Diablo® III

L.F. Players that think Monk passives are ok

barb has 16 passives (the most of any class) the rest except for monk have 15 i believe while monk has 14, wtb more passives, better dps ones at that.
Edited by Nicfit#1846 on 2/12/2013 3:17 AM PST
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02/12/2013 02:25 AMPosted by Froix
What advantage do you gain over OWE monks?


There are many advantages to gear out OWE... Believe it or not but you do get diversity of builds... I'm thinking of TR, bells builds... You see,this is the problem with OWE, i.e you're stuck with the ccookie cutter builds...
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lol..
you see, the high tier true OWE monks are the best, because we always have both resistances, we can use OWE, and we can also drop OWE. ;)

This gearing out of OWE shenanigan, was the result of the fear of nerf,
that they spoke once upon a time.
I however, have always remained true, to the only perfect passive that we have. ;)

Even if OWE is ever nerfed, the only time I will stop using OWE,
is if they change the Name "One With Everything" to something else. ;D
Edited by LordRaahl#1733 on 2/12/2013 3:50 AM PST
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You cut out the main part of that statement.

..how can you justify replacing OWE with alternative defensive passives? (Pacifism, Sixth Sense,...) What advantage do you gain over OWE monks?


My point is, if you replace OWE passive with one defensive passive, you don't gain anything. As opposed to using Beacon of Ytar, Guiding Light or some other non defensive passive.

Additionally, we're talking about just 1 passive slot here, I can opt out my combo strike if I go for another build. Having OWE in there is not as limiting as you think it is.
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lol..
you see, the high tier true OWE monks are the best, because we always have both resistances, we can use OWE, and we can also drop OWE. ;)

This gearing out of OWE shenanigan, was the result of the fear of nerf,
that they spoke once upon a time.
I however, have always remained true, to the only perfect passive that we have. ;)

Even if OWE is ever nerfed, the only time I will stop using OWE,
is if they change the Name "One With Everything" to something else. ;D


no, not the result of fear of nerf, just a search for diversity. something new. with OWE, i had 1064 all resist. i dropped it and lost nearly 300 AR (profile currently showing my junky bracers.)

this is one of the best things i ever did. this has totally opened me up to different playstyles, passives, which makes me think to use other skills. very exciting times for me!
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i wasnt afraid of a nerf on OWE, i just dont want to be bound by gear to a passive.

Plus, my ultimate ideal of passive have no space for OWE. :)
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OWE = cheapest route to end game monk. This is the ONLY route for many players.

Dropping it does not open up "build diversity" with just one passive slot. One open passive is not build diversity. That is silly.

Does it limit your passive options? Yes, by one. So does any passive you choose. By one. Exactly one.

OWE also opens up gear diversity. You double stack here, you can grab spirit regen there. You can't find the high dex WH you want and can afford? Grab a single resist one instead.

No idea why people argue over this. Use it or don't. It won't be nerfed either way.


exactly one. yes. 33.33% of our passives. a full third. one is a lot when there are only 3. i found it was limiting my gear choices, not opening it up. everything i had had double resist rolls. if i'm going to make the most of my 33.33% of my passives, i had to. now without OWE, i'm free to get p'up radius, or life% or something where i otherwise couldn't.

also, i must say that in losing 300AR by dropping it, i can barely notice the difference at all
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you guys are delusional lol. dropping OWE and settling for some lackluster passive is just that--the lesser of two evils. Don't act like gearing out of OWE is the solution to monk passives PLEASE. We don't need these detached devs thinking passives are ok. we need passives that synergize with our playstyle. we have no crit passives. we have no health globe mechanic passives. we have no robust OFFENSIVE passives. Don't say CS/GL man that's a weak argument. if anyone thinks that gearing out of OWE and using some other shabby, lackluster passive is the answer--thats really reaching.
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02/12/2013 05:37 AMPosted by Fitz
Dropping it does not open up "build diversity" with just one passive slot. One open passive is not build diversity. That is silly.


Are you telling me you're going to run TR with OWE?

02/12/2013 05:50 AMPosted by MrMojoRisin
Does it limit your passive options? Yes, by one. So does any passive you choose. By one. Exactly one


I'm thinking of running Combination strike+Exalted soul+ STI as my 3 passive skills so i can spam MOC+awe on the bells builds... If i run OWE than please tell me which passive skill to drop?

02/12/2013 05:37 AMPosted by Fitz
OWE also opens up gear diversity.


I dont see how it open up your gear diversity by limiting yourself with double resist... Here's an idea, get all resist on your gears and be done with.. You don't need 1000 resist to run high mp levels just around 600 all resist is fine....
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I know there is a lot of talk about OWE in this thread. I have no problems with that. What I wanted to discuss was all passives as a whole and to find people who think monk passives are ok. For me I think some of them are ok but feel many need improvement.


Transcendence though, I'm gonna have to disagree with the OP, this is not so useless. With nearly 50% CC and about an APS of 2 you can easily get 27 spirit per second just from a single target with quickening. That's 1674 life per second, and furthermore life that you can "stock up on" as you store spirit. Great? Perhaps not, but I'd say it's not a completely terrible skill.


