Diablo® III

Three Demon Hunter Builds

Proc Coefficients:
Cinder Arrow: 1.3 (35% pierce)
Puncturing Arrow: 0.55 (50% pierce)

Cinder has a proc that is 2.36 times that of Puncturing (1.3 / 0.55)
Puncturing has only 42.8% more chance to pierce (50/35).

I don't wanna make a mistake trying to calculate the pierce of the pierce, so on and so forth, but it's pretty much evident that 42.8% more pierce will not make up for the difference in proc coefficient (more than double).

So yea, for "proccing" stuff, Cinder is best as ActionKungFu has indicated. I use it for a LoH build to level to 60, and tested on SC on discipline builds.
Edited by MrDeAtH#1112 on 2/3/2013 2:09 PM PST
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Dear ActionKungFu,

You are so awesome.

Love, Geology
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I love 24% move speed, but I've been unwilling to make the EHP sacrifice yet on a DH. Well, I did briefly on my first DH and I died. I won't attribute that to the 24% MS, but I don't like the sacrifice I end up making if I wear an Inquisitor. Maybe a socketed Inquisitor would work? For know, I'm not interested in Inna's or Lacuni's.

I used the 1st build today before reading your followup. I went with the DPS rune for caltrops. It worked on MP1 Act2. But things got dicey...I'm losing 28kish DPS with the dual wield setup. After switching to the 1st rune-the 80% slow, I could handle the damn Naga snakes much better.

I have mixed feelings about sentries. The lack of crit...their boringness. But I get their utility as they do so much work for you. Anyhow, when I'm not in a grindy mood, I'll continue toying with these. On a level of pure gaming bliss, high attack speeds builds feel a lot better to me. Coupling that with 24% MS sounds like a fun experiment.
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Proc Coefficients:
Cinder Arrow: 1.3 (35% pierce)
Puncturing Arrow: 0.55 (50% pierce)


The source I used said Cinder Arrow has a proc of 0.65. Where did you get that?
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Proc Coefficients:
Cinder Arrow: 1.3 (35% pierce)
Puncturing Arrow: 0.55 (50% pierce)


The source I used said Cinder Arrow has a proc of 0.65. Where did you get that?

The DoT on fire arrow supposedly counts for 1.3 total, while the initial arrow hit accounts for 0.65.
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Dear ActionKungFu,

You are so awesome.

Love, Geology


:D

I love 24% move speed, but I've been unwilling to make the EHP sacrifice yet on a DH. Well, I did briefly on my first DH and I died. I won't attribute that to the 24% MS, but I don't like the sacrifice I end up making if I wear an Inquisitor. Maybe a socketed Inquisitor would work? For know, I'm not interested in Inna's or Lacuni's.

I used the 1st build today before reading your followup. I went with the DPS rune for caltrops. It worked on MP1 Act2. But things got dicey...I'm losing 28kish DPS with the dual wield setup. After switching to the 1st rune-the 80% slow, I could handle the damn Naga snakes much better.

I have mixed feelings about sentries. The lack of crit...their boringness. But I get their utility as they do so much work for you. Anyhow, when I'm not in a grindy mood, I'll continue toying with these. On a level of pure gaming bliss, high attack speeds builds feel a lot better to me. Coupling that with 24% MS sounds like a fun experiment.


Jagged Spikes and Sentry together is too dangerous, because of reflect damage(ruining builds everywhere). If went with Torturous or Hooked Spines(which was what I was using before), Renges would still be alive, but I got overconfident because I was feeling untouchable and played too early in the morning.

I choose 24% movement over EHP I could get from my bracers, because with more movement speed that's less time I spend on DoT, avoiding them flat out, and the difference between being able to escape and not. When using many snares and roots, 24% movement speed becomes that much better. Snares lose their potency when you can't use that advantage to travel around and reposition.

I'd take 12% movement and attack speed via lacuni's, over some crit chance and res anyday. Movement speed also makes more sense when you have a lot of attack speed. If you're carrying around a heavy Manticore, more EHP would be better imo, as you're more vulnerable everytime you attack.

I like sentries because I enjoy setting traps in these kinds of games. I had played the Assassin for a brief period in D2, in Titan Quest I played a Hunter type with poison turrets, and in Sacred 2 I played the Dryad. If Spike Trap - Lightning Rod was better, I'd use that, but it's just lackluster.

