Diablo® III

Galvanizing Ward is the best passive for SNS

02/06/2013 01:42 PMPosted by JellzRoc
Op erase this post. Wizard club rules are back in full swing


I'm really sorry guys, as much i hate every nerf we've been through so far, i actually want this to be fixed, I dont like knowing that not swapping weapon will bring down my efficiency... soon after you use it frequently you'll know.
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I thought this was common knowledge with spells like storm armor? Its damage is calculated at the time of casting by whatever weapon you have in your hand. It does not change from swapping weapons, but like I said above, if you refresh storm armor without the Skorn in your hands your damage buff disappears.


These abilities in question (Storm Armor, Shuriken Cloud, Sweeping Wind, etc) snapshot ALL of your stats at the time of casting (not just your weapon stats. EDIT: by stats I mean things like crit, CHD, etc... not weapon damage). So you can do crazy stuff like swap in Skorn, SoJ, and other super high dps items that maybe lack defensive stats, cast your ability, and then swap back to your standard gearset. Not worth the trouble to me, but to each his/her own I guess.
Edited by Malakai#1265 on 2/6/2013 1:59 PM PST
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tested it out on live server... Snapshot works for lifesteal but NOT damage.

Method:

Test 1:
cast thunderstorm @100k dps 3.0 lifesteal
swapped gear to 0% lifesteal, 100dps
lightning strikes did ~100 damage and healed tiny amounts of hp

Test 2:
cast thunderstorm @100k dps, 3,0 lifesteal
swapped gear to 0% lifesteal, 60k DPS
lightning strikes did reasonable damage (50k strikes) and healed me for hundreds of hp like you would expect with 3.0 lifesteal.

Conclusion:
If you are going to snapshot, get a 6% lifesteal junkstick.

Familiars also proc lifesteal, for the record, so you could snapshot them... haven't tested them for DPS snapshotting.

Also you can't snapshot magic weapon, because a weapon swap clears the buff.
Edited by Shaggy#1317 on 2/6/2013 2:04 PM PST
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Would 6 percent LS mean we could run with no LOH at all, I wonder....
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02/06/2013 02:04 PMPosted by Ossian
Would 6 percent LS mean we could run with no LOH at all, I wonder....


to know this, we need somebody to test whether its affecting SHocking Aspect tick or not...
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02/06/2013 02:04 PMPosted by Ossian
Would 6 percent LS mean we could run with no LOH at all, I wonder....


Maybe if you don't use EB against RD mobs and have high dps. Otherwise, for people around 100k dps, 6% life steal on SA+Storm Armor isn't much compared to 1k Loh. I'd say it's around 500 Loh equivalent. If you get 4x dps from SA+Storm armor, that's 400k dps, which is about 4800 life per second. 1k LoH should give around 9k life per second at full windup with 2.73 APS.
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02/06/2013 02:12 PMPosted by Fatamorgana
Would 6 percent LS mean we could run with no LOH at all, I wonder....


to know this, we need somebody to test whether its affecting SHocking Aspect tick or not...


Wait, so you posted this without actually knowing how it worked, or doing any kind of testing yourself?

To test, equip a non-LS weapon with no life regen. Cast Storm Armor. Equip a life steal weapon. Get hit by something and start casting MM - Seeker, then record your damage done and life gains. The proc on MM - Seeker is 1 so every crit should proc SA. The Storm Armor strikes won't return any life so if you only gain life from the MM hit, then SA does benefit from the snapshot. If you do do gain life from the SA hit, then it does not use the snapshot info.

You can also test the other info pretty easily. Equip a lot of int, crit, CD gear and cast Storm Armor. Then remove everything and equip a really low dps weapon with some +min damage so MM will do the same damage every hit. If the snapshot applies to all your stats (int, crit, CD), then you should see a high frequency of crits and large damage from crit. Otherwise you won't see many crits and the crit damage will only be 50% more than your normal hits, all of which should be the same damage if the snapshot doesn't apply.
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02/06/2013 02:18 PMPosted by Loroese


to know this, we need somebody to test whether its affecting SHocking Aspect tick or not...


Wait, so you posted this without actually knowing how it worked, or doing any kind of testing yourself?

To test, equip a non-LS weapon with no life regen. Cast Storm Armor. Equip a life steal weapon. Get hit by something and start casting MM - Seeker, then record your damage done and life gains. The proc on MM - Seeker is 1 so every crit should proc SA. The Storm Armor strikes won't return any life so if you only gain life from the MM hit, then SA does benefit from the snapshot. If you do do gain life from the SA hit, then it does not use the snapshot info.

You can also test the other info pretty easily. Equip a lot of int, crit, CD gear and cast Storm Armor. Then remove everything and equip a really low dps weapon with some +min damage so MM will do the same damage every hit. If the snapshot applies to all your stats (int, crit, CD), then you should see a high frequency of crits and large damage from crit. Otherwise you won't see many crits and the crit damage will only be 50% more than your normal hits, all of which should be the same damage if the snapshot doesn't apply.


Yeah...i must admit that i'm a bit lazy to find swap equipment without any life regen or LoH whatsoever to do the test, exactly why i posted this, people who like to test will do the test and verify themselves. I'm not exactly the kind of guy who enjoy to do the testing, i never really contribute to anything in this forum, i'm just a leecher lol.