I don't think I said Transcendence is useless. I actually think it is a cool idea for a passive. I don't usually use that one but I loved it when I was leveling and think it has it's place.
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All I can tell you is I picked 4 items I told you about. They cost about 32 million, buyout and were on the AH all at the same time. I put them on your character via D3 up and you gained 13% DPS and 9% EHP. I'm not even shopping around. I'm not bidding. I'm just looking at the AH right now.

You should've posted the link. I'm guessing in addition to needing OWE, I might've also had to take Serenity too? Regardless, you actually didn't gain me dps:

original unbuffed dps = 94,953
modified unbuffed dps = 107,297 (13% increase)
buffed dps with CS = 110,145

Thats WITHOUT having to add Serenity to the equation. It gets even worse if we do. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. To further my point, my EHP (I feel) is already high enough for mp10 ubers which is really the extreme in terms of damage spikes generally. If I wanted to play it safe I could take Serenity with my current gear and basically never die, but I like a challenge so I haven't used it for months. Anyways, point is, more ehp (ESPECIALLY with the RD nerf today) isn't really something that I'm actively seeking out at this point (all I want is to maintain roughly the level I'm at atm), and the change you proposed cost me a little under 3k dps. I don't really see a need to nerf myself lol, do you?

I've also mentioned that I would be lying if aesthetics weren't also a part of why I changed gear, this is after all just a game and I'll be damned if I'm going to look at Inna's set every day when I'm playing lol XD So perhaps some day in the future when they finally add dyeing options other than invisible to legendaries and sets, I may be willing to change things up if I can afford to.
Edited by gotaplanstan#1369 on 2/12/2013 8:20 AM PST
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I'm here to say I agree with Fitz.
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02/12/2013 05:37 AMPosted by Fitz
Dropping it does not open up "build diversity" with just one passive slot. One open passive is not build diversity. That is silly.

You're 100% right. But being able to drop it AND Serenity does. 2/9 skills free to choose whatever you want? Yes please.

Passive replacement choices are obviously small in either Beacon of Ytar or Guiding Light. But if you drop Serenity too, then all of a sudden you can get Foresight (18%) and another stack of Combination Strike (8%) which all of a sudden IS meaningful.

And if you run in multimonk groups like many of us do, then dropping OWE frees you up to always bring Guiding Light without anybody in your group (including you) having to give something up to take it.

Or if you're the only monk, then you can take Beacon and spam FitL more. Beacon will become MORE valuable with the snapshot nerf today, because FitL is basically getting nerfed. Beacon will help mitigate the nerf by increasing uptime.
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02/12/2013 08:48 AMPosted by gotaplanstan
Dropping it does not open up "build diversity" with just one passive slot. One open passive is not build diversity. That is silly.

You're 100% right. But being able to drop it AND Serenity does. 2/9 skills free to choose whatever you want? Yes please.

Dropping Serenity has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you use OwE. These are two completely separate things. For example, I am still using OwE, but I have done my last 4 MP 10 uber runs without Serenity. The only time I died was when I had EP on ZK and he died, and the damage from the explosion hit SB and 1 shotted me.

Comparing our buffed stats using different builds makes this a very curious exercise. You can clearly tell that my build was selected to help improve the group's DPS as a whole, while yours is focused on your own DPS.

Thats one of the biggest points. Dropping OWE allows for more build diversity or flexibility. Can you run the exact same skills I normally use (replace FA with BW) on mp10 without dying? I'm guessing no since you use OWE. So while you take that + FIW, I take FS+CS (since nameless or kamel generally run FIW).

I can run a reasonable facsimile of what you run, yes. Can I drop OwE? No. But we're talking about 1 passive difference. If grouped, someone else can run GL. If not grouped, I run MoC/Overawe and we both know that 48 > 16.

02/11/2013 08:11 PMPosted by Piffle
And if you usually use MoH when solo, this changes again. Because I always use MoC.

Haven't used MoC since I dropped OWE. One of the main reasons in doing so, was so I could bring GL without anyone (including myself) having to lose anything self or group beneficial.

Ok, so this even further skews the numbers from yesterday, because I always run MoC. I don't need the extra resist from MoH, I can survive without them because I have 150 more resist than you do.

So now I am at 666k dps and you're only doing 44% of my damage. Meanwhile, our EH is the same.

So you've effectively traded OwE and MoC for Guiding Light and MoH, losing damage and EH on both your gear and your build.

02/11/2013 08:11 PMPosted by Piffle
Finally, I don't know why you keep bringing up how much you've spent on your gear. It's meaningless.

Because apparently its whats keeping people like yourself from making the change. Its the ONLY thing that its really got going for it. Saving money. I couldn't afford to upgrade with OWE, and I can't now without it. I fail to see how having OWE compared to now, would help me in any way.

But it is meaningless to compare MY gear costs to YOUR gear costs because my gear is more expensive than yours simply because it is better. The real point you are trying to convey would be better served by comparing the cost of my gear with the cost of similar gear that uses only AR. Or we could look at your gear and compare it to the cost of similar gear with single resists.

