Diablo® III

A promise of things to come...

A few months ago there was a blue post about how they were looking into revamping the Demon Hunter class so that hatred was more used than discipline for damage dealing and make the discipline more defensive. So far not a peep on how that kind of testing is going or when we can expect any changes to the class. At the moment discipline regeneration has been killed in the new gear for less powerful set bonuses like +20 disc 4 set nats. So after months of waiting the new patch notes come out...and Monk and Wizard are getting massive bonuses. The least that could be done would be a look at the demon hunter and a few ideas thrown out again. Any day now...you axed Jay Wilson so please...fix the demon hunter while he's in a cave somewhere.
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Fix the Demon Hunter??

This implies that the Demon Hunter is broken, my Demon Hunter is not broken.

If your Demon Hunter is broken then you need to look no farther than yourself.
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couldn't agree more with OP. iv'e played DH,Barb and Wiz, DH is fun to play but the skill build and set-up is just broken.
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I would say just fix your gear Herbailzer. It depends ALOT on your set up and your suffering servilely in crit chance. Add more of that and I think you'll find things fall over much more easily.
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DH is the strongest. If any, he got to be nerfed
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I see no issues with DH itself from a hatred/disc perspective. there are gear and skills to either increase hatred or help regen it faster. There are skills to help replenish disc faster if you crit (Nightstalker). I'm not seeing any issues unless you are a player who just wants to do nothing else but spam hatred skills or want perma-smokescreen.

There really aren't a ton of disc spenders used for offense. Caltrops is really one of the only skills that one would consider it being "offensive" if using the bait the trap rune giving additional 10% CC. pretty much other runes do some damage or snaring but mostly would be considered more defense based than offense based. The downside to caltrops is placement. Caltrops forces you to retreat where caltrops are layed at your feet and then you retreat to have the mobs come over them for activation (other than the CC one). Many use spiked traps with either echoing or scatter runes which is a hatred spender instead of caltrops now a days. what exact "disc" spenders are you referring to as offensive type skills? others like smokescreen/shadowpower/vault/MFD/etc seem to be pretty much defensive/survivability skills no?
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My gear works fine for almost all MP I have very little trouble running almost any spec I want. The problems I present are that the class was going to be looked at to change the management of skills to allow more hatred focused builds. I have no idea how blizzard wanted to change things that's why I asked. And yes I am not the one calling to "fix the class" blizzard said it first and then said nothing for 6 months. I would like to see nightstalker improved as well as other passives that demon hunters NEVER use. The point was to bring a variety of builds to the passive tree that pretty much lay idle because they do nothing to improve damage. The design philosophy of these skills needs to have a serious looking at. I have no idea what kinds of design problems they are having, however not addressing the demon hunter at all in the patch notes is troublesome. They left me hangin bro.
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I wish they change Nightstalker to be more appealing like adding more benefits like how they did Perfectionist. The disc per crit is already good but why not maybe allow like a MFD bonus for 30% or something like how calamities are or temporary ehp boost. Anything will help. Makes it more appealing.
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as if nightstalker isn't OP enough...
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Even thou the nata shadow 4pc give you +3 per second = 90 disc
Just with 50 disc you usually will not run out. You can roll double the stat on the new set so why are you not even using 2pc??

If they are to change something, I would ask they change or buff Perfectionist and give me a dual-wield passive.

#Perfectionist#
Reduces the Discipline cost of all skills by 15%.
Increases your Life, Armor and all of your resistances by 15%.
or
Increases your Life by 10% and increase maximum discipline by 10.
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I think that a lot of the skills could be combined to be useful. Nightstalker is a great skill, but it could be better for lesser geared players. The changes I want to see are mainly around skill combination like blending Brooding and Nightstalker so that more defensive abilities could be more viable in passives. They could also combine hot pursuit and thrill of the hunt considering how useless the two skills are. Numbing traps should also be given a look at. I think that the skill should have a proc that lowers the armor and resistances of all monsters for 2 seconds. These kinds of skill revamps would be a welcome sign that the class is being worked on.

Hatred Generators suck all around. The overall hate generated from all of these skills needs to be increased by 1 or 2 points. Hungering arrow should also be re-worked to have more function within each skill. Scatter shoot is fine, spray of teeth needs an animation and should also have a proc that could give you an extra shot when you land a big crit with it. Devouring arrow needs to also have some improvement done to allow you to gain more hatred after a pierce. Cinder arrow is a joke and needs to be looked at. Perhaps a crit chance proc to do increased fire damage over shorter time duration.

Entangling shot needs to have work done to make it better by allowing hatred gain of 1 per second every 3 seconds when an enemy is snared. This could make it worth using.

