Diablo® III

Rend and Whirlwind

Many of you know that I have been extolling the virtues of Rend for the longest time. Now comes Nubtro with more fascinating details about Rend's synergy with the Double Tornado build.

I also run without a Fury generator recently (WW+RLTW+OPKS+Rend) but anyway...

Your WW after Rend should always use the OH tick frequency for the duriation of channeling until the next Rend.

RLTW while WWing is impossible to determine because WW does indeed alternate what is considered last weapon swung for RLTW (WW frequency stays the same but it changes for RLTW) - what I found out is that the game uses the aps value displayed in the character screen details for determining which weapon aps is used for RLTW.

What I mean is of course it uses the exact non-rounded value but the frequency is determined by which weapon aps was shown last before you cast Sprint.

Here´s some of the posts about the research
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497?page=9#165
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497?page=9#167
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497?page=9#169

The last one contains the major info. My bad for not adding it to the first post for such a long time.

EDIT: added the "RLTW while channeling WW" info to the first post. I´ll retest if Rend always resets back to MH displayed aps.

EDIT2: Yep Rend always stops to swing with MH so the next WW will always tick at the OH frequency. Sprint click after Rend but before WW click should tick at MH frequency but the next Sprint frequency may change while you channel WW, depending on what weapon aps was displayed last before clicking Sprint.


This is hugely important because the majority of us utilise a fast main hand and faster off hand set-up. Using Rend can 'reset' the hand orientation and allow you to cast tornadoes from the offhand's attack speed.

The more you know!
Reply Quote
that is interesting, I never read that part in his thread.

I think for most of the upper geared players that this would be useful for the 2.86(?) breakpoint. Hitting the 2.5 seems easy to me once you set out to do it. That being said I have yet to do so, trying to get the most bang for my buck on the offhand EF still.
Reply Quote
that is interesting, I never read that part in his thread.

I think for most of the upper geared players that this would be useful for the 2.86(?) breakpoint. Hitting the 2.5 seems easy to me once you set out to do it. That being said I have yet to do so, trying to get the most bang for my buck on the offhand EF still.


It is pretty easy, but I have always, and I mean ALWAYS, preferred a mace to an axe. In fact, the last time I had an axe in my main hand was back in June or July. Once I got a mace, I couldn't go back. The Echoing Fury's crits aren't as good as a rare mace, but Rend FTW!
Reply Quote
02/08/2013 09:42 AMPosted by acrimonious
The Echoing Fury's crits aren't as good as a rare mace


do you mean you run with a rare mace as your offhand?
Reply Quote
02/08/2013 09:52 AMPosted by LordZeus
The Echoing Fury's crits aren't as good as a rare mace


do you mean you run with a rare mace as your offhand?


Main. My tick rate without a Mempo would be around the 2.5-2.85 range fully buffed in the main hand. So my offhand would always be faster.
Reply Quote
Ugh, I wish they would make dual wield tornado a bit more balanced. Why does sprint never match damage per tick to the weapon speed it is referencing? Dual wield should have a fury generation advantage, but the fact your offhand is faster than main hand should not help you 'swing' your main hand faster. Is this logical? I know this is a game, but seriously... makes no sense imo.

Why is the skill designed like this? To make a market for low dps, high stat offhands?

Is there some exploit they are preventing by making this skill work like this? Like swapping in different weapons on the fly, so this mechanic would be exploited anyway, just more annoying to pull off? Maybe they should have just put a few seconds cooldown on all skills whenever you swap equipment to prevent 'snapshotting'?

I don't think the build should die, just some of the mechanics make it so OP for dual wield while making any other dual wield spec terrible in comparison. I think it hurts build diversity for dual wield barbs. When using different weapon speeds, WW is the clear winner for any situation.

TL;DR - nerf everyone except 2H and SnB

/flame suit on
Reply Quote
Ugh, I wish they would make dual wield tornado a bit more balanced. Why does sprint never match damage per tick to the weapon speed it is referencing? Dual wield should have a fury generation advantage, but the fact your offhand is faster than main hand should not help you 'swing' your main hand faster. Is this logical? I know this is a game, but seriously... makes no sense imo.

Why is the skill designed like this? To make a market for low dps, high stat offhands?

Is there some exploit they are preventing by making this skill work like this? Like swapping in different weapons on the fly, so this mechanic would be exploited anyway, just more annoying to pull off? Maybe they should have just put a few seconds cooldown on all skills whenever you swap equipment to prevent 'snapshotting'?

I don't think the build should die, just some of the mechanics make it so OP for dual wield while making any other dual wield spec terrible in comparison. I think it hurts build diversity for dual wield barbs. When using different weapon speeds, WW is the clear winner for any situation.