What advantage do you gain over OWE monks?


There are many advantages to gear out OWE... Believe it or not but you do get diversity of builds... I'm thinking of TR, bells builds... You see,this is the problem with OWE, i.e you're stuck with the ccookie cutter builds...

I have not geared out of OwE and I use TR. TR is most effective on MP 0. MP 0 is easy. When I first started doing TR, I had 27k health and 290 AR. I did it successfully then, and I do it even easier now that I am over 40k health and the same amount of AR.

i'm free to get p'up radius, or life% or something where i otherwise couldn't.


You were free to get it before. You didn't HAVE to get double resist on everything.

Double resist on one thing means single or NO RESIST on something else. Single resist that isn't AR means a wider spectrum of gear to choose from.

It does NOT limit gear choice. It EXPANDS it.

This. 100% this.
Edited by Piffle#1874 on 2/12/2013 9:44 AM PST
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I have not geared out of OwE and I use TR. TR is most effective on MP 0. When I first started doing TR, I had 27k health and 290 AR.


You dont need to gear "all resist" on every piece but you need around 5 pieces of armours that have "all resist" which will give you around 350 all resist ( 70 all resist per item)... I'm looking at your current gears and you have around 210 all resist which is low even for Tr builds i.e you need to run OWE....
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02/12/2013 09:56 AMPosted by Fitz
so what's the point you are making?


You still need 5 pieces of armour that have "all resist" and most of OWE players have 1 or 2 pieces of all resist... My point is, you need to gear all resist for the most efficient regarding TR builds...

02/12/2013 09:56 AMPosted by Fitz
StI is limiting your playstyle. Drop it and get more armor on your gear or use a shield. Stop using StI as a crutch. See? It is easy to be a douchebag. Everyone can do it!


Wow dude what type of douchebag wears a shield for Bells build? You need to get out of the cookie cutter builds and explore more options man...

02/12/2013 09:56 AMPosted by Fitz
OWE does not necessitate you get double resists on everything. It opens the door to more varied gear,

Like i said you dont need 1000 resist to play high mp levels... I have around 600 all resist on my gears and still have 3 more pieces of armour that i can upgrade to all resist... ( most of the gears are on my TR monk atm)
Edited by Immortal#6907 on 2/12/2013 10:12 AM PST
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02/12/2013 09:40 AMPosted by Piffle
Dropping Serenity has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you use OwE. These are two completely separate things. For example, I am still using OwE, but I have done my last 4 MP 10 uber runs without Serenity. The only time I died was when I had EP on ZK and he died, and the damage from the explosion hit SB and 1 shotted me.

Actually it does. If you're wasting (yes wasting) item affixes double stacking resists where you could be getting vitality or life % (thus furthering your EHP) you (relatively, not specifically) could drop Serenity too and free up yet another skill slot.

02/12/2013 09:40 AMPosted by Piffle
I can run a reasonable facsimile of what you run, yes. Can I drop OwE? No. But we're talking about 1 passive difference. If grouped, someone else can run GL. If not grouped, I run MoC/Overawe and we both know that 48 > 16.

Thats one passive slot that is either BoY, CS, or GL. All of which provide more dps than OWE does.

Ok, so this even further skews the numbers from yesterday, because I always run MoC. I don't need the extra resist from MoH, I can survive without them because I have 150 more resist than you do.

So now I am at 666k dps and you're only doing 44% of my damage. Meanwhile, our EH is the same.

So you've effectively traded OwE and MoC for Guiding Light and MoH, losing damage and EH on both your gear and your build.

Someone else already runs MOC. I use TON/GL because I got rid of OWE thus making it a net gain for me to run in groups with other monks. I've said repeatedly that I run Overawe when I'm the only monk in a group, but that hasn't happened since I made the switch, save for mp0-3 runs I do with a wizard I know. In other words, irrelevant argument.

02/12/2013 09:40 AMPosted by Piffle
But it is meaningless to compare MY gear costs to YOUR gear costs because my gear is more expensive than yours simply because it is better. The real point you are trying to convey would be better served by comparing the cost of my gear with the cost of similar gear that uses only AR. Or we could look at your gear and compare it to the cost of similar gear with single resists.

Basically what it comes down to, is that you seem to claim it costs 1B for you to make the switch. I showed that using our current builds (well mine from yesterday, I was just playing around last night before I logged, don't mind HoL) the difference buffed is ~35k dps and ~93k ehp. Firstly, I think with the RD nerf we can both agree we've both got enough ehp for mp10, dps is what we're both lacking (me moreso, obviously).

Secondly, I'm confused how you think spending ~900m gold to get ~35k dps is a bad deal? I'm sure if I had that much I could surpass your edps. I'm not sure why you're using FitL for your dps figures either, as snapshotting is getting removed today. We're basically talking buffed pdps here.

As far as my gear, Wrath already tried that with no luck. The fact is (at least at my gear level) that getting defense on items and offense from skills+passives simply works out better.
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