The op tempo of the first build is a lot different over the usual elemental arrow ones. It isn't really a "farming" build, it's more for fun and progression in content that is stronger than you. Instead of moving forward it's like you move sideways. As when a tough engagement begins, you want to create distance first and then set everything up or lead them to the site of the previous engagement(within reason). You're supposed to set up ambushes with that build. Sometimes you'll actually want to travel back to your previous position instead of resetting up. It's more in tune with going up against content you're undergeared for. As you want the toughest of elites to run into 3 sentries and 6 caltrops soon as the battle begins. The description I put in the initial post is more of a strategy when pressing forward.

The changes to rubies will make the first build much stronger.

EDIT: and 100% agreed man. Pure gaming bliss is what it's all about. That's what I grind items for when needed.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 2/3/2013 10:59 PM PST
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Proc Coefficients:
Cinder Arrow: 1.3 (35% pierce)
Puncturing Arrow: 0.55 (50% pierce)


The source I used said Cinder Arrow has a proc of 0.65. Where did you get that?


Damn, I thought that's what you were going by.

I use this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgL5S3Revw9ddEhScEpSLWhnRDZKV25OaWZJcHdkN0E#gid=3
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Sorry for the triple post, but I felt it's easier to follow this way.

More experimenting with the third build:

A Windforce with at least 40% knockback is amazing with Entangling Shot of any kind(since the actual knockback works off the proc coefficient of the attack you're using). Blue elites of all kinds will have trouble surrounding you. Act 2 MP1+ is a great place for DHs to try out builds due to the nature of the monsters. For example those "spinners" which the keywarden is based off of, cannot be rooted with Thrill of the Hunt or be knocked back or snared while spinning, so they can continue to advance. Also, the nagas vanish the moment they spot you and then get close immediately. But the good news is all of them can be knocked back except the rare champs. So you can stand in place and smokescreen soon as they appear and Bounty Hunter them back or whatever you want to do.

Also, both Covering Fire and Multi Shot are amazing because you can stand completely behind cover and hit enemies while they can't hit you. You can also be down a set a stairs and hit without having to target. Some other attacks in our arsenal hit the floor before or some other kind of partition instead of reaching targets, but that isn't the case with these two. As long as part of the attack has a "view" the attacks will hit. So for example in the Vault, you can stand directly behind pillars and hit with Covering Fire, while those daddy long leg monsters with the fire or electric, their attacks would just repeatedly hit the pillar.

EDIT: If anyone can think of some horrible scenarios and challenge these builds with them. I'd like to provide solutions, as it would not only help everyone that wants to try these, but it would also help in revising the builds.

Also, I found something weird about Missile Dampening affix. As Ball Lightning is always the prime choice for that, I found out something weird. What I did was fire Covering Fire, and then immediately fired Bola and the Bola didn't get slowed by damp and immediately hooked onto the champ. I'm gonna have to try it again, but there might be some other interesting things.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 2/3/2013 11:20 PM PST
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Proc Coefficients:
Cinder Arrow: 1.3 (35% pierce)
Puncturing Arrow: 0.55 (50% pierce)


The source I used said Cinder Arrow has a proc of 0.65. Where did you get that?


Yep, I used the same source ActionKungFu did. Like a true D3 nerd, I have it printed out and refer to it constantly.

I think the DoT proc accounts for another .65 on top of the original .65 = 1.3. And fire stacks with each piercing shot. This is how it works with all other DoT's in the game so it makes sense to me. Also I confirmed in the Old Ruins by looking at my LoH on one shot of each HA.
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None of these builds do the work for you, what they do is give you options to where you can skill your way out of the situation because you have a plan and a contingencies throughout. It gives you freedom of expression and playing style that isn't limited to gear checks.


Oh, I could not have worded that better. That is exactly how I have been trying to build my DH. Still quite low level at the moment due to limited playing time, but that further encourages me to look for ways to build around class skills and player abilities instead of aiming to get the "best" gear (though, great gear certainly helps a lot and gives more options).

Great thread! I'll be bookmarking this to come back to every now and again =D
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02/04/2013 03:17 PMPosted by MythrilBlue
None of these builds do the work for you, what they do is give you options to where you can skill your way out of the situation because you have a plan and a contingencies throughout. It gives you freedom of expression and playing style that isn't limited to gear checks.


Oh, I could not have worded that better. That is exactly how I have been trying to build my DH. Still quite low level at the moment due to limited playing time, but that further encourages me to look for ways to build around class skills and player abilities instead of aiming to get the "best" gear (though, great gear certainly helps a lot and gives more options).