TL;DR - nerf everyone except 2H and SnB

/flame suit on


Uh what? It doesn't help you "swing your mainhand faster". RLTW is based on mainhand damage. The APS the ticks are based off can change. 2nd, this only matters for barbs who are using MH EF (or a rare slow weapon) and offhand IAS sword or dagger. For example, it doesn't matter what hand my RLTW is going to proc off, because I dual wield maces (EF OH, although I might have a mighty weapon MH from farming). This is by far the most common EF setup since MH EF is way out of most player's budgets.

Also, there are no exploits with this. You'd have to have a macro (which is already against the TOS) to swap weapons even if you were synching your swings by using rend, and even then all you stand to gain is one breakpoint... if for some reason you're using a MH EF and a slow offhand.

TLDR: I don't see how this is overpowered at all. Even with rend synching your next RLTW to use your offhand speed it only affects players that run one very specific weapon setup, and those players get the benefit of one extra breakpoint... that they already geared to take advantage of at least half of the time anyways.
Reply Quote
Yea, I don't see an issue with the synergy of Rend and Whirlwind. As bigtexasdan said, it only affects one contingent of Whirlwind Barbarians. Just like how HoTA + WW favours Skorn Barbarians. There's a lot of diversity with the Whirlwind Barbarian -- I fail to see how it affects the other classes or builds.

@Jim -- I know you remember my set-up. I utilised a rare mace and my sword. I was able to break 26/26 before switching to the Echoing Fury for 26/30 breakpoints (techincally 23/30 with the Stone of Jordan). But I always extolled Rend, especially after Lorenze quit. I was just lucky to have had a build that quietly synergised with Rend; it's something I am going to be mindful of when I build my Hardcore Barbarian back to a Whirlwind Barb.
Reply Quote
Cool, he's using my build. Good to know how it works.
Reply Quote
02/08/2013 06:47 PMPosted by Wayneold
Cool, he's using my build. Good to know how it works.


You sound bitter.
Reply Quote
02/08/2013 06:54 PMPosted by acrimonious
Cool, he's using my build. Good to know how it works.


You sound bitter.


Not at all....I appreciate his work. When I mentioned the build he was skeptical at first, but I am glad to see it is catching on.
Reply Quote
Wait a second. Your build? lulz. You attempting to troll or something?
Reply Quote
02/08/2013 07:01 PMPosted by acrimonious
Wait a second. Your build? lulz. You attempting to troll or something?


Aww man....cmon, where are you going with this? Here is the topic where Nubtro and I started this discussion:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7709112489?page=3

This is the build I have used in a bunch of videos and I am sure other people have used it, but the no fury generator with Rend and OP:KS is something I was using for a while....
Reply Quote
02/08/2013 07:07 PMPosted by Wayneold
Wait a second. Your build? lulz. You attempting to troll or something?


Aww man....cmon, where are you going with this? Here is the topic where Nubtro and I started this discussion:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7709112489?page=3

This is the build I have used in a bunch of videos and I am sure other people have used it, but the no fury generator with Rend and OP:KS is something I was using for a while....


Bro, are you dense? Alkaizer created the Rend + WW build; being disingenuous by inferring it as your build is a pathetic low for you. Even more, the OPKS + Rend build was in effect during the first time the PTR came out when myself, PhatPhoEater, and many others were trying it out. You're not special buddy.

"My build." Hilarious.
Reply Quote
Wat.

I thought the optimal DW for higher geared WW barbs is rare mace mainhand and EF offhand (AKA same APS both hands)

(Of course for WW barbs with $15,000 to spend, there are godly EFs for mainhands)
Reply Quote
Alright man, whatever....I had a huge battle with you on how fury generators are a crutch, I have always stuck to a no fury generator build, and I don't claim to own the build, but I call it my build because its the build that I use....therefore, my build....

I never claimed to create it.

Way to come at me bro.....
Edited by Wayneold#1685 on 2/8/2013 7:20 PM PST
Reply Quote
If it makes you less butthurt I will refer to it as "the build I also use but was probably created by acrimony or someone else better than me."
Reply Quote
02/08/2013 07:27 PMPosted by Wayneold
If it makes you less butthurt I will refer to it as "the build I also use but was probably created by acrimony or someone else better than me."


I created nothing. I also didn't call it 'my build'. Even better, you used to take quite the aromatic dump on Rend the longest time. I guess you should be thanking me for bringing you over, WayneOld.
Reply Quote
...your arrogance is astounding. It makes me embarassed for you.

Also, please reference me to the posts where I say bad things about Rend....I don't remember those....
Edited by Wayneold#1685 on 2/8/2013 7:37 PM PST
Reply Quote
You must have heavily invested emotional involvement with me if you feel embarrassed for me. Thanks, I think.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]