Diablo® III

HoTA + WW + Rend farming build....revisited

I've attempted something like this before... but I found it frustrating clunky to start off. Not so bad when you have regular trash mobs etc.... but when you need to start this off with some hard E's, EEeek.

But my curosity is peaked... I might have to consider loosing the 3 x offensive passives I so love. lol

You know what would be so cool... Fury Potions... Man that would be sweet.

Or... I wish it was possible to force Normal attack. (don't see why that shouldn't be an option).
Edited by Poobah#1136 on 2/11/2013 5:02 AM PST
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I was using this build the other day and it works great, but only at MP8-10. Anything less and it's just too hard to keep up fury. It let's u kill trash mobs with rend and use the hota on the elites. Brawler also stays up a lot more when you stop to rend/hota. The key is to only hota for 5 sec while the rend/nados are leeching life, and then move. A Litany also makes a night and day difference with the AR and Elite Reduction, but cuts into the dps a bit. I'd use this build more if I had more cc, but I feel like I need killing spree until I can afford a crit mempo.
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Apparently it directly applies to the Brawler passive, but not to Rend. Which is really weird given that the radius of Rend applies similarly.


@ ACrimony: So ur saying pick up radius boosts the radius of Brawler? I have never heard that before.
Edited by LordZeus#1756 on 2/11/2013 8:12 AM PST
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Ran it last night on MP10 -worked great! I don't see it working well on lower MP either. Actually pretty efficient at high MP - helps take down elites / single targets quickly, while still having ww/rltw for larger clusters of mobs.

Fun!
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Posts: 6,837
02/11/2013 08:11 AMPosted by LordZeus
Apparently it directly applies to the Brawler passive, but not to Rend. Which is really weird given that the radius of Rend applies similarly.


@ ACrimony: So ur saying pick up radius boosts the radius of Brawler? I have never heard that before.


I read it somewhere a couple of weeks ago. Forgot to bookmark it and make a note of who posted it. More up-to-date Softcore Barbarians can appropriately answer that.
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[quote]

Contrary to popular belief there is some measure of skill involved in this game. ;)


Yes, there's no doubt you have this style practiced very well. It took me re-watching your videos several times to emulate the way you whirlwinded to regain fury whenever you went dry, and you still managed to barely ride on the edge of dropping wrath while never actually doing so.

With that said, I respectfully disagree with some of your spec and gearing choices.

Firstly, I'm surprised that you say that a SoJ (I presume HotA reduction) made things worse. Yes, you lose IAS, but in your current spec, you have room for more in your ammy, belt, and pants. I would pick two (or even all 3), and swap one of the rare rings for a SoJ. There were several instances in your video when you went completely dry on one or two mobs and needed to use white attacks and subsequently whirlwind to keep your fury going. -5 reduction would have made it possible for you to spam HotA instead, and deal a much higher amount of damage...additionally it'd have increased your HotA crit chance significantly. I'm betting you saw DAKKON's video. I don't remember him ever having to use white attacks. The HotA SoJ was partly what allowed him to seamlessly switch between whirlwinding and HotA. I've been running HotA without a fury generator for quite some time myself, and it never felt viable until I got a HotA SoJ. My kill times nearly halved when I was able to use HotA purely when compared to intertwining frenzy or bash to refresh fury. White attacks are even worse.

My other issue was you using tough as nails as your third passive, but it looks like you switched to superstition, which is a much better choice. I've started to prefer going further and using animosity, and switching rend to blood lust to combat any survivability issues. I've tried pretty much every rune of rend, and no matter what I'm doing, I always seem to come back to blood lust. Blood lust reduces your damage by less than 30% when compared to Lacerate, but doubles your healing. The tradeoff, to me, seems completely worthwhile to allow me to make my third passive purely offensive.

