Diablo® III

Hybrid Fire Thorns Fetish Build

Thx U JangBahadur for the name and HFTF Build. This is also my first time trying to post a build so sorry if my format is not that good or other stuff is off.

Plz let me know and I will fix. This is a learning thing for me. I have loved Diablo from the start but this is my first time posting a build on a form. This is a build I have had much fun with and would love to share it for the hope that others find it as much fun as I have.

Solo Build mp 1-3: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#ScYdUT!egV!YYbccZ

The thing you need to know is the base of this build is a Thorns Doc build. Base is FL passive with Dogs and Gar.

Solo/group Build all mp: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#ScYjUT!egV!aYbYcZ

Group Ubers all mp: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#ScYQUT!egV!YcbbcZ

Things you need to know about the build links to info.
1.) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6413023267 Thorns info.
2.) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004045226 Pets info.
3.) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415156988 Some fire/Fetish info.

I add this links as there info contans all primary aspects of this build. Pets/Thorns/Fire/Fetish Sycophants.

This build is very flexable. So things I would wish to impart my knowlage of is the passives are 2/3 fixed. But skills and runes are not. Only a few skills are fixed and only some of the runes are fixed so as to be fire based.

Fixed Skills are

1.) Dogs and Gar. This is a pet/thorns build must have.
2.) Fire Bats. Best fire mana dumb we have no matter the rune. Personly I feel that Dire bat is the worst rune though.

Fixed Passives are
1.) FL needed for pets to pass on Life reg and Thorns. Fetish do get this bounces.
2.) Fetish Sycophants This is a main passive and totaly changes this build with out it.

The one other passive that is change able to your likeing.

Personly the best 3rd passive I have used is Spirit Vessel. But other good passives have been JF and/or BM. I have used BM for group play when no CMWW Wizard was availbe. Changing the Dogs&Gar to Poision is best for BM. JF was do to gear for MP level.

Other good passives depending on gear are BR/VQ/SA for better mana reg. That's in the order I found them most usefull to overall build BR for added reg works best for pets. VQ works best overall for pure mana reg. SA for longer time before going omm. Pepper to flavor.

Skills and Runes.

Things to note about all Bats and there Runes.Update:MCP/Wachati Credit is do.

1.) Bats is a channeling spell. That mean's not only are you rooted in place when casting but that it do's it's dmg in 2 tics per attack. This do's two things first it splites your dmg the 350% in two 175% for two bats each attack. So if you think it's not doing it's listed dmg it is.

2.) Second it gives you twich as many Fetish from Fetish Sycophants.

Things to note on Hugery Bats.

1.) They work alot like Well of Souls. Auto targeting with in 30ish yards. Can fire around corners and over walls but not though walls. Can be manuly targeted with in full screen. I play high Res so I get a full 40ish+ yards on screen and I can hit anything on screen and even follow them for like 5-10ish yards off screen but that mite be becouse I fired before they left screen but will track and hit after they left screen. Will never miss target once locked on.

2.) Can be all but perma casted with right gear. But I dont personly feel you need to go for perma casting with Hugery Bats. Save that for group Cloud of Bats.

Things to note on Cloud of Bats.

(Note: Perma is used very losely here. Target 100secs of spam)

1.) Cloud of Bats is a great skill with gear set up for Ubers. You can set yourself up to perma cast. Bears can not. Works best when working with a good CMWW perma frez Wiz. As you will only brake your 5 sec build up when Slam Dance. Slam Dance is also the only time you will go omm. More then made up for with the dps you get from your party though.

(Note: Skorn is not the only weapon just used it becouse it's well knowen.)

You want to get a two handed weapon. Skorn is great as you can stack bleads they add up with a good Skorn fast even at high mp. So long as its an Uber fight. As close to 1 sec att speed is what your shooting for here. You want to hit perma spam of Cloud of Bats.

Now if your looking at the dmg from Cloud of Bats and Bears your going Bears wins right. But thats not true on prolonged fights like Ubers. Bears cant perma but Cloud can. Also most Bear builds are not going to be spewing forth an army of Fetish were each one is doing 20% of your dmg each.

