Diablo® III

L.F. Players that think Monk passives are ok

02/12/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Shade
Whats wrong with S/B for bell builds?


Its all about how quickly you can regenerate your spirits so you can spam MOC/bells and also bells builds have high survivability since it have that knock back effects if you're overwhelm with mobs... DW with 2 LS weapons works best because you can regenerate massive health by spam bells...
Edited by Immortal#6907 on 2/12/2013 11:32 AM PST
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Its all about how quickly you can regenerate your spirits so you can spam MOC and also bells builds have high survivability since it have that knock back effects if you're overwhelm with mobs... DW with 2 LS weapons works best because you can regenerate massive health by spam bells...

The only argument here is APS, and that dual wielding gives more.
Your LS argument is actually becoming even less relevant today with the RD nerf.

Furthermore, WoL's proc coefficient is so lackluster that its not even worth mentioning in the same sentence. As how valuable Cyclone sustain is.
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02/12/2013 11:35 AMPosted by gotaplanstan
The only argument here is APS, and that dual wielding gives more


There you go...

Furthermore, WoL's proc coefficient is so lackluster that its not even worth mentioning in the same sentence. As how valuable Cyclone sustain is.


So you have a problem with more sustain?
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I think we have established for bell builds

DW>S/B>Skorn

Basically it all boils down to APS, just insert high DPS weapon into MH for DW.
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02/12/2013 11:37 AMPosted by Immortal
So you have a problem with more sustain?

If its wasted overhealing, yes I do. You only need enough sustain to support your ehp, nothing more.

You still haven't made one decent argument towards using a s&b setup though. As most people using shields already have enough money to get enough IAS to render your APS argument irrelevant.
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You still haven't made one decent argument towards using a s&b setup though.


What's there to argue? DW hits harder ( more dps) and regenerate spirits faster than S/B... I would take a skorn over S/B since it have 6% LS and hit the hardest...
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You never said how much you spent on your gear. You seem to think you would need your gear's value + 1B to do so, so if you give me a figure I'd be more than willing to see what I can do with it.

Because I don't understand what difference it makes what I spent on my gear. All I have talked about is how much it will cost to drop OwE.

I could tell you how much I paid for all my gear, but I know that a lot of it has depreciated. My Nat's boots, for example, were a good price back in the day at 35 million. They aren't worth that much now though. So really, if you want to see the difference in cost today for gearing for OwE and non-OwE, then you would need to look at both sets of gear in the AH.

I have spent ~477 million on my armor, though a large chunk of this is the Witching Hour I just bought a week or two ago (170 million). The next two big spenders for me were my Inna's Chest and Pants (50 and 85 mill, respectively). 64% of the cost on 3 pieces, lol.
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Because I don't understand what difference it makes what I spent on my gear. All I have talked about is how much it will cost to drop OwE.

Cuz you're not gonna keep your old OWE gear once you transition, are you? Silly head XD

02/12/2013 11:51 AMPosted by Piffle
I could tell you how much I paid for all my gear, but I know that a lot of it has depreciated. My Nat's boots, for example, were a good price back in the day at 35 million. They aren't worth that much now though. So really, if you want to see the difference in cost today for gearing for OwE and non-OwE, then you would need to look at both sets of gear in the AH.

Yeah thats true, my helm is a perfect example. I paid 17m for it and that was a good deal, but not as big a deal as it is now with the appreciation someone said in that its worth 40-65m now. I would've guessed it was worth maybe 25-30 when I got it.

02/12/2013 11:51 AMPosted by Piffle
I have spent ~477 million on my armor, though a large chunk of this is the Witching Hour I just bought a week or two ago (170 million). The next two big spenders for me were my Inna's Chest and Pants (50 and 85 mill, respectively). 64% of the cost on 3 pieces, lol.

