Diablo® III

Imagine a Bucket...

02/07/2013 08:18 PMPosted by Drothvader
I really don't like the prospect of everything being readily available for sale. It kind of cheapens the game and devoids it of any accomplishment. That's just me personally though.

Well, that was in D2, yes? And, as community said ideas from D2 are always better than ideas in D3, yes?
02/07/2013 08:44 PMPosted by XSteelX
My solution, Dont allow players to pour their cup back into the bucket.. You're only allowed to post an item ONCE in the AH for a 24-48 hour period, your choice.

Yeah, right. So people will be selling via d3jsp/in-game trade window ignoring ASH tax
The problem with you analogy Droth, is that you assume the bucket is finite.
In a video game world, the bucket is infinite, relatively speaking.

The bucket is finite. The water flow is not.
02/08/2013 01:43 PMPosted by ShadowDIO
- People would cry a lot because their over 9000 hours/half million dollars invested to get uber items and lost them because they broke.

So there should be an option to restore durability, but it should be expensive
Other ways to make crafting a goldsink. Create crafts which require gems, or more brimstones. Create purely visual crafts [leg dyes?], or some expensive to boast only items Maybe custom socketables

Other ideas:
* After 60 lev respec cost gold
* Improving legendaries to 61 lev
* Create affix which can be used as a base to build
* Some items are not BoA/BoE but can't be sell via ingame trade window. They can be drop [if you want to risk it when selling], or sold via AH with 50% cut
* Some crazy idea. Add some NPC [maybe OP artisan] who drains your gold, even when you dont use him.
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The way that you stop the bucket through filling up is quite simple: customization.

Basically, there should be no "BIS" item for all builds for any given class.

What should happen instead is that each item should have rather unique modifiers that make it useful for some things and not for others.

For example, the Fetish Sycophants for the witch doctor class need to be severely buffed to be useful. Why not accomplish this through the use of items? Maybe you could make items that would give a specific bonus to underused skills like this (after you buff the underlying skill mechanics, of course) to make -- say -- a witch doctor who wants to play the class as a pure summoner able to do so.

You don't even have to have items with further specialization in order to do this. You could accomplish this with a system similar to the runeword system from Diablo 2.

In this system, lets say that everyone has access to unique dyes that drop randomly in the game. Dyes are a good choice because the programming infrastructure already exists and they aren't currently used for anything other than making the female characters look naked.

Anyway, with these dyes, let's say that you can have dies drop in three flavors: rare, legendary, and set. Any item dyed with a rare dye will give you two additional magical properties (within a reasonable roll range) on an item, any legendary dye three, and any set dye four. Additionally, you could make it so that the rares tended to have a slightly higher roll for the magical property than a legendary, so that it wasn't immediately obvious whether it was better to try a legendary or a rare dye on an item.

With the set items, you could have class specific ones that would be guaranteed to roll at least one useful stat for that class. For example, could you imagine how useful a witch doctor dye would be if it was called a "Zunimasa Set Dye" and had the chance to roll +1-5% mana regeneration on every roll with a maximum of 5 set dyed items equipped at a given time? Similarly, a barbarian set dye could possibly increase fury per attack by +1-5%.

In addition, you could have special dyes that would buff class specific skills. Want to play a pure pets build in MP10 as a witch doctor? Get the pet buff specific dyes that give attack speed and damage bonuses to your pets, and you can. Get tired of that and want to switch to a Zombie Bear face-tank build? Well, just swap out the dyes on your items for the new build.

One of the great things about Diablo 2 was the huge variety of build that could be tried and were viable. This is one thing that the current game lacks. Making items dyeable to give build variety would be a huge step towards solving this problem. It would also make trading on the AH more fun and meaningful since players could just swap out gear for new builds and also sell off specific dyes en masse.

Account bound items are NOT the way to go. If you guys persist in this path, you will kill the game, mark my words. Nobody wants to spend 5000 hours trying to craft the perfect amulet instead of buying a reasonable substitute on the AH in 5 minutes.

If you liked this suggestion, please feel free to contact me in the future. I play a lot as part of a clan, and my teammates and I have several other ideas of how to improve this game.
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Gold sink ideas:

1) Have the 15% AH fee paid for just to list the item. Then items that have to be listed multiple times cost the seller money.