Now I put 1 sec as base but the faster you can perma the better your overall dps and the more fetish you will spew out. Now this is the part that gets tricky becouse perma is not needed or realy wanted.

It is better to use a faster two hand or even 1 hand weapon if you can last the full 100 secs between Slam Dance with the use of a mana reg passive. Depending on gear but I have found SA to normaly be the best for reaching longer peridods of time before going omm as best followed by BR. The reason VQ is not though in here is becouse you could set it off at the end of Slam dance but it only last 5 sec. But BR/SA will help the full 100 sec your trying to cover and not just the first 5.

Use Slam Dance to recover your mana. The dps lost is more then made up for from the dps your helping your party+pets+fetish+pyrogeist put out.

Things to note on Primary fire skills.

1.) You dont want this to be the skill your spaming most. Not even Flaming Dart.
2.) This skills should be used to supplement your main nukes dmg i.e Hungery Bats.
3.) Or need a cheap mana but effective fire aoe.

So not spaming and cheap mana fire aoe rules out three fire ablitys.
1.) Flaming Darts. Cheap good single target dmg but its not supplemental and its not aoe.
2.) Blazing Spiders same as Flaming Darts.
3.) Explosive Beast. Its good fire aoe but it's not mana cheap.

So what do's that leave.
1.) Searing Locusts. This is not cheap but you dont have to cast it much for it to spread and it's not bad dmg/mana. But I think we can do better.
2.) Flash Fire. This is cheap great fire aoe. Your not going to find a better dps/mana fire aoe. This is your best pick if your having problems with large packs of mobs.
3.) Pyrogeist. This is a fire and forget single target but it do's a fair amount of dmg per hit and fires fast. It go's even faster if you build around IAS. Good supplemental dps for groups of mobs and single targets. Works realy well with the mana reg passive VQ. Don't forget IAS is not ruled out of this build other then group cloud build. You dont need to be perma-Hungery nore should you be. If you are you need more IAS.

Dogs This is going to be simple.

Rabid=Greatest single target dps and proc rate
Burning=Greatest aoe dps and proc rate. Also aoe helps them easly grab argo and hold it better vers larger numbers of mobs.
Life Link=Best Def
Leaching Beasts=This are good for life return though high amounts of Thorns. 10k Thorns returns 1k health. 10% in Inferno. The dmg the dogs do them selfs is not much for returns but 10k+Thorns works well.
Final Gift just do's not work realy well with this build.

Gar. Simple same as dogs.

Humongoid=Great white mob destoryer.
Restless Giant=Great Elite/Boss/Huge mob destoryer when cooldown is up. Can reset cooldown with Resummon.
Big Stinker=Best large mob tank. Same as Burning dogs aoe helps grab and hold large number of mobs and works well with BM. Side note: Poison cloud dmg works with LS.
Bruisher=Runs a close second with Restless Giant for Elite/Boss fights for added stuns.But over all dead Elite/Boss is better then a stuned one.
Wrathfull=Wasted rune.

Spirit Walk

Not much to note here. Other then I found Healing Journy to work best for me.

Last skill slot.Mass Confusion/Soul Harvest

This slot is open for what ever you find best to use. I have also used Freighting Aspect for tougher pets and Hex/Jinx for easy Elites.

Then main reason I even use Mass Confusion is when ever I am using a Last Breath weapon the reduction in cooldown do's it for me. I never felt that MC was a bad skill just that the cooldown was a bit to long.

Stats part.

I'm not going to list gear. What I'm going to do in it's place is list the stats that I found work best as core stats.

Def top 3 to look for.
1.) Vit
2.) Life Reg.
3.) Thorns this is more very vital to the build then most people think. It lets your pets hold argo when you start up your dps. Need to find the right mix of Thorns verse Dps for your gear/build.

Your normal Def stats of Armor/Str/Dex all good and will come in time with gear. But things to remeabeer is your pets tank alot better then you do and your main job in this build is to stay at range and dps. That's why MC/FA/ is better then SH for this build.

