Diablo® III

Imagine a Bucket...

The benefit of the bucket is obvious. Without bucket, the water gonna drip into the ground, with the bucket the water gonna overflow the bucket and then drip to the ground. So with the bucket, people that need water fast can take it from the bucket, otherwise they probably forced to take it from the puddle in the ground or take time waiting until the drop fill the cup.

Please explain to me why is the overflowing bucket is a bad thing, except for aesthetic point of view ? It's definitely preferable to an empty bucket for those that's really thirsty and can't spend too much time.
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02/07/2013 08:35 PMPosted by Glock
Why would they use BoE they never have? The loot in this game doesn't work that way. Loot is entirely too random.


They're doing a lot of things in this game that they've never done before.

BoE or BoA gives weight to items, as there is a finite amount of times it can be traded/equipped. Randomness doesn't affect BoE or BoA, the item can still be randomly generated but the equip mechanics can be static

I'm saying if they want an economy so badly, there has to be a way to permanently remove an item from circulation. In the current setup, that's not really happening except for low level and useless items.
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I'm saying the lack of diverse affixes is what causes the massive AH use in the first place. We all know what affixes to "build" with, and that's what is sought after the most in the auction house. Everything else is just fluff and/or worse.

You're right, I don't need to find my own loot because we can trade. The problem is trading has taken 1st place to finding your own loot, hence the bucket overflows.


The bucket is definitely not overflowing... the good items are all very expensive. The problem is the "builds" you are referring to require all the same stats for all the same classes. Also, the only items really worth anything are those with good affix rolls and high rolls on them... these are also the hardest items to find. In D2 some of the "easier" to find items (uniques) were still ones that were used for end game builds. Some items were worth 1-4 SoJ's... some worth 10-20... and some worth lots more. In Diablo 3... the equivalent would be all the good items are worth 30-40 SoJs.... then you have all the other items that are worth fractions of SoJs and what not. (You can use High Runes in place of SoJ and its the same point).
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02/07/2013 08:35 PMPosted by Glock
So how is needing to "get rid of water" relevant?

It's relevant because it illustrates a point on why BoA might be necessary for D3's economy to exist and thrive.

In my opinion, the AH should have only been necessary to buy the amazing items. Not as a means to find and trade for EVERY single upgrade.

I am trying to illustrate the point that the water source is everflowing, and pretty soon will overflow our bucket and flood the room. It is at this point the market will crash.

You've already seen the effects. The AH becomes more and more saturated with amazing items so in order to keep the carrot on the stick, Blizzard has had to increase the drop rates of items to compensate. Which in turn perpetuates the saturation of amazing items in the Auction House. The more amazing the items are, the less they're worth in comparison to each other.

However, since there are no valid gold sinks in the game either, the gold is everflowing as well. But the bucket on our gold supply is everexpanding to compensate and thus, items have become hyperinflated leaving those with smaller wallets lusting for more.

The loot model presented with this game created this problem. Now it's time it's fixed. BoA helps alleviate that, but really doesn't prevent a great solution.
________________________________________________
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
I don't have moderation powers and I am not a Blizzard Representative.
MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2
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Get rid of the bucket and give everyone a tap.
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take the bucket
do what neverwinter and elder scrolls online did
make a beautiful :D
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Incorrect. A common fallacy of looking at one desirable consequence of program without assessing the costs.

First, there is already a way to drain the bucket. It is the vendor. Every time a better item is entered in the system there is a tiny devaluing of every worse item, as all value is relative. So, the worst item in the system that was one notch from vendor trash now becomes vendor trash. It does not sell, at any price, and the seller removes the item from the "bucket" and vendors it. That is very simplified, but its basically how it works.

Ok, that's how it works...

But as you said...

02/07/2013 08:38 PMPosted by Recluce
Making drops less valuable is bad.

This is in essence a stark contradiction to what you have stated is already there.

So wouldn't it be better to agree that there's a problem and to now find a solution?
________________________________________________
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
I don't have moderation powers and I am not a Blizzard Representative.
MVP FAQ: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4038704716#2
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Unfortunately, this "drip" has turned into a small yet steady stream.. and peopl are now trying to sell there cups of water, on look at general and " WTS (Unidentified) " will pop up multiple times per min.