Third...not enough IAS. Whirlwind with Skorn feels clunky at this level. Like Taco5 said, it's only viable in a very high MP. If you switch to using 7 slots of IAS, it becomes possible to perma-wrath across multiple zones. You can make it work with less as you did, but it won't have the smoothness that comes with higher breakpoints, and essentially makes you rely on killing stuff slowly enough to force fury generation. IMHO, properly gearing around a build like this with Skorn entails hitting the 1.81 aps breakpoint, and using HotA reduction.
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@ sliverfire, of course there is room to improve in my gear, also the video I posted was literally with about 2-3 hours of running this build under my belt and I admitted as much that the video was very rough around the edges. The video was just meant to be an example and proof of concept to show others the viability of the build.

I'll also address the SoJ and my reasoning behind me not using one. I do have a -4 HoTA SoJ in my stash that I tested with and found myself to be more fury starved with it for the simple fact that it lowers my overall crit chance by 4% and my attack speed by 6%. This may not sound like much but it was enough for me to notice a difference and have to plan my fury spending much more in detail. In this build your main fury generator is RLTW's tornadoes and the slower they tick and less chance they have to crit means less fury returned to you. Now of course someone with much better gear than I have can work a SoJ in and have fantastic results. I wasn't saying that for everyone a SoJ is a bad idea, I meant for me in my current gear state it was. The bigger damage a SoJ delivers against elites is really of no use if you don't have the fury to spend to spam HoTA anyway.

Third, this build was never meant for very low MP or meant to be a replacement for any of the more traditional builds. This build is a fun build to play that leaves you with options to deal with what the situation needs.

Next I'll touch on attack speed. At 1.4 APS using a WW/HoTA hybrid build I don't have any problems maintaining perma-WoTB for an entire level. I'm getting to that point now with this build after spending more time with it and retraining my muscle memory for the skills. I'm sorry to say to you, that if you're having issues with maintaining perma-WoTB at your IAS and CC chance this is purely a skill issue on your end or unfamiliarity with the mechanics of this build.

I'll post a video later for a current state of affairs for me and this build. I think you'll be surprised at how well I can maintain WoTB and maintain fury using this build. That 1st video take that as a teaser or as waht I intended it to be, just an example of the workings of the build.
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You are correct that I'm very unfamiliar with running any sort of WW with a Skorn, and what you're showing certainly takes finesse. I only run WW with a mighty weapon mainhand and 2.5 APS, and it's actually almost a mystery to me how anyone can do it with any less after getting accustomed to it. The other problem is that I've been doing MP6 or 7 at most at which point I still kill things a lot faster than you do in MP10. I'd probably need to go up to at least 8 to get a similar effect.

The whole skill aspect thing is similar to the constant debate that wayneold and acrimony had about EHP. If nothing else, more APS makes things easier, and ww/sprint as a whole has a lot more skill attached to it than people give it credit for. It's just that the closer you get to BIS gear, the more that skill component disappears.

When I switched to a SoJ, I replaced a hellfire ring with nothing but 7 IAS and added inna's simultaneously...so I was coming from a pretty subpar gear setup to begin with, and added 1 IAS and 1 CC. I guess that's why it was a dramatic improvement. Given no loss in aps or cc, it's extremely powerful.

OT- are you the same CraptacularOne from EVGA and XS?
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Hmm, ye I've never heard that brawler is boosted by pickup.
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i've been using this build for a while and it works very well. using warcry-charge instead of rend cuz we need to activate battle rage by using warcry-charge at first. beside ,you will fall in love with brawler if u know how to use it properly. Hota ww and brawler will work perfectly together in this build. watch this video from Chazhang then you will know. peace :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js_fmLHkm6M
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@ EliteSky, no you're not running this build you're running a variant of the WW/HoTA hybrid. The build is another animal entirely. In fact your build would be better off just dropping WC all together for bash/punish or frenzy/maniac. No point in using WC if you're using it just for fury generation.
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Can I ask why not overpower?

Act 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik9KrMQELeI&feature=youtu.be

Act 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqxK5iUITGk&feature=youtu.be
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02/11/2013 04:16 PMPosted by LearnedHand
Hmm, ye I've never heard that brawler is boosted by pickup.


