Diablo® III

HoTA build - Frenzy vs Bash

Hi Guys
I've been running a HOTA build with Frenzy for keys and ubers with skorn equipped (sorry logged out with ww mp levelling build on). I'm wondering why most people seem to use bash over frenzy in these builds?

I find that Frenzy speeds your attacks up, which makes up for the slow attack speed with Skorn.

thanks for any advice/responses.
cheers
Azza2k
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It depends on your gear. If your IAS and CC are high enough, Frenzy is all you need to maintain fury. Otherwise, bash:instigation can be really helpful in keeping wotb up when its about to drop. And of course, some of us use neither.
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silverfire, i just recently switched to Frenzy (Smite) for a trial run after using Instigation. Frenzy would keep WOTB just as well as Bash, if not better, for the faster speed? Bash will return fury faster (which allows more hammers and more crits), so it's good too. My sense is both are equally good in maintaining WOTB, but on paper at least Frenzy does not knock back and has the chance to stun.
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I prefer bash for it's greater damage buff (24% vs 20%) and bash's 8 fury per hit default is much better than frenzy's 3 fury. Had frenzy's IAS buff actually carried over to other skills like HoTA or rend then it would be the clear favorite but for those with enough attack speed on gear, bash provides better damage and easier fury management.
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Why doesn't anyone use Cleave/Reaping Swing? Gives me 5 Fury + 3x opponent hit (So, in a mob, I'm kicking out like 26 Fury per swing), it doesn't knock anyone back, and it does 145% damage per swing. If I need some instant fury in a mob, 2-3 swings and I've got a full fury ball. I rarely need fury since I'm running a zero fury HotA set up with my -5 Mara's + -1 SOJ + Animosity + Full IMK, but once in a while I might let Battle Rage lapse on a long run between mobs and its an easy fix if I mess up.
Edited by Corgon#1140 on 2/5/2013 7:37 PM PST
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I prefer Frenzy over Bash, maybe because I have 25% frenzy bonus going on with my gear. But I do feel it helps me keep WOTB up and producers faster attacks and faster attacks generate more crits, which returns more fury. I also think its easier to need in a frenzy and maintain the maniac stacks over bash, which is nice as well, since you can use more Hota.
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Cleave doesn't buff any of your other skills damage is the main reason. For AOE against mobs Rend hits everything around you and HoTA despite it's smaller hit radius regularly hits multiple targets in a mob.

Corgon, I really think you missed the boat stacking all the magic find on your gear instead of prioritizing crit chance and attack speed with your Skorn.
Edited by Death#1408 on 2/5/2013 7:51 PM PST
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02/05/2013 07:50 PMPosted by Death
Corgon, I really think you missed the boat stacking all the magic find on your gear instead of prioritizing crit chance and attack speed with your Skorn.


especially since your are Plv 35 so 105 mf then 190 from gear puts you over the 300 cap already and I haven't even added your follower bonus. At least drop the topaz in your helm for a ruby to P lv faster and gain more permanent MF.
Edited by Rune#1793 on 2/5/2013 9:18 PM PST
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If you dont have AS problem go for Bush > punish. Crt dam of HOTA after 3 stack is wonderful
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The IAS bonus from frenzy only applies to frenzy. Everyone uses bash because bash is a better fury generator (with/without instigation) and a better dps boost (24% in 3 stacks vs 20% in 5 stacks).

Cleave can generate more fury than bash if you have the extra targets to hit, but there's no damage buff rune.
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The IAS bonus from frenzy only applies to frenzy. Everyone uses bash because bash is a better fury generator (with/without instigation) and a better dps boost (24% in 3 stacks vs 20% in 5 stacks).


I don't think so. Get a few stacks and you'll see your sheet attack speed increasing. If it only applied to frenzy, it wouldn't change the sheet.

If you're looking for attack speed breakpoints, 1,25 unbuffed will let you permaWotB if you can manage your fury correctly, the more, the easier it gets. On the other hand, pure HotA builds don't even need permaWotB, simply pop Insanity, destroy everything and continue running with Sprint:Marathon - in the end you'll be only losing 10% movement speed in comparisson to the double tornado.

