Diablo® III

Inferno was fun once

02/10/2013 10:44 AMPosted by Jkan
Pffft. More whining. Try hardcore and then talk about how easy this game is.


challenging and dying to lag is 2 different things
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02/10/2013 10:41 AMPosted by Azurewrath
I can farm mp 10, but theres no point, time vs reward is not high enough.
Exactly, so indeed your toon is still not good enough for MP10.
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I totally agree about the ladder system, and they should also make items that only drop on ladder ( like runewords in d2) So the economy keeps rolling and they keep a close watch on ladder players so they ban bots and stuff like that.... wow that would be awsome
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Hardcore would be fun if it wasn't for one thing. "Lag". Well for me anyways, It'll go perfectly fine and then the big screen lock for up to 30 seconds. Most of the time I'm dead after that. I have an over powered machine for diablo 3 and internet speed is fine. Play PoE for example is super smooth and barely any lag at all probably cause there isn't many players on it.

02/10/2013 10:36 AMPosted by MAGICWOOD
So you're saying you can plow through mp10?


For myself I'm not plowing through MP10 but can play it with my Witch Doc and not die much. Usually it's for doing something stupid or jailed and frozen on a desecrater for too long. Some elite packs though you end up standing there for a while depending on how much ubber life they have.

Unfortunately any DPS improvement stuff I want is out of range in the GAH. At lest at the moment. No way I'm paying real money for the stuff either so I'll be stuck here for a while. lol
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I wish I could copy my toons into pre-nerf and try them out. I'm really curious if we'd actually faceroll everything.
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Monster Power fixes the complaints with Inferno difficulty though?
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It's sort hard to compare really.. I would say monster power 10 is less damage, reduced affixes and more life. With the gear I have now compared to then it's a hell of a lot better.. thinking about it. Would have to go through all the release notes and see what was nerfed and how much to figure.
Edited by Shockwave#1233 on 2/10/2013 1:47 PM PST
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02/10/2013 08:33 AMPosted by PATAYtyoDyan
anyway, i remember them saying they did that because they never intended the difference in difficulty per act that huge. you literally hit a wall after every act.

Here is an archived thread with Bashiok's post about how Inferno was originally not supposed to have the spiky difficulty that it ended up shipping with.

http://blues.incgamers.com/Posts/1/1/4/10/110647/bash-end-game-philosophy

Given that the difficulty (end game content) wasn't tested very well outside of Blizzard, it showed when it came to drops (both quality and quantity) which slowed the progression a bit too much (except for those making clever use of game mechanics early in the game like the invulnerable wizard glitch, to farm Act III before the exploit became more widely known over a month later in July).

Like many, I also hit the wall at Act II even against the trash mobs. At the start, I was sporting around 13k damage and 4k armor. I managed to get myself to around 24k and used a life regen teleport/illusionist/venom hydra build on my wizard. Act II was an absolute pain to progress through on my wizard (my monk on the otherhand handled the transition far easier). Cave of the Betrayer was the worst with its elite spiderlings and vile swarms that often times had the fast/teleporter affix attached to them. The only thing I was against was the inclusion of the enrage times on elite mobs because often times, I was able to kite and burn them down, but then ran up against their enrage timers (the gear check was just too much of an MMORPG mechanic). And while I could disengage, by the time the debuff reset, they had again regenerated back to full health.

Rather than try to balance things out via a combination of buffing character skills, increasing the quantity and quality level of drops by nominal amounts, tempering the speed of a mobs life regen capabilities, and modifying the damage/health of mobs by smaller percentages in order to flatten out the difficulty curve between acts, we had to endure nerfs (attack speed, skills, complete removal of mobs health regen) and also an over nerf of Inferno from 1.0.3-1.0.5. It's like the Act III Keywarden; some of us just wanted its abilities to be tempered for Normal-Hell (because it was way out of line with the content and presented a progression obstacle especially for those leveling in hardcore) but it instead ended up being neutered in Inferno.

IMHO, Inferno Difficulty should've actually been presented as a completely optional thing sort of like how one has to purposely select Hardcore instead of dumping the player into it after completing Hell. This compelled players to play it since the highest achievements were also tied to the difficulty. It's the rationale they used for the Monster Power system (no separate achievements since they did not want to make it feel mandatory). Had they used a similar design where Inferno was this completely separate challenge, it likely would not have needed to see the level of neutering it has gone through, and a portion of the player base looking for a challenge would probably even to this day, have that sort of challenging content to keep them busy.

I would actually propose that Blizzard consider doing just this for those looking for challenging content to tackle (Monster Power is not the same as the old Inferno difficulty). The main purpose of such a mode would be mainly for challenge, not to farm items (that would still be relegated to Inferno). Create a separate completely optional mode that becomes unlocked for anyone who has completed Inferno called Insanity which brings back most of the old difficulty and mechanics of Inferno with an even higher difficulty spike across all acts (there would be no monster power in this mode) in terms of mob damage/health and abilities (like the inclusion of a 5th affix). Any achievements (for achievement chasers) would be in its own separate tab like Hardcore.

The only reason I'm still playing right now is because of Hardcore since it is about the only challenging/rewarding (where part of my definition of rewarding is the journey of staying alive) part left in the game for me (I can't see myself grinding for Paragon levels but I give lots of credit to those who do). There's an actual item sink (due to continual player death) and because there aren't as much players farming Inferno, there is a noticeable rarity of higher end/BiS gear. The fact that death from disconnects/lag are also an issue (until Blizzard decides to look at their server side disconnect detection system), means that it's a somewhat stupid challenge that one has to potentially contend with outside of the actual content.