And.. still have other few tricks up my sleeves.. we'll keep it first for next time :) none is really fantastic though..
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SA doesn't take a true snapshot of LS. Life recovery is based solely on SA's own lightning damage. And because of this, it really isn't that much life recovery compared to weapon LS or LoH. As others have mentioned, other classes (not just monks) have similar snapshot exploits. Ours is just not that particularly useful.
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02/06/2013 02:32 PMPosted by kiza
SA doesn't take a true snapshot of LS. Life recovery is based solely on SA's own lightning damage. And because of this, it really isn't that much life recovery compared to weapon LS or LoH. As others have mentioned, other classes (not just monks) have similar snapshot exploits. Ours is just not that particularly useful.


by SA you mean Storm Armor (the lightning) or Shocking Aspect (critical tick) ?
because all this time it help increasing my multiplier by a bit, i only have 1,2k dps 6 LS skorn to test..
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If this is true, you should've waited until Patch 1.7 went live!
Now they have time to fix it!
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02/06/2013 01:54 PMPosted by Loroese
I know about the snapshotting, and posted on it a while back and even made a bug post about it. However, Storm Armor does not snapshot your weapon damage. That's super easy to test, just cast storm armor then remove your weapon and watch the damage per lightning strike plummet. The snapshot only applied to the life steal that I saw. I didn't test the SA damage though but again that should be fairly easy to test.


It does work for weapon damage too, I've tested it. Time yourself in a Mp10 Ghom kill using it with a high DPS Skorn to activate storm armor with then again without. There is a measurable difference. Also you can see the lightning strikes when they hit do far more damage when activated with a Skorn and does not change when you equip your other weapons.
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If this is true, you should've waited until Patch 1.7 went live!
Now they have time to fix it!


Its true... i personally dont like this thing

02/06/2013 02:51 PMPosted by Death
I know about the snapshotting, and posted on it a while back and even made a bug post about it. However, Storm Armor does not snapshot your weapon damage. That's super easy to test, just cast storm armor then remove your weapon and watch the damage per lightning strike plummet. The snapshot only applied to the life steal that I saw. I didn't test the SA damage though but again that should be fairly easy to test.


It does work for weapon damage too, I've tested it. Time yourself in a Mp10 Ghom kill using it with a high DPS Skorn to activate storm armor with then again without. There is a measurable difference. Also you can see the lightning strikes when they hit do far more damage when activated with a Skorn and does not change when you equip your other weapons.


I assume you test it with your barb's Skorn? then i hate this thing even more lol..
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02/06/2013 02:51 PMPosted by Death
I know about the snapshotting, and posted on it a while back and even made a bug post about it. However, Storm Armor does not snapshot your weapon damage. That's super easy to test, just cast storm armor then remove your weapon and watch the damage per lightning strike plummet. The snapshot only applied to the life steal that I saw. I didn't test the SA damage though but again that should be fairly easy to test.


It does work for weapon damage too, I've tested it. Time yourself in a Mp10 Ghom kill using it with a high DPS Skorn to activate storm armor with then again without. There is a measurable difference. Also you can see the lightning strikes when they hit do far more damage when activated with a Skorn and does not change when you equip your other weapons.


I've tested it too and came to the opposite conclusion. Equip your skorn, activate Storm Armor, then remove your weapon and just walk around. Your lightning strikes won't hit for much at all. Then equip a weapon and the strike damage will change.
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confirmed shocking aspect procs DO snapshot lifesteal
unsure if they snapshot dps yet...

storm armor strikes do not snapshot dps with any rune, but does snapshot lifesteal with every rune.
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Tried it 3wks ago after I heard about it. Hardly any noticable difference to me. And the swapping annoyed the hell out of me.
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This exploit is known for a while, tested it myself and it works. Although the amount of life you will get back is not sufficient to drop loh from our gear unfortunately. That's because we only regain life back from Storm Armor and Shocking Aspect and none from weapon dmg itself.
Tested it on ghom mp 10 and reflect packs at mp10, but maybe you can drop loh when you farm loh mp. But see for yourself, I'm not going to exploit since it's not worth it imo.
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02/06/2013 03:12 PMPosted by Aphraell
Tried it 3wks ago after I heard about it. Hardly any noticable difference to me. And the swapping annoyed the hell out of me.
Same. I tried it as soon I saw Loroese first report on the topic. I confess I had a hard time seeing any qualitative difference, unlike the snapshot exploit for monk (which I very much notice the difference).
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This exploit is known for a while, tested it myself and it works. Although the amount of life you will get back is not sufficient to drop loh from our gear unfortunately. That's because we only regain life back from Storm Armor and Shocking Aspect and none from weapon dmg itself.
Tested it on ghom mp 10 and reflect packs at mp10, but maybe you can drop loh when you farm loh mp. But see for yourself, I'm not going to exploit since it's not worth it imo.


Better dont drop LoH, take this just for an extra life regen, better stay with the basic..

02/06/2013 03:12 PMPosted by Aphraell
Tried it 3wks ago after I heard about it. Hardly any noticable difference to me. And the swapping annoyed the hell out of me.


its true, its a hassle for me too, and knowing that i'll get extra LS and some dps just by swapping really annoyed me..

and BTW this trick benefit more to the <150k dps people, where their weapon did less damage than Skorn, As for you.. you might need 1500k dps+ Skorn bro Aphraell :)
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Thanks for sharing, OP.
So it snapshots LS and not DPS. Nice to know.
What about crit damage, chance to stun/freeze, etc?

But I probably won't use it. I learned about the SW exploit from the monk forums before it became common knowledge, tried MP10 with my monk. Swapped between Skorn and fast daggers. It was fun for a while but it's just a hassle having to swap weapons in the middle of battle. I went back to his original weapons.

It's not intended gameplay and I don't want to get used to a playstyle that'll probably get fixed in the future anyway.
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