Yeah I'm the exact same way. I've spent 17m on my head, 18m on my chest, 12m on my reflection, and 18m on my footprints. The rest of the stuff is in the 700k-8m range. And the gems are all self found + upgrading, so saved a little money there except if you count when the duping was going on. But I wasn't playing at the time otherwise I would have 24 more dex lol...So my 4 pieces + gem are like 80% of my value lol.
Edited by gotaplanstan#1369 on 2/12/2013 11:58 AM PST
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I think we have established for bell builds

DW>S/B>Skorn

Basically it all boils down to APS, just insert high DPS weapon into MH for DW.
Wave of Light is more attractive to a 2H. Whatever you can do with a DW you can do MUCH more with a 2H. There are ways of getting around the APS limitation.
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I think we have established for bell builds

DW>S/B>Skorn

Basically it all boils down to APS, just insert high DPS weapon into MH for DW.


Not necessarily, with "the guardian's path" same equipment built around ias and the proper spirit generator you might, and i say might be able to spam more bells, more consistantly then a dw build for higher dps. 2h weapons can roll up to around 1.6k dps with a ruby that 1.8-1.9kish base dps which the bells damage scales off of, not the case with dw which is ~1.3k-ish +320. It all comes down to your base ias taking into consideration same exact builds and the inherent speed bonus of dw, which i haven't tested at this point. I'm sure dw will ultimately win in the end due to the 15% bonus, but not sure what the exact attack speed threshold is. 2h will still or should outdps it burst wise, but thats the point of high dps skills like wave of light to begin with imo.
Edited by Nicfit#1846 on 2/12/2013 12:19 PM PST
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As we are normally a 100% positive community, I completely understand that we all need to vent sometimes.

There is no real reason to listen to me but, I would highly recommend that everyone involved in this thread (me included as I just deleted a rather long post I was going to make here) take a step back, remember that we are all awesome and that sometimes, no matter how right you feel, you will be unable to change another person's perspective. (and there is nothing wrong with that)

-Druin, the happy monk

Certain people don't understand the relative importance of OWE when it comes to monk passives. They are focused on the fact that you can switch out OWE for a DPS passive. With Inferno nerfs and greater AH item selection many players can drop defensive skills and have little trouble with high MP PVE. This isn't the issue. OWE is the strongest mitigation passive that monks have. If monks are switching out OWE for one of the few offensive passives available then where does this put the weaker defensive passives? Nowhere. With the exception of inefficient, trashy Backlash builds the same ignored passives will remain ignored.

OWE is end game defensive mitigation. It is stronger than STI but puts more burden on items. At this point no defensive passives are required but all of them including OWE can be used for budget builds. Interesting to note that this thread itself highlights a problem with monk passives. There is lots of discussion about OWE and STI but where is all the talk about Resolve, Guardian's Path, or Sixth Sense? These are the joke passives that aren't worth putting into skill slots.

Once upon a time, Blizzard promised real changes to the Monk class that went beyond mere number bumps. Seems like we won't get our happy fairy tale ending with this patch.
Edited by Kaho#1895 on 2/12/2013 1:04 PM PST
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Certain people don't understand the relative importance of OWE when it comes to monk passives. They are focused on the fact that you can switch out OWE for a DPS passive. With Inferno nerfs and greater AH item selection many players can drop defensive skills and have little trouble with high MP PVE. This isn't the issue. OWE is the strongest mitigation passive that monks have. If monks are switching out OWE for one of the few offensive passives available then where does this put the weaker defensive passives? Nowhere. With the exception of inefficient, trashy Backlash builds the same ignored passives will remain ignored.

OWE is end game defensive mitigation. It is stronger than STI but puts more burden on items. At this point no defensive passives are required but all of them including OWE can be used for budget builds. Interesting to note that this thread itself highlights a problem with monk passives. There is lots of discussion about OWE and STI but where is all the talk about Resolve, Guardian's Path, or Sixth Sense? These are the joke passives that aren't worth putting into skill slots.

Once upon a time, Blizzard promised real changes to the Monk class that went beyond mere number bumps. Seems like we won't get our happy fairy tale ending with this patch.

All great points. I especially agree with the lacklusterness of Resolve, TGP, and SS and them needing changes far before any other STI or OWE changes.

And as fate would have it, I'm here today 100% eating my words as I'm already in the process of transitioning from not using OWE, back to using it LOL...partly thanks to Piffle and partly thanks to the rng gods playing the sickest joke of all on me...

Anyways thanks everybody, especially you Piffle, for the thought provoking dialogue we've had in this thread so far.
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