I myself haven't encountered or died to that yet but I do realize the potential of that happening. I also know there are folks who don't have stable network connectivity and therefore, HC is not a viable option unless they enjoy constantly dying from things outside their control. But considering how many new HC players there have been recently, it is all too common to see many of them biting the dust from their own mistakes before completing normal. In other words, the challenge of hitting level 60 is still real as is getting through Inferno.
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I miss the Inferno boss... when they were actually really hard.

I'm talking about bosses like Belial.. not gimmick Izual.
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It really wasn't that hard, we just all had atrociously bad gear. I started Inferno with 7k DPS and beat it with only about 18k.

The problem wasn't the difficulty going from act 1 inferno to act 2 and so forth, it was going from hell to inferno. The other 3 difficulties were stupidly easy and it made everyone think inferno was too hard.

As for making a "new" mode called Insanity or something, it will never fly with Blizzard's current mentality. If they make a new hard mode, it will HAVE to have better gear in order to progress through it. Then all the terribads will cry because they can't get the best gear anymore by running mindlessly easy content. It will get nerfed and we repeat the cycle.
Edited by Zoid#1297 on 2/10/2013 1:52 PM PST
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For MP10 They should bring back those affixes they took out in pre-nerf. Don't shoot me for saying this but maybe enrage timers could come back in a different form. The life drain doesn't really work for any other toon other than a barb/monk with huge life steal. Make elites get more aggressive, cast more affixes with less cooldown. Change Zulton's insta-death to something more aggressive.
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im glad more people feel the way i do
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To everyone saying to play hardcore...

Some of us can't due to unstable internet connections. There's nothing we can do, and there's no use dying every 50-100 hours for reasons completely beyond your control.

You guys are out of your minds. Inferno was never challenging, it was cheap as hell. Farming Act1 for a few weeks to 'properly gear up' for the next Act? Are you insane? I farmed for *HUNDREDS* of hours, and not a damn thing worth spit ever dropped for me. Never saw a set item, not once, until very recently.


I'm guessing you didn't farm very efficiently then... and that you didn't play much on release if you think the content wasn't hard and that sets were hard to find. Before they nerfed destructables, I probably got a dozen legendaries/sets from those alone without even farming specifically for them. Problem was, who gave a crap if you found one? They were garbage.

As far as the 'hard' content went, it wasn't hard in a good way... but it was hard nonetheless. Those heralds of pestilance did absolutely absurd damage, soul lashers were bugged and did 3x normal damage, elite collosal golgors would one-shot tanky characters, and playing in a 4player group was suicidal. However, it was hard, you can't deny that.

As for end-game content, MP's were certainly a step in the right direction. However, it would be nice if we could have some challenge. Something with a scoreboard, something that you could keep working on, and get recognition for. The developers wanted this to be a pve focused game, and that they didn't want competitive pvp. I'm ok with this, but why don't they put something in the game for competitive pve? WoW-style challenge modes, Team defence against waves of increasing strength enemies, last-man-standing, ANYTHING like this would make the end-game so much more interesting.
Edited by Atomize#1137 on 2/10/2013 2:22 PM PST
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I probably got a dozen legendaries/sets from those alone without even farming specifically for them. Problem was, who gave a crap if you found one? They were garbage.


Yup! The legendary buffs were needed. I can't believe they sold for so much back then when most of my rares were better. lol
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02/10/2013 10:02 AMPosted by Azurewrath
lol i love that you assume i have only used a ww barb, and that i havent stripd fully geared wizzes,wds,monks and a dh, u dont get sick of 1 type of char?

You're missing my point. It doesn't matter which class you play. There is literally zero skill difference between the top 20 percent of players and the top 1 percent. The only difference is the quality of gear they found. Why do you want to return to an Inferno that punishes bad luck?

02/10/2013 10:51 AMPosted by Azurewrath
Pffft. More whining. Try hardcore and then talk about how easy this game is.


challenging and dying to lag is 2 different things

And on softcore, challenging and sitting on my !@# for 200 hours waiting for a valuable item to drop are two different things.
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02/10/2013 04:14 PMPosted by Jolly
lol i love that you assume i have only used a ww barb, and that i havent stripd fully geared wizzes,wds,monks and a dh, u dont get sick of 1 type of char?

You're missing my point. It doesn't matter which class you play. There is literally zero skill difference between the top 20 percent of players and the top 1 percent. The only difference is the quality of gear they found. Why do you want to return to an Inferno that punishes bad luck?



challenging and dying to lag is 2 different things

And on softcore, challenging and sitting on my !@# for 200 hours waiting for a valuable item to drop are two different things.


u still dont understand, inferno was ment for people who wanted the challenge, who wanted to have something to strive for......and 2 many people rushed into it without properly farming hell to get better drops, i bet u if u spend some time grinding in hell and where more prepared to enter into inferno people wouldnt have had such a hard time.

and how are ur drops now????
judging buy your characters, even with the easyness of the current inferno, and the drop rates og good to descent items, your characters should be alot better.
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http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbmw5bHkoL1qbcwf7o1_400.jpg
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I guess the people complaining that Inferno is to easy now probably already kill everything on MP10 ... oh well. I guess you guys have beat the game then!
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u still dont understand, inferno was ment for people who wanted the challenge, who wanted to have something to strive for......and 2 many people rushed into it without properly farming hell to get better drops, i bet u if u spend some time grinding in hell and where more prepared to enter into inferno people wouldnt have had such a hard time.

No, you still don't understand. Old Inferno wasn't a challenge; it was a gear check.

and how are ur drops now????
judging buy your characters, even with the easyness of the current inferno, and the drop rates og good to descent items, your characters should be alot better.

How are my drops? Uncorrelated with my skill level. Exactly the same quality for me as for every other player with maximized move speed.
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