Great thread! I'll be bookmarking this to come back to every now and again =D


Thanks :)

With all of the great combat gameplay this game has, there are still some things that irk me about the mechanics in design. Some affixes can seemingly destroy build diversity. As you've noticed, in all 3 of those builds, Smokescreen is there. It's basically because many problems we face in the game, there tends to be only 1 solution unless you "outgear" the content. Hopefully over time Blizzard irons all of that out, and makes the content punishing as hell like it was before while providing many solutions within the design(reducing damage was not the answer, and neither is increasing health[MP design choice]).

My builds all seem to work well because they give you the tools to solve problems. However, the Ball Lightning classic is still the most optimal way to play a DH more than likely, as it scales well with gear as the moment you outgear content it's hard to beat. These builds here are more like underdog styles more than anything. They're FAR more resourceful and have less weaknesses than the Ball Lightning classic styles.

----
Bump. I know my way of posting is pretty "matter of factly", but I don't bite. I really want people to criticize these builds as far as bringing up scenarios where they could fall apart. Because, I'm not capable of finding the holes in them myself, I only have my own perspective. And with attentiveness they feel infallible but I know that can't possibly be the case, it wouldn't make sense.

Also, I've been experimenting with Screaming Skull in place of Bitter Pill on the third build. As Screaming Skull tends to interrupt allowing me to play roots on things that try to protect themselves. Also I might consider Lightning Bolt(the stun on crit elemental arrow rune, not ball lightning) again(which might actually become crazy good with more crit chance). EDIT: I feel like Ball Lightning and Nether Tentacles are the offensive runes from elemental arrow, while Lightning Bolt and Screaming Skull are the utilities - and aren't built for a "damage" source, even though they could be.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 2/5/2013 5:32 PM PST
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I think Smokescreen being on all the builds is a testament to how powerful it is, not just defensively, but offensively too. If it were dropped for anything, Vault would probably be the most effective way to avoid all the little frozen orbs before they explode, or put a large amount of distance between you and the enemies (and also still break Jailer).

And by 'offensively', I mean there is something satisfying about standing in a minefield full of frozen orbs and timing a Smokescreen just right that I can keep DPSing without having to retreat for a few seconds or reposition. I'll usually only do that when the frozen orbs are off sequence and it looks like one Smokescreen isn't going to be enough to stay unfrozen.
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I read through your builds. To me it looks like #1 is best for farming, #2 is an ideal PvP build, and #3 will be great for ubers if you tweak it a bit to increase the DPS. The problem is, every time you switch between builds you lose your stacks =(
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I think Smokescreen being on all the builds is a testament to how powerful it is, not just defensively, but offensively too. If it were dropped for anything, Vault would probably be the most effective way to avoid all the little frozen orbs before they explode, or put a large amount of distance between you and the enemies (and also still break Jailer).

And by 'offensively', I mean there is something satisfying about standing in a minefield full of frozen orbs and timing a Smokescreen just right that I can keep DPSing without having to retreat for a few seconds or reposition. I'll usually only do that when the frozen orbs are off sequence and it looks like one Smokescreen isn't going to be enough to stay unfrozen.


Yeah smokescreen is definitely very strong. It's actually one of my favorite moves in the game, so I don't mind having it always, I actually want it to go back to being 2 seconds default and 3(lingering fog). And Breathe Deep and Choking Gas are very offensive, Choking Gas is like a small ranged Rend.

Because... I'd like to actually get rid of Vault outright, and just use Smoke. But 1.5 seconds is not long enough to completely defuse aggro in situations where you're surrounded. I'm not sure if I can really articulate what I'm thinking on this. The window is basically at it's best to CC in that 1-1.5 seconds.

02/06/2013 08:46 AMPosted by Speranza
I read through your builds. To me it looks like #1 is best for farming, #2 is an ideal PvP build, and #3 will be great for ubers if you tweak it a bit to increase the DPS. The problem is, every time you switch between builds you lose your stacks =(


Build 1 has saved Iso's WD in an MP5 uber run way back. And build 2 could take on MP5 Kulle all by itself :P

Losing stacks to change build isn't that big of a deal to me, if I'm doing a full act run. Lately though, I've just been playing MP1/2 Vault of the Assassin runs with build 3. I've been experimenting I dropped Bitter Pill for Screaming Skull and put Nightstalker on in place of Brooding. The spot where Bitter Pill was, was an offensive utility spot. At times when I don't want to move position, Screaming Skull will make THEM move instead. VERY VERY good to maintain vantage points behind partitions and on stairs and whatnot.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 2/6/2013 2:49 PM PST
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!!!

