Diablo® III

WW Build - Bash: Instigation vs. Punish

Now I'm sure I'm not the first person to do this or try this but I feel like it's worth mentioning anyways. Also, the reason I specified the WW Build in the title is because that's my full-time build and I don't know if other builds do this or not.

Today I was screwing around with some skills and decided to try Bash - Punish instead of the tried and true Instigation. I have to say, I'm surprised I haven't heard of people doing this more often. The damage increase it gives is more than noticeable. It honestly feels like that transition that we inevitably make from War Cry - Impunity to OPKS and the damage increase that ensues.

d3rawr results

Buffed (Battle Rage, WotB, OPKS) ------- NO PUNISH:
tDPS - 1216874
tDPS vs. Elites - 1630611

Buffed (Battle Rage, WotB, OPKS) ------- WITH PUNISH:
tDPS - 1823830
tDPS vs. Elites - 2443932

That's more than a little significant. tDPS with Punish exceeds my tDPS vs Elites without it.

The only difference I noticed was the minor change I had to make in my playstyle. I found myself having to stop every 5 seconds or so on elites (assuming they took that long to kill in the first place), to refresh the Punish stack. But to be honest, that didn't bother me even a little bit. I was able to kill elites much faster on average which in the end is what really matters. I could even see myself moving up at least an MP level just from playing like this.

At first I thought this might hurt my WotB up-time, but after a few runs I noticed that it made no difference whatsoever. In fact other than using Bash a little bit more to get the stack, nothing changed at all (other than my damage).

- Does anybody else use this full time?
- Have you tried it?
- Is there a good reason why this shouldn't be used full time?

I'm seriously thinking about using this full time.
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Only other skill to compete with this would be rend, but rend does not help as much when fighting a single elite. Bash has more utility for getting enough fury and is easier to use than a no fury generator WW build.

Frenzy swings faster, so you may find maniac easier to maintain, plus it has a buff icon.
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I don't use it, main reason it's too much work to keep refreshing it or stacking it if it went off. second is even the 1 second that took to refresh it, it still offset some dmg output from WW and laying down another tornadoes, so in the end the gain does not justify for the work for my laziness. I tried doing this with uber fights, but still, I prefer to just drop fury generator completely and go with rend + blood luster, re-applying rend every 5 seconds is much better than refreshing bash as it gives similar dps gain while you still get to have extra life steal.
Edited by samuiotoko#1231 on 2/8/2013 5:15 PM PST
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I can understand it might be a little bit annoying to use but I would assume by playing this way full time it would be no different than getting used to spamming another skill like rend or something. Having said that, I've never used Rend so I'm only speculating.
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I used Frenzy exclusively until about 3 weeks ago when I discovered the boost in TDPS that Bash/Punish provides....haven't looked back.
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once I had enough fury regen I started using Punish over Instigate and never looked back,
at 2aps if 2/4 bash crits that should give you 46 fury , assuming into the fray procs, and 8% dmg boost per hit
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Ok. Now I feel cheated that you people didn't tell me about this before. Where were the topics people?

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I use it for ubers. For farming I stick with instigation, since with instigation you can actually gain duration on WOTB just by spamming bash + sprint/BR on one target.
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02/09/2013 12:21 AMPosted by bigtexasdan
I use it for ubers. For farming I stick with instigation, since with instigation you can actually gain duration on WOTB just by spamming bash + sprint/BR on one target.

In this case you should use onslaught to avoid the knock back effect.
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This is not a secret. Most Bash barbs use Punish exclusively. Most of the time you don't really Bash very much. If something is tough enough to Bash, it is something you would have Based anyway. Punish is just icing on the cake.

I have been experimenting with a 2.86 setup and Rend. It works really well if you pay attention when you are playing. I've done some ubers in a group with a ww/rend setup and it was very good. Although I prefer the tried and true Overpower/Punish setup with high life steal.
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