Also personl opion on Dex is it is as good as it is bad no hit on pet no thorns see. But right around 500 dex is good to have more then 1000 is a total waist of stats. But it is a good stat nothing to go out of your way for but dont go over 1000 and try to keep it at or around 500 if you can. Less then not a problem ether though pets will not last as long on higher mp's.

DPS top 4
1.) Int
2.)Avg Dmg
3.) IAS
4.)Crit Hit/Crit DMG balance in a 1/10 ratio.

You wont see 2 and 3 on your dps sheet right hell you wont see most of your dps from most classes and specs right on you sheet but more so for a Pet Doc.

Your IAS inc your pets attacks as well as pet aoe's like Burning/Big Stinker. Or Spells like Pyrogeist. Braking points I dont know thoughs sorry.

Also you will need IAS to quickly mana dump Hungery Bats when you get your Zunimass's 4 piece set bounces.

This is a good thing it lets you max dps and moving out of harms way. IAS also inc your pets ablity to hold argo and do dmg.

My own stat goals have not been gained as of yet but they are.

60k hp
20k Thorns
3k Life Reg.
500-1000 Life on Hit
2k+ Int
20% crit
200% crit dmg
100k+ sheet dps
2.0 ASP
10k+ Health globes/potions.

Don't know if I cant ever get it but that's what I'm shooting for.

Iteams I'm not going to do this is already to long for most people.

Thx you all. And plz let me know what I missed and how to better format this info.
Edited by Umbra#1460 on 2/18/2013 11:19 PM PST
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How about the HFTF build? the Hybrid Fire Thorns Fetish build.

The build itself sounds fun but I don't see myself playing it until they fix thorns and fetishes!
Edited by JangBahadur#1968 on 2/11/2013 8:09 PM PST
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How about the HFTF build? the Hybrid Fire Thorns Fetish build.

The build itself sounds fun but I don't see myself playing it until they fix thorns and fetishes!


Thorns I understand. I use it primaly as a means to hold argo on pets.

Fetishes I dont get peoples hate on them.

They are not perma pets there temp. They only die realy fast at the same time my normal pets are too do to aoe dot afixes all stacked up normaly when I get unlucky and draw 2-3 elite mobs at once with aoe affixes.

And even then there normaly still helping out as there respawning at a much faster rate then I can resummon normal pets.

Granted I would love for them to get aoe Imunity or force armor though and pushing for more then just the dager kind for randomness would be totaly awsome too.

Edit: Think of Fetishs as 20% free dmg with the possablity of some times tanking and buying you free time/room to cast your spells and I think it would feel like a much better passive to people.

Double Edit: I do get peoples hate of the Skill Fetish Army. It's a totaly waist of a skill slot no matter the rune. And I think that's what colors peoples veiw of Fetish Sycophants.
Edited by Umbra#1460 on 2/11/2013 8:47 PM PST
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I tried Fetish Sycophants around Mp 5 and lower they are awesome but they die way too fast at higher MP. You know the mp levels where having more distraction would come in handy. the mp levels where we NEED them. Even regular pets die pretty fast in higher MP and fetish sycophant could save the day and take some load off of the pets but they dont have force armour.

Agreed, pets should have some resistance against AOE damage. I mean I have like 900AR and my pets are pretty fragile on molten.
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I tried Fetish Sycophants around Mp 5 and lower they are awesome but they die way too fast at higher MP. You know the mp levels where having more distraction would come in handy. the mp levels where we NEED them. Even regular pets die pretty fast in higher MP and fetish sycophant could save the day and take some load off of the pets but they dont have force armour.

Agreed, pets should have some resistance against AOE damage. I mean I have like 900AR and my pets are pretty fragile on molten.


It's your HP levels and armor your ar is awsome though.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415156988

I did testing with other WD's do to lack of gear on Higher MP's. FL will aid all pets and Fetish to live longer but aoe is what it is. But pets can tank higher mp's. It's a matter of HP's and armor or having a CMWW Frez Wiz in party.

But normaly the Fetishes will live only alittle shorter about 1-2 secs less then Dogs. But taking even one hit and dishing out one hit that is one hit your normal pets or yourself did not take and it's still one hit of 20% free dmg.