2) Have any item removed from the AH (either purchased, cancelled or unsold) have a temporary BoA status that can only be removed by either paying a fee or using the item to kill X number of bosses (not elites, bosses).

3) Crafting that adds random affixes to items / re-rolls 1 random affix on an item.

4) Crafting that adds specific affixes to items but has a non-zero chance to completely destroy the item. That's REAL gambling.

5) Honest to goodness challenges: Pay admission to take quest to... Clear act X (possibly without dying) while neither items nor gold drops... in order to spawn a chest that contains one BoA item that, when used does something amazing:
For 1 hour double legendary drop rate
For 1 hour double XP gained
For 1 hour grant 300% MF/GF (i.e. let the player play as paragon 100)
For 5 minutes only legendary items drop, but they are of all levels
Allows NV to stack to 10 for 1 hour
For 1 hour add 100 main stat / 100 to CHD / 10 to CC / 10 to IAS
Grants 1 paragon level if you level is below 10, 20 ... 100 (yes, 10 different items)
Add any 1 specific affix (in item description) to an item & make it BoA (so, like 300 versions of this)

Possibly have the loot table in the chest determined by amount of admission paid, where permanent character/item effects only occur in chests that cost in the millions.
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02/09/2013 06:24 PMPosted by steakncheese
Disagree...I am a flipper...I buy a Manticore for 50-Mil...I flip it for 80-Mil to make up for the 'tax' and to make a profit on it. I cannot see how this does not cause overpricing.
If it sells for more than you bought it for, it was underpriced when you bought it.

Wrong - it will sell at a decent market value. If it sits at the hgiher price longer it increases the chances that someone trying to sell something of similar stats has to raise their price at a similar price to the already inflated price that the flipper has posted it for - the AH is self-inflating due to flippers - this is simple economics...Flipping needs to be curbed...
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02/07/2013 08:18 PMPosted by Drothvader
I really don't like the prospect of everything being readily available for sale. It kind of cheapens the game and devoids it of any accomplishment. That's just me personally though.

You know guys... Our problem is that many of us, the players, thinks about D3 as a casino\poker\money game.

"sale", "luck" etc...

What happened with the feeling of ADVENTURE? EXPERIENCE? MOOD?

Blah-blah-blah... money this, money that.
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Posts: 671
upgradeable items, but each level of upgrade carries increased risk.

relatively painless upgrades at the initial level (no chance of failure)
risky from mid level (fails wipe out existing upgrades, moderate chance of failure)
very risky at the top level of upgrades (fails destroy the item, high chance of failure)
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92 Dwarf Paladin
Posts: 4,131
I already laid out my ideas on this topic a week ago here:

I didnt get any replies. But then again I didnt use a spiffy bucket analogy. I guess thats why youre the MVP and I'm not eh? =)

The answer is simple and anyone with half a brain knows it: Gear, Gems, and Gold need to be removed from the player driven economy at a sufficient rate to allow for long term economic stability. Otherwise you have the rampant inflation we have been seeing in the AH.

Honestly I dont understand why the developers didnt implement the sorts of controls that other successful player driven economies have (cough...WoW) right from the start. Unless it was some silly person saying "We cant have Bind On Equip gear because Diablo 2 didnt have it! The community wont stand for it!"

In any case, the devs have painted themselves into an economic corner, and the problem will only get worse until they bite the bullet and make some hard decisions on the way the core economy works.

Will the player base scream bloody murder and /ragequit about it when they do? Of course they will! So they shouldnt put off making those hard decisions, because the longer they put it off, the more painful its going to be for everyone, devs included.

We as players should simply tell them: "Look we realize this is gonna suck. But if D3 is going to survive, you gotta do it. So just get it over with so we as players can adjust and get back to a stable economy. Dont drag it out for a year with countless PR posts designed to sell us on the need for the changes. Just...pull the trigger already."

- Claybeard
"Ye can always tell a dwarf, but ye cannae tell him much."
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02/07/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Drothvader
Now comes to question, what do you do with that water? The only way to keep that bucket from overflowing is to drain some of it off (Salvage items)

Blizzard thought of this before they released D3, its why there is wild randomness in the item rolls. Items that sold for $250 around release are now vendor gear.