Against ubers things are different, frenzy's attack speed buff helps like hell for managing the fury and permaWotB. Once you learn how to time your attacks properly, hitting with frenzy to at least keep the stacks at full, things become extremely easy. On full stacks and WotB with an ordinary Skorn your attack speed already becomes 2.
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02/06/2013 05:24 AMPosted by Eduw
The IAS bonus from frenzy only applies to frenzy. Everyone uses bash because bash is a better fury generator (with/without instigation) and a better dps boost (24% in 3 stacks vs 20% in 5 stacks).


I don't think so. Get a few stacks and you'll see your sheet attack speed increasing. If it only applied to frenzy, it wouldn't change the sheet.

If you're looking for attack speed breakpoints, 1,25 unbuffed will let you permaWotB if you can manage your fury correctly, the more, the easier it gets. On the other hand, pure HotA builds don't even need permaWotB, simply pop Insanity, destroy everything and continue running with Sprint:Marathon - in the end you'll be only losing 10% movement speed in comparisson to the double tornado.

Against ubers things are different, frenzy's attack speed buff helps like hell for managing the fury and permaWotB. Once you learn how to time your attacks properly, hitting with frenzy to at least keep the stacks at full, things become extremely easy. On full stacks and WotB with an ordinary Skorn your attack speed already becomes 2.


frenzy atk speed bonus only affects frenzy dude... otherwise it would be broken as hell

the dps bonus on spreadsheet is from maniac rune, try any other rune and u will not see any increase in spreadsheet dps.

personally I prefer punish, more fury gained, more dps bonus and I think the 5 seconds until u refresh the buff is longer than that of frenzy buff
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For HOTA, Frenzy is better against enemies that you fight longer and don't have a chance of losing your stacks every few seconds (i.e. Ubers and a lot of MP10 elites). That is because the IAS from Frenzy allows you to periodically tap the skill to get the bonus and then get back to Smashing. Otherwise, the 5 stack windup makes Frenzy less compelling if you are quickly killing your enemies. For general farming, I would absolutely not use Frenzy and would opt for Bash. It has a 1.00 Proc Rate so that makes it much more reliable over the 0.75 Proc Rate of Frenzy.
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bash punish. 4% more damage than frenzy maniac and more fury yo.
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Also in favour of Frenzy, it has more diversity beyond mere dps or fury - you can smite, move faster, or AOE. It all helps dps indirectly even if you are on WOTB.
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'Cleave' for me. Helps in mobs, but mostly it helps for those stupid sand wasps that used to keep killing me while I'm farming mp7. Just gives me a better chance of actually hitting them lol. Also the 14% damage bonus on my belt makes a difference. Don't like frenzy or bash.
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@Kabbage

Same here, I really like the cleave/HotA build for the fun factor. I still have a few weak points I need to address, but I'm able to farm keys at mp10 dying maybe 1-3 times a run at the most. I think lifesteal on weapons is probably the biggest thing I want to improve on - but its $$$$$.
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I perfer Frenzy...

1. I don't like selling my belt and soj for a bash version of the same.

2. I don't want to knock enemies back, as i perfer to keep the mobs in tight bunches for full fury generating WW/SPRINT Circles with max HOTA's and triple offensive passives.

3. When ubering with certain groups (no CM, or Squishy), I find Frenzy smite to make any fight 50% easier, specially with HIGH IAS. Single targets are pretty well stun locked if you wish.
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A barbarian using Bash with a CM/WW wizard is completely shooting the group in the foot (unless they are really careful or using the rune without knockback). It is frankly the main reason I use frenzy (over the other benefits). Every time you knockback enemies away from a CM/WW you move them away from a carefully placed Energy Twister. To recover, a CM/WW has to rewind up and that negatively hurts their freeze due to having to completely start over. In some cases, it gets inexperienced players killed.
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I got sick of refreshing the frenzy stack,plus it seemed pointless with IAS from WOTB.

I just use cleave broad sweep, all tho its basic I can just stand there Shift-Clicking anything that comes near me, multiple hits = good fury regen too.
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