The fetishes will help your pets some times stunlock a Single elite if you have 5 or more built up before hand.

You can and will notice a huge differnts if you run nothing but pet/tank builds. It's a huge pluse to Pet tank builds. As it adds both tanking and dps in one passive.

Edit: It's not something I would recomend to normal Bear/Dog builds. As Dog builds have the IAS but are not normaly firing off the needed spells and Bears is but they get more bang for there buck using the mana reg skills and normaly are not going for IAS. This is an IAS built passive.
Edited by Umbra#1460 on 2/11/2013 9:13 PM PST
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I play a Proctor now because my pets couldn't tank higher Mp. Now I can solo MP10 just fine. Though it's way too slow.

You think it my HP. How much HP should I aim for to have my reg pets tank higher MP without me stun-locking everything?
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I might try the Hybrid Fire Fetish part of your build sometime.
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Yes Dogs have 10k base hp's at level 60 and gain only 35% of your hp's.
Gar has 30k base hps at level 60 and gains 50% of your hp's

It feels like Fetish run under the Dogs with 10k base hp's at level 60 and 35% of your hp's min's the force armor.

They do feel like they gain the 10% aoe dmg reducion. But with no force armor that is probly why they die a few sec's before dogs in heavy aoe elites.

Think of your Dogs as base. You dont want to have to resummon them more then once per elite pack and you never should have to resummon Gar. That gives you some room for when you pull the unlucky 2 Elite pack.

So if your sitting right around 30k hp and happy your Dogs are siting around 20.5-22k hp and taking it in the face. Same with Fetish only they dont get force armor and nether are getting life reg your not supporting your pets.

No FL no pet support means very temp shields at higher mps.

You do need to go out of your way to help your pets. i.e. Why I say MC and FA are better then SH. It lets you run up right behind your line and help control the flow of battle.

And Fetish are right about were dogs are with out Force Armor. But thats ok. There even more temp then dogs. Dogs only need to last 45 secs and Fetish help them do that.
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lol who said bears cant perma zzzz -10 z/b soj / zuni set bonus / windowmaker spiders with vision quest passive + blood ritual / zuni mojo-12 z/b with 14 mana regen?
Edited by TheZuniBarb#6283 on 2/12/2013 12:38 AM PST
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02/12/2013 12:37 AMPosted by TheZuniBarb
lol who said bears cant perma zzzz -10 z/b soj / zuni set bonus / windowmaker spiders with vision quest passive + blood ritual / zuni mojo-12 z/b with 14 mana regen?


This is true though perma was used losely as you are here. Thoughing out a spider every 5 sec is not something you realy want to do with Cloud of Bats. Cloud of Bats has a 5sec build-up to gain full dmg.

It how ever do's not bother Bears one little bit and helps much. Same can be said for the full mana passives that bears use. I do not recomend Bear builds to use Fetish Sycophants.

It do's how ever add a mega ton of dps to the Cloud of Bats build on a CMWW perma Frez fight.
Edited by Umbra#1460 on 2/12/2013 9:53 AM PST
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My profile was updated at the time of this post:
With a visage with -9 firebats, a soj with -10 firebats, blood ritual, and SA, I was at near infinite casting, that is after 60 seconds I was barely denting my mana pool (say 80% full, hard to tell because it refills nearly instantly). One can imagine how easy it would be to refill with honored guest from time to time.

I was testing on MP7 ghom for fun and tried hungry bats, plague bats, and cloud of bats. Stacking Ghom's poison clouds helps determine if you're returned life per second is adequate over a prolonged battle, helps me find good skill combos, and thus potentially good mana management, for longer battles at the high MPs.

I'll have to do more extensive testing, but both plague bats and cloud of bats returned more life per second (and did more DPS), but obviously keeps a player close to the danger. Hungry bats was good though, just required more acid rains and thus I had a lower mana pool and had to move out of the poison clouds more often.
Might have to combine with VQ + RoT instead of SA to get it working.

Spirit Barrage plus RoE once again shows me how much better it is though. The build up of temporary mana regen is really significant, especially when one needs acid rain to refill HP; stacking of Ghom's poison clouds test this.
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MCP

Your totaly right on all accounts.

