Diablo® III

marquise ruby question, damage gain

- Diablo III (Monk)
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DPS increase of 100% from 100 to 200 =/= DPS increase of 100% from 200 to 400.

If I had a weapon, equipped it to my monk and said "this gives me 500% more damage, buy it for 2b gold!" would you do so? no. Because DPS% increase is relative to your current DPS.

You are only interested in the actual hard-number DPS increase because that will be the same across the board in each case.

For some monks, a 12k damage increase would be INSANELY good.

For some, it would be negligible.

This is why I am talking about the fact that, even in your example, the Ruby was 2x more effective in the faster weapon. (200 DPS gain vs 100 DPS in weapon A)

I am not currently even talking about Emeralds. Their effect is the same for every single variable except CHC which means they do not care at all about the parameters of your weapon because it can't have CHC on it.

My only points are:
1.
If you only have 1 weapon equipped, a ruby will be STRICTLY more effective (add more paperdoll DPS) if that weapon has a higher APS.

IE: If you have two weapons with identical DPS but one has a higher APS, your paperdoll DPS will be HIGHER if you use the faster one with a ruby in it.

2.
Putting a Ruby in either hand of a duel-wield situation, will NOT effect your paperdoll DPS.

3.
It is possible that, when duel-wielding, putting a Ruby in your SLOWER weapon may increase your eDPS because of Cyclone.
Edited by Druin#1518 on 2/1/2013 12:06 PM PST
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Still working on this, but here's what I have so far:

1. Vortex damage already accounts for APS, so it's indifferent to ruby placement.
2. If each of my weapons had an additional socket, I'd put the ruby in the Shenlong's (higher AWD, lower APS).
3. If my weapons had their current attack speeds, but the AWDs were flipped, I'd still prefer the Shenlong's even though it has lower AWD and lower APS.

So far, "lower APS" and "lower DPS" are the only constants. I'm going to fiddle with it some more, though.


I do not think that DPS has anything to do with Ruby placement.

Other than that, I completely agree with your points.
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My only points are:
1.
If you only have 1 weapon equipped, a ruby will be STRICTLY more effective (add more paperdoll DPS) if that weapon has a higher APS.

IE: If you have two weapons with identical DPS but one has a higher APS, your paperdoll DPS will be HIGHER if you use the faster one with a ruby in it.

2.
Putting a Ruby in either hand of a duel-wield situation, will NOT effect your paperdoll DPS.

3.
It is possible that, when duel-wielding, putting a Ruby in your SLOWER weapon may increase your eDPS because of Cyclone.


OK #1 and #3 I think are true. (#2, I'm not so sure, but I haven't though enough about it) Anyway, my point (which doesn't contradict any of your points) was more about the choice between rubies and emerald. It was this:

Because the percentage damage increase from a ruby is independent of attack speed, and because the percentage damage increase from an emerald is independent of attack speed, the choice of whether to use a ruby or an emerald is independent of a weapon's attack speed.

The fact that a weapon has a high attack speed has no bearing on whether a ruby or an emerald will be a better choice.

(EDIT: Just thought through #2. Yeah, that sounds right. A +100 damage ruby adds 100 damage every 2 swings, regardless of which weapon you put it in).
Edited by Demiwraith#1534 on 2/1/2013 1:02 PM PST
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You guys are confusing the hell out of me. rofl. There is either alot of wrong information or ALOT of things changing about how rubies +damage works. Or there are a huge amount of assumptions being made, of which I am not assuming when I've looked at how a ruby choice works.
Edited by Enot#1820 on 2/1/2013 1:09 PM PST
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crap i need to get more emeralds...
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Okay, here's what I'm seeing right now:

  • Thunderclap: If you use FitL, put the ruby in the faster weapon (bigger bonus); otherwise, it doesn't matter.
  • Vortex damage: If you use FitL, put the ruby in the faster weapon (bigger bonus); otherwise, it doesn't matter (same as Thunderclap).
  • Tornado damage: Put the ruby in the slower weapon.

The explanations:

  • Thunderclap: Over a given period of time—say, two attacks—you're going to hit once with the ruby, no matter which hand it's in. Rubies aren't benefitting from the weapon's +X% Damage affix, AFAIK, on the PTR, which means that your choice of weapon doesn't matter. The only exception is FitL, as the bonus is larger on the faster weapon.
  • Vortex damage: Vortex damage already scales with APS, which means it basically functions like Thunderclap. Again, the only exception is FitL.
  • Tornado damage: This one is easiest to understand if you just think about which weapon is active more often—the slower weapon. The longer one weapon is active, the more often your tornadoes will benefit from the ruby in the slower weapon. Although FitL favors a faster weapon, it's not enough to tilt the balance because increasing the weapon's APS just means it's active less and less frequently during the course of a fight, which reduces its impact on your tornadoes.

I'll have a demonstration thread later, and everyone is free to check it out and point out any errors if they show up. But I think this is all correct.

Regardless, the impact of these changes is very, very small, and you're almost always going to be better off with a emerald anyway, no matter what you're doing with that weapon.

Also, the point about emeralds stands even for players using Wave of Light runes and Cyclone Strike runes because an emerald-against-ruby comparison is a function of CHC-x-CHD-against-AWD. This almost always favors an emerald for star gems, which is my basis of comparison.

Cheers!
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02/01/2013 10:45 AMPosted by Druin
If you have a 1.0 APS wep in one hand and a 2.0 APS wep in the other hand, you are essentially swinging a single 1.5 APS wep with damage equal to the average of the two weapons.

Actually, you get an average APS of four-thirds, or 1.33. The 1.0 APS weapon attacks once per second, and the 2.0 APS weapon attacks once every 0.5 seconds. That's two attacks in 1.5 seconds, or four attacks every 3 seconds, or 1.33 APS.
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Point 1.
Yes I agree, 50% of your Cyclones are SPAWNED by each weapon. But do we know if Cyclone damage is sampled from the weapon that Spawned it or from the weapon that is currently active?

Also, each zap of tornado damage changes to match the active weapon. The spawning weapon is irrelevant except in the very limited sense that you can make the tornado damage "stick" by spawning a tornado and stopping your attacks, which switches the damage to the non-spawning hand.

Clear? :)
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You guys are confusing the hell out of me. rofl. There is either alot of wrong information or ALOT of things changing about how rubies +damage works. Or there are a huge amount of assumptions being made, of which I am not assuming when I've looked at how a ruby choice works.

I think the main thing thats changed over the last couple weeks is that rubies now are not factoring in weapon damage % as they originally were on the PTR. So they will ALWAYS be 120-120 or 150-150 regardless of the stats on the weapon you place them in.

Everything else Druin and Vrkhyz have said looks right.
Edited by gotaplanstan#1369 on 2/2/2013 4:47 PM PST
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