The amount of truly godly gear "dripping into the bucket" is insanely small, how many echoeing fury's have you found? now think you would need around 3 trillion on average to find a perfect roll.

Blizzard didnt anticipate all the complaints about bad loot and their ability to control cheating, therefore by doubling the drop rates and letting botters control the economy as well as underestimating the effects of the GAH giving every player acess to the entire "bucket of water" the players are reaching levels of gearing years before blizzard was expecting.
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Simple solution: quintuple the number of drips each of us can put in the bucket, and allow us to control the drip rate.

(Or in other words, 50 items listed, control over the auction timer on each item).

Why would this help? First, flippers would be screwed by the greater volume of items they'd be competing with. The amount of price differential they can currently achieve by hoarding would be seriously impacted. They'd have to buy tens of additional accounts to hoard items, and that would squeeze the price gap further.

Timing our auctions allows us to run long auctions on high priced items, while attracting minimal bids on short-time listed less valuable stuff. As it is, no one wants to min-bid anything because they'll wait longer than a gaming session to win.

Finally, be like all reputable auction houses, and extend the bid time in the event of a last minute bid. This helps ensure a fair price on all items, and further discourages flippers by making them compete more fiercely for flippable items, and gets the original seller (whom I assume we all want to win in this scenario) more of the profit.
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You know guys... Our problem is that many of us, the players, thinks about D3 as a casino\poker\money game.

"sale", "luck" etc...

What happened with the feeling of ADVENTURE? EXPERIENCE? MOOD?

Blah-blah-blah... money this, money that.

Because those other things simply don't exist in Diablo 3. There is very little zone randomization, the story is childish, and no mood really exists (at least not a dark or gothic one). The game revolves around buying and selling items because it was designed around an auction house. That's about all the game is: "a casino/poker/money game".
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Posts: 4
I think they should have a limit of how many times an item can be posted on the ah like 3-5 depending on the rarity, also have a soul-bound system to reduce resale, also they need two more classes one new act and a much improved crafting system
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after a certain amount of time you just dump the bucket of water back into the source. (ladder) it's the only way.
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How about using scrolls as gold and item sink?

Scrolling your equipments will increase its base stats or adding additional stats which are desired, i.e. socket. And those scrolls will not come cheap too. You will have to pay and hunt items to make them.

This scrolling system is just a simple addition to the game for the purpose of allowing players to increase their edge in damage and resistance. And of course, scrolling will not be 100% success. It will be purely dictated by chance. Equipments that are badly scrolled are thrashed.
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maybe the brimstones etc is the new currency and we are slowly going away from gold?
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what I find crazy about this discussion are replies/responses about how we shouldn't even have an AH or RMAH.

Let me ask you all ..... if you make gold in this game... what is the point of not spending it?

I mean for myself I've collected over 100m gold so far on one of my characters. What on earth would I do with all that gold if not to spend it on "stuff". I mean come one... how many mythical potions would I buy... oh wait ... none because they drop ... let me instead spend money on gear from vendors.. oh wait... they are all even worse than what you pick up on the ground. hrmmmmm nothing but repairs to spend gold on except or dyes... or gem upgrades. Sure I could craft gear but well lets not even get into the whole crafting discussion as that is a goldsink that has 0 return for 99.99% of the people out there who try their hand at it.

What would happen in D3 if there was no AH .... well sites like d2jsp would be busy as could be with people swapping gear for either d2jsp gold or for IGG just like it came to be for previous a previous version of Diablo.

Having discussions like this seems to almost be similar to having discussions of "what if we didn't have any gun laws"... or What if we had not speed limits.... While one can theorize all the what ifs it doesn't change the fact we do have gun laws and we do have speed limits. Just like we do have the AH and that pretty much won't change.

From my perspective this type of topic and responses are a huge "time-sink" for us (myself included as I've spent time responding to this as 15pages worth of people have) about things that will not change and are a part of the game whether you like them or not... whether you partake in them or not... and whether you agree with it or not. It is the way the game has been built...
Edited by BubbaGump#1297 on 2/11/2013 8:13 AM PST
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