't say I wouldn't use this build for occasions where I don't need to freeze.
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02/08/2013 12:19 AMPosted by Aimless
My point is this brings the more pain as long as u balance skills.


Proof? :)
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02/07/2013 08:00 PMPosted by Aphraell
I hope people dont misconstrue my posts on this build. Its still a very good build and something different to Archon and CM freeze builds. I'm jsut argueing its not as good as SNS-Electrify.


02/07/2013 08:09 PMPosted by Alesso
Aph should do a MasterJay style test vs. actual elite packs (re: no Ghom) and give us the straight up


02/07/2013 08:00 PMPosted by Aphraell
Single Targets = NOTHING, you get the 10% to paper dps, that is all. Electrify bolts cannot hit the target it is proc'n off of.


This isn't true, I've done the testing and on Ghom it's giving me .5 - .8x more multiplier consistently. Pushes me to 9.2 (Venom is 9.9-10.1x)

Average elite pack is 14.9x with deep freeze. 13.5x with Bone Chill
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02/07/2013 08:32 PMPosted by Aimless
who or what is SNS


my inferior build lol


Hey now, remember who told you to put it on the hotkey! You got the name though :P

Your build is awesome man, but so is SNS. Remember freeze is also damage utility. There's a reason why Deep Freeze was a stable of mine for so long; there's a reason why I push ET CC. It's all gear optimization man. Now with Shandlar's input to our build with optimized high CC focus I don't believe your new build can straight up outpreform it without retweaking. Skill dmg source helps, but you'd have to regear AS priority which would make electrify suffer (it's already suffering with no deep freeze or ET CC).

02/07/2013 08:28 PMPosted by LordSandwich
Electrify isn't proccing more than the normal sns build so that damage shouldnt matter. You should still be able to put up a 3x multiplier against a single target if you can do the same against multiple targets.


This is incorrect. My multiplier with single SNS+Electrify is around 8.8x. When multiples..even single yellow elites the multiplier is an average of 15x. Here are my latest numbers: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7811022665#6

cry babies need freeze why not just make a kill-them-all-button for u whiners? would that make u happy?

My point is this brings the more pain as long as u balance skills.


I remember you hating on my cold mist build saying it can't work cuz you don't freeze! Haha u making me proud with the no freeze builds man, I appreciate it but just don't throw numbers like 3x more DPS than SNS. Sure if you're terrible at SNS I guess, but there's no way I'm going to get a 45-60x multiplier on elites doing this build. If you can show me testings on elites with a multiplier that kills my 14x (on average, sometimes up to 20x) then go for it bud, I'm open minded - always!

I just think you're underestimating the full potential of SNS. I need more dps like you need more CC is what it comes down to. Re-test SNS with 60% ish CC, hell I'll give you some ET CC to play around with , that's the full potential. But if you don't got 55+ CC then yah your build probably rocks SNS..but it's not even a half potential SNS...none of us have reached it's full potential...your build seems limiting at the very end while SNS keeps growing (especially with Electrify).

02/07/2013 08:00 PMPosted by Aphraell
I hope people dont misconstrue my posts on this build. Its still a very good build and something different to Archon and CM freeze builds. I'm jsut argueing its not as good as SNS-Electrify.


Yah this, but hey I'm gonna...

02/07/2013 08:09 PMPosted by Alesso
Aph should do a MasterJay style test vs. actual elite packs (re: no Ghom) and give us the straight up


^Do this

Won't be convinced till this so best way to do it is to do it myself. New builds are fun to try!
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02/08/2013 01:12 AMPosted by MasterJay
Electrify isn't proccing more than the normal sns build so that damage shouldnt matter. You should still be able to put up a 3x multiplier against a single target if you can do the same against multiple targets.


This is incorrect. My multiplier with single SNS+Electrify is around 8.8x. When multiples..even single yellow elites the multiplier is an average of 15x. Here are my latest numbers: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7811022665#6


Aimless said he couldn't test the build against a single target boss because electrify doesn't work against single targets. But you can run SNS with electrify and it doesn't work against single target bosses either. So you should be able to compare their damage outputs similarly against a single target.
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Why would you bother testing against a single target. The whole idea of this new build is to kill packs of mobs/elites.
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Why does everyone test SNS against single targets when its whole idea is to kill packs of mobs/elites?
Edited by LordSandwich#1429 on 2/8/2013 1:33 AM PST
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Because its the best single target spec in game solo.
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It also performs better against packs the same that this new build performs better against packs. So why can you not compare them against single targets?
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Oh goody, i was wondering when you guys were going to get over FN and EB! *group hug*

Try some of this, especially if you're having trouble with the lack of crowd control:

Gear:

1. %stun on gloves (rare/BoA may be better than Tasker)
2. %freeze on belt (WH is expensive but worth it)
3. Meteor reduction on source (Boost LL?! What, from 2% to 3% of your overall damage? :P)

Skills:

1. Liquify (better coefficient, more CC and damage procs but less burst damage, entirely optional depending on gear)
2. Paralysis (as Shandlar said, it's all about only casting Meteor when your AD hits 5 = more LL = Paralysis is even better)
3. Blizzard - Frozen Solid instead of DS or MW:E (benefits from AD, buffed in 1.07)

Also see my profile. I'm using Mirror Images instead of DS, personal preference.
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02/08/2013 01:41 AMPosted by LordSandwich
It also performs better against packs the same that this new build performs better against packs. So why can you not compare them against single targets?


Because the power disparity vs number of targets is much larger for this build than it is for SNS.

Eg. SNS may range from 5x-11x damage multipler depending on number of targets, this build may range from 3x to 15x. Numbers purely arbitrary.

Edit: This difference is mostly due to the lack of Arcane Dynamo procs against single targets.
Edited by Dragonfly#1941 on 2/8/2013 1:48 AM PST
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If arcane dynamo procs are an issue against single targets then that makes more sense. I was thinking arcane dynamo would constantly be proc'd against a fat boss like Ghom.
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