Bola shot- bitter pill needs to have a 20% discipline regen and 3 discipline per chance with a 5 discipline restore proc of 1% could make it much more fun to use.

Grenades - the skill is so bad it needs a huge overhaul. Perhaps you wonderful folks in the comments could tell me how you would like to see grenades become better.

thanks for listening to my thoughts. please share yours. I like to see how everyone sees weakness in their characters.
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Even thou the nata shadow 4pc give you +3 per second = 90 disc
Just with 50 disc you usually will not run out. You can roll double the stat on the new set so why are you not even using 2pc??



I don't have $ to maintain 2 sets, and why spend it on a set that depreciates faster
Edited by Shdwflare#1288 on 2/8/2013 10:25 AM PST
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Yes! I agree! Archery should not be the only thing that helps dual wield! It's funny how they say you can use 2 1h xbows...yet it's the least viable option to use in game.
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have no clue on your responses OP looking at your above replies.

1/2 the time you are talking about passives. I thought the point of this was discussion about moving offensive things from DISC over to hatred spenders????

or am I missing something here and this topic has just derailed into something else?
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I think that trail of cinders compared with smoke screen choking gas would be a good way to enter the discussion on how to change the way discipline does damage. Personally I have never seen anyone use the choking gas ability and compared to something like trail of cinders it is weak. Choking gas could use a boost by giving hatred for every target hit. Trail of cinders could have it's damage reduced 30% and then add a hatred gain modified to crit chance on hit. Things like this could make the system more integrated. I don't want to see the hatred and discipline become more polarized, I want to see them combined more. I think that discipline needs to be a resource that has more synergy with hatred generation considering how terrible the hatred generator are. Unless the devs decide to fix hate generators to proc for discipline. Either design path would be cool. I want to hear your thoughts on what path would be best to take.
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Of all the classes I believe DH to be the most "unbroken" other than barb. Offensively and defensively solid active and passive skills that sync well w each other.
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02/08/2013 12:01 AMPosted by Herbalizer
A few months ago there was a blue post about how they were looking into revamping the Demon Hunter class so that hatred was more used than discipline for damage dealing and make the discipline more defensive. So far not a peep on how that kind of testing is going or when we can expect any changes to the class.


Did this post come before patch 1.0.5? Maybe they already made the change such as when they changed Sentry to cost hatred instead of discipline.

02/08/2013 10:50 AMPosted by Herbalizer
I think that trail of cinders compared with smoke screen choking gas would be a good way to enter the discussion on how to change the way discipline does damage. Personally I have never seen anyone use the choking gas ability and compared to something like trail of cinders it is weak. Choking gas could use a boost by giving hatred for every target hit. Trail of cinders could have it's damage reduced 30% and then add a hatred gain modified to crit chance on hit.


I think the problem with Choking Gas is that the mob must stay in the cloud to get the full damage, and the cloud radius is very small. 700% damage over 5 seconds is decent, but not if it's only going to work for one or two ticks. If you allowed the DoT to remain even after exiting the cloud and widened the radius similar to the Barb's Rend, you would see a huge increase in the use of that skill in PvP. I think the same is true of Trail of Cinders. The DoT applies only as long as they are standing on the fire. If it continued burning for the full duration even after leaving the trail, you'd see it become popular in PvP especially against Barbs and Monks.
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The post was after 1.05 the dev's said they would continue to work on the skills of the demon hunter. You are completely right about Choking Gas and Trail of Cinders. I think that the final rune skills for demon hunters could use another once over especially poison damage. Poison seems very weak compared to direct damage. We see this in gear where people avoid bleed damage like the plague. Increasing the radius of Choking Gas would make it much better, and reducing the timer from 5 second to 3 would make it a lot more viable. I also believe that a percent of your critical hit damage should scale with traps considering the only way to make them better is by stacking dex. This leaves out 2 major demon hunter stats from being used. The demon hunter needs to have some work done on it still, and the initial changes really made a difference. Fire damage from trail of cinders should be reduced 15% for monsters inside, but should at the same time apply a 3 second decrease to resistances and apply a DoT that can be smoke screened out of.
I love the demon hunter forums. thanks guys your the best.
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Only hatred generator that needs to be fixed is grenades, which they said they were going to fix a couple patches ago. As far as entangling shot i wish it entangled like 4-6 w/o a rune chosen or a rune that entangle a whole group of mobs within like a 10-15yd radius. They're passives that I wish could be viable to use hopefully they will get reworked and there is absolutely nothing wrong with nightstalker, maybe because I use a calamity and I feel that it is a must have on every DH unless you run legacy nats.

Once your geared they're isn't a lot to complain about DH. There is only small things that need to be addressed.
Edited by DaRkCroNo#1494 on 2/8/2013 7:12 PM PST
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Bring back NT!!!!
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