Witch leads me to one solution, dont allow players to sell there cups, only sell ID'd items in trade box. That can do one of two things.. Eliminate the "junk" to a vendor or they will pour their cup back into the bucket.... Wait.. what was that? Pour their cup back into the bucket??!!!

My solution, Dont allow players to pour their cup back into the bucket.. You're only allowed to post an item ONCE in the AH for a 24-48 hour period, your choice.. Then you either, vendor it... or sell it through /Trade.. a different "join-able" chat group than is not displayed all the time. Cleaning up General Chat for... General chat.. (posting an item in General Chat will cut you off for 1 min, then 5min, 1 hour, then 24 hours) Want a question answered in General about an item without the penalty.. Find someone willing and Private message them
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02/07/2013 08:41 PMPosted by Drothvader
It's relevant because it illustrates a point on why BoA might be necessary for D3's economy to exist and thrive.


You can easily look up the price of items on the AH. If you implement something into this game that does nothing but take desireable items from the economy... that will make the prices go up. If that is what you want, then fine... but that sounds undesirable to me.

I on the other hand think they need to make loot more diverse, in affixes and in drop rates.
Edited by BannedName#1439 on 2/7/2013 8:46 PM PST
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02/07/2013 08:41 PMPosted by Glock
The bucket is definitely not overflowing... the good items are all very expensive. The problem is the "builds" you are referring to require all the same stats for all the same classes. Also, the only items really worth anything are those with good affix rolls and high rolls on them... these are also the hardest items to find. In D2 some of the "easier" to find items (uniques) were still ones that were used for end game builds. Some items were worth 1-4 SoJ's... some worth 10-20... and some worth lots more. In Diablo 3... the equivalent would be all the good items are worth 30-40 SoJs.... then you have all the other items that are worth fractions of SoJs and what not. (You can use High Runes in place of SoJ and its the same point).


It seems you're looking more at the currency and exchange rate, while I'm referring more to the quantity and volume that the AHs are used, and in return just how much stuff is dumped on it.

Regardless, you're correct in pretty much everything you've listed here.
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im thirsty
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02/07/2013 08:45 PMPosted by Matticles
It seems you're looking more at the currency and exchange rate, while I'm referring more to the quantity and volume that the AHs are used, and in return just how much stuff is dumped on it.


I get yeah. I understand the desire some people have to just get away from the AH as much as they can. But at the same time.. I don't see implementing something that would drastically affect those that do already use the AH. However, something that could clean up "junk" per say... I could see that. People will throw up anything.

If I went back and looked at the loot for D2... there are items that were used end game... some people found lots of... some were more rare... some were very rare. Drop rates and drops varied over the life of the game... but there was always a good range of the drops. In D3 all the gear you want/need is also the most rare. Right now it is vary hard to "trade up" from items you find. You have to either farm ALOT or hit the lottery. And even farming is hard to turn a profit... you really have to hit the lottery multiple times to get loot. In D2 you could hit small lotteries, medium lotteries...big ones...and mega ones..etc. I think that is what is missing from this game.
Edited by BannedName#1439 on 2/7/2013 8:52 PM PST
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Unfortunately, this "drip" has turned into a small yet steady stream.. and people are now trying to sell there cups of water, on look at general and " WTS (Unidentified) " will pop up multiple times per min.

Witch leads me to one solution, dont allow players to sell there cups, only sell ID'd items in trade box. That can do one of two things.. Eliminate the "junk" to a vendor or they will pour their cup back into the bucket.... Wait.. what was that? Pour their cup back into the bucket??!!!

My solution, Dont allow players to pour their cup back into the bucket.. You're only allowed to post an item ONCE in the AH for a 24-48 hour period, your choice.. Then you either, vendor it... or sell it through /Trade.. a different "join-able" chat group than is not displayed all the time. Cleaning up General Chat for... General chat.. (posting an item in General Chat will cut you off for 1 min, then 5min, 1 hour, then 24 hours) Want a question answered in General about an item without the penalty.. Find someone willing and Private message them


Once an a single item is placed into the AH its mark as "VOID" and if sold to another player.. They also can not list it on the AH, forcing buyers to use the item, or.. disenchant it..