I didn't think so either.
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Ye I saw the other thread you created. Not to beat a dead horse, but it would be nice if brawler were boosted by pickup. It would open up some more variety in its use.
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My experience with 2H WW/HotA build is that you really need killing spree and/or a fury passive to have enough fury to spam everything you want. This means you lose rend, which is a big no-no with a 2H weapon. Maybe with really awesome gear this need for killing spree disappears, but I am not there yet. A fury passive really sucks too, as you lose brawler, which is a phenomenal skill for WW, HotA, and Rend.

The thing I don't like about WW/HotA is you cannot use both together. You basically have 2 separate tools for different situations, but the skills are not so different that you couldn't simply drop one. WW and HotA are both AOE damage skills -- how much AOE HotA does depends on the rune.

The other issue I run in to is disconnects. Adding HotA to WW causes me to click in 'bad areas' that often lead to disconnects. Like, I try to HotA through a doorway while WW is up. This can lead to a disconnect and rubberbanding can be nightmarish.

For 2H WW, I prefer WW/rend/KS because you can use all of them together to maximize AOE dps. Rend can take out elites pretty fast by itself, and if they are elites that will chase you, you can kill them slowly with rend as you continue to progress through the map. Sometime I will just skip the extra health ones that like to hang out in corners. I prefer this to subbing rend or overpower for HotA in my WW build. At high MP, challenging elites are a total waste of time. Trash mobs provide most of the loot.

WW/HotA/KS is really a dual wield spec. WW/rend/KS is the 2H WW spec. Mashing them together like you have, I don't know what you get, but it doesn't work for me at all. WW/Rend/HotA sounds like a SnB spec where you have really high CC, such that you are close to capped when fully buffed, and your attack speed is lowish.

What I have been playing is HotA/Sprint/Rend/Killing spree.
Edited by Jim#1333 on 2/11/2013 6:58 PM PST
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02/11/2013 06:29 PMPosted by Death
@ EliteSky, no you're not running this build you're running a variant of the WW/HoTA hybrid. The build is another animal entirely. In fact your build would be better off just dropping WC all together for bash/punish or frenzy/maniac. No point in using WC if you're using it just for fury generation.

Thx for reply Death:). i think i dont need either frenzy or maniac for fury generation. i dont get any problem with my fury generation with this build and my gears so dont need to waste a slot for it. The main reason im using wc-charge cuz i need fury to cast battle rage first. As you said, i tried to drop down wc for overpower- killing spree i but without wc-charge, i failed to activate my battle rage . the hota is always casted first cuz i got -4 hota reduced ring:(
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yea i tried to switch my soj for another ring and it works now. i can cast battle rage by switching my soj ring and after battle rage is activated, i switch the ring back:)
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Uploaded another vidoe to mainly show that perma-WoTB is possible and actually pretty easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUEavqr-Fzg&feature=youtu.be

Note I edited the 1st post of the thread with that video as well.

@ Wayneold, no OP/Killing Spree simple because with it, there is no room for HoTA.

@ Jim, you hit the nail on the head. This build isn't meant to spam all together but to give you a option for different situations. As I said and said many times in this thread, this isn't for spamming everything at once.
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@ Silverfire, yes I am one and the same from EVGA and XS.

Back on topic: I picked up a cheap -5 Rend belt and found a Mara's amulet with -5 HoTA with 9% CC and will start testing again when the servers go back up.
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Definitely looks like a fun build to try out. Will give it a go in 1.0.7 and share some thoughts.

02/11/2013 06:39 PMPosted by Wayneold
Can I ask why not overpower?


I've never tried OP on a slower build. I've always thought its optimal use was in faster builds that can take advantage of the cooldown reduction on crits. I would hazard a guess that even with Sprint/RLTW, Death's tick rates make HoTA a more effective option in the end.

Anyway, nice work Death, it looks like you're having some fun there.
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