I think I've found a Thrill of the Hunt trick!

I was able to reset it repeatedly. hahahahah

EDIT: !@#$ I can't replicate it anymore. What the hell was going on?? it was resetting over and over, I'm not kidding.

EDIT2: it resets and will flicker on the screen
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 2/7/2013 1:38 PM PST
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!!!

I think I've found a Thrill of the Hunt trick!

I was able to reset it repeatedly. hahahahah

EDIT: !@#$ I can't replicate it anymore. What the hell was going on?? it was resetting over and over, I'm not kidding.

EDIT2: it resets and will flicker on the screen


Did you have an Empowered shrine?

Also, both Covering Fire and Multi Shot are amazing because you can stand completely behind cover and hit enemies while they can't hit you. You can also be down a set a stairs and hit without having to target. Some other attacks in our arsenal hit the floor before or some other kind of partition instead of reaching targets, but that isn't the case with these two. As long as part of the attack has a "view" the attacks will hit. So for example in the Vault, you can stand directly behind pillars and hit with Covering Fire, while those daddy long leg monsters with the fire or electric, their attacks would just repeatedly hit the pillar.

Have you tried it with Strafe? Not grenadier, but the regular one. Its shots are immediate, with no projectile animation (like evasive fire and multishot) so I would imagine it works the same.

Also, I found something weird about Missile Dampening affix. As Ball Lightning is always the prime choice for that, I found out something weird. What I did was fire Covering Fire, and then immediately fired Bola and the Bola didn't get slowed by damp and immediately hooked onto the champ. I'm gonna have to try it again, but there might be some other interesting things.

I have noticed, with a few skills, that sometimes the Missile Dampening works and sometimes it doesn't. I think it has to do with targeting the enemy, vs targeting ground, but I'm not sure. Particularly, I've noticed this effect with my barb's main throw attack.

EDIT: If anyone can think of some horrible scenarios and challenge these builds with them. I'd like to provide solutions, as it would not only help everyone that wants to try these, but it would also help in revising the builds.

I tried to think of one for your build # 3. One scenario that comes to mind is just a pack that forces you to use discipline a ton, and doesn't give you many good opportunities for Suppression Fire. Like, say, a tough rare group of Fast/Waller/Arcane. It would be tough because you don't have preparation. But then, maybe your constant crowd control would be enough to keep them from cornering you, so you don't have to use discipline to escape.
Edited by Bottle#1907 on 2/7/2013 1:48 PM PST
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Nah I didn't have shrines. I'm in the middle of some MP2 runs, and I was able to completely keep this elite pack in a corner because Thrill kept resetting.

I haven't tried Strafe like that. I know Demo tosses nades over partitions as is, but obviously not behing stuff.

Wish I could completely control some of these things. I'm gonna keep trying to figure some stuff out.


EDIT: If anyone can think of some horrible scenarios and challenge these builds with them. I'd like to provide solutions, as it would not only help everyone that wants to try these, but it would also help in revising the builds.

I tried to think of one for your build # 3. One scenario that comes to mind is just a pack that forces you to use discipline a ton, and doesn't give you many good opportunities for Suppression Fire. Like, say, a tough rare group of Fast/Waller/Arcane. It would be tough because you don't have preparation. But then, maybe your constant crowd control would be enough to keep them from cornering you, so you don't have to use discipline to escape.


I've been facing monsters like that constantly lately. But, I've been fearing them into position between Thrill cooldown to root them all again.

Waller is always scary, since it ruins your vantage point. Shield has been more threatening. I've also switched to Nightstalker over Brooding atm.

EDIT: also, personally the only affix that forces me to use a ton of discipline would be Vortex, as I'd have to smokescreen and then vault out, and if the monsters are scattered I'd have to do it multiple times too close together. What I try to do here is vault in the direction that gives me the most coverage, and then I Suppression Fire. The three affixes you mention though, I think would seriously mess me up in Horde or Teleport form with Soul Lashers. I'll definitely be on the lookout, this was actually whyI dropped Bola for Skulls so I can force monsters to reposition if I cant.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 2/7/2013 2:05 PM PST
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