This solution will not only bring stability back to the games economy but will eliminate botters as well.
Edited by XSteelX#1709 on 2/7/2013 8:55 PM PST
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02/07/2013 08:48 PMPosted by Glock
I get yeah. I understand the desire some people have to just get away from the AH as much as they can. But at the same time.. I don't see implementing something that would drastically affect those that do already use the AH. However, something that could clean up "junk" per say... I could see that. People will throw up anything.


Which is why I mentioned BoE. I don't necessarily like the auction houses, but I'm not going to say they aren't useful, because they definitely are. With BoE though, you can retain value and the auction houses (trading is still there, just limited to one shot if the item is equipped).

All your items can still be traded and the value should hold fairly steady. In addition, you could probably reel in the drop rates and improve quality as well as the affix pool.

02/07/2013 08:48 PMPosted by Glock
If I went back and looked at the loot for D2... there are items that were used end game... some people found lots of... some were more rare... some were very rare. Drop rates and drops varied over the life of the game... but there was always a good range of the drops. In D3 all the gear you want/need is also the most rare. Right now it is vary hard to "trade up" from items you find. You have to either farm ALOT or hit the lottery. And even farming is hard to turn a profit... you really have to hit the lottery multiple times to get loot. In D2 you could hit small lotteries, medium lotteries...big ones...and mega ones..etc. I think that is what is missing from this game.


I agree 100%.
Edited by Matticles#1220 on 2/7/2013 8:54 PM PST
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The economy is fine. It corrects itself. I still sell stuff, and I still buy stuff if I need to. The super low prices on non-godly gear make it easy to gear up a fresh 60 if I choose to. Occasionally I find a wicked good drop that sells for a lot.

So yeah, this "bucket"... it's fine. Who cares if water is overflowing out of it? (Even though it's not because this whole analogy is kinda off).

Edit: I say this as someone who is FOR the BoA items. But not because of any affect they may or may not have on the AH. But just because they're cool.
Edited by Hoblin#1659 on 2/7/2013 8:58 PM PST
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kick the bucket and go to churches
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02/07/2013 08:57 PMPosted by steakncheese
BoE only works in theory. Realistically people will simply not equip anything sub-par. You already see this with purchases on legendaries. Why buy that 1000 DPS weapon for X, when you can save and buy that 1100 DPS weapon for Y.


Anything sub-par is probably going to get salvaged or vendored anyway.

I understand your post, but in your example, if that 1100 DPS weapon is BoE and it's equipped, that 1000 DPS weapon is still on the market for the next buyer. The 1100 DPS weapon isn't coming back and therefore has a higher value (value is relative to the buyer in this example).

In any event, they've got to find a way to make the economy work if they insist on trying to keep it.
Edited by Matticles#1220 on 2/7/2013 9:06 PM PST
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02/07/2013 08:44 PMPosted by Drothvader
So wouldn't it be better to agree that there's a problem and to now find a solution?


I am not sure what the problem is nor how crafting fixes it. I agree its good to have decent gold sinks, but overpowered crafting in the form of BoA probably is not one of them.

Beside, if your solution to a problem causes another problem (which I believe I made the case for) how is that helping anything?

I see two problems that can be cured. One is bots. Item inflation, as well as gold inflation, hurts everyone. It is especially painful to casual and new players. It makes it very hard to sell items as item inflation makes drops worth less, and it keeps the truly godly items that people lust after WAY expensive and out of reach as the top .000001 is always .000001 (since our definition of godly changes and moves up as item appear) so the gold inflation outpaces the completely static number of "best items" in the game. So, if feels like players are running in place. Yes great items become really cheap, but they can never accumulate wealth and build to one of those one of kind items.

Solution 1: Spend more resources on removing bots.

The second problem is with stagnation. Early game we were all in a state of high item turnover, relatively frequent upgrades, and were not lacking in challenges. We need to again bring up the upgrade curve, and add some challenges that feel less forced than MP.

Solution 2: Add not just more items, but more content, including optional challenging content that is more than just cranking a dial.

I know those solutions cost money. I can only hope that rmah proceeds justify the expenditure. And that the expenditure will spurn more proceeds, which can just justify the next expenditure.
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