Hungery Bats I use for Strifing. Fire till dmg starts coming my way then move. Repeat. That's why the more Thorns you have the longer your pets hold argo and the more IAS the faster you can dumb your mana into it and the more Fetish end up runing around too. This is not a speed build it's a let the freaking pets tank build. So controling your dps and managing the fight and moving around is part of the build.

I barrowed gear from friends of my to expariment. I had around 100k sheet dps and 2.13 weapon speed when testing. You realy dont what to be Perma casting out side of the plague or cloud for group fights that's why I put cloud into the group build but use Hungery for solo work.

And I also feel it's more then fair that Plague and Cloud return more health and do more dmg do to there range limitations. Hungery Bats you should stay back let the pets take argo and move out of aoe dmg. That compensats for the lower Life return on attacks and as a dedicated pet build you should have 2k+ Life reg. The worst healing stat is the best for Thorns builds. And Geting PUR and +Health Globes helps your pets alot. It lets you strife the out side of the fight and pick up health globes to keep your pets up. This are the only to ways in witch to heal pets.

Also Plague and cloud dont go over walls or around corners

Also If you take a look at my profile you will see I'm test a new build one that's more Mana friendly.

So it's funny you bring up Spirit Barrage.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#ZgYdUT!gef!cZbcbc

and this one also

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#cgYdUT!gef!cZbcbc

With the first one I fire off Rain of Corps on my way into the pack get into the pack and VS+Umbral Shock and run out. Massive aoe dmg.

With the second one just run into the pack and VS+Umbral Shock and start Cloud up. Spirit Walk lets you get 2 secs into Cloud and when that ends you get some nice burst from Umbral Shock.

I'm favoring the first one less chance of death. But you can now get hit by a pack and it will not stop your channeling of Cloud of Bats.

So someone that has alot me eHP them me mite realy have alot of fun with the second one.
Edited by Umbra#1460 on 2/13/2013 8:07 PM PST
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After trying again,
It's too bad, but compared to WoS and Bears, bats suck :\.
WoS was fixed, but I'm finding hungry bats to be very annoying. I target an enemy and it attacks random enemies within range. Let's say there is a summoner unit I want to kill first, at least WoS will hit it with the main high damage attack.

Bats are cheaper mana/second though compared to bears, when using cloud or plague.

It's too bad, I like bats, and I will use them from time to time. I hope they improve them in the future.
Edited by MCP#1477 on 2/13/2013 11:15 PM PST
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MCP

You can keep Hungery Bats on Target by keeping your mouse over the center of your target and clicking like crazy.

If you do hold the button down it will randomly go back to auto targeting what ever mob/destoryable object is closest to you in the direction you are pointing and your Primay target much like WoS.

I strongly think someone got lazy and cut pasted the coding from WoS onto Hungery Bats.

I dont think any other skill puts out as much Burst dmg as bears but mybe Sacirifce. So no disargement there.

How ever I do feel WoS is better then Hungery Bats but mainly becouse of the passive RoE.

I do have good results with Hungery Bats when teamed up with the passives FL&Fetish Sycophants with the right gear. Mainly Thorns tanking gear.

By the time I go omm there are 3-5 Fetish running around tanking and doing dmg. Then I'm firing off Crowed Control and Primary spells. All Primary spells keeps pulling out more Fetish.

Hungery Bats would not even compary to WoS if WoS worked with Fetish Sycophants.

On the other hand if Hungery Bats worked with RoE it would be crazy too.
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Here is the build I’ve been using to clear Mp8 with

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#ScUjYT!Vgc!cYZYcc

Bears is a faster and more efficient clear for sure but its far less entertaining than to watch your fetishes swarm the battle field and help tie up mobs.
I must say this is one of the more interesting builds I have seen and a lot of fun, unfortunately gearing for it has been both easy and difficult-
It’s easy to get quality pieces for cheap, not many witchdoctor presently gear like this, but it also means that ideal pieces are rarely on the AH so in order to get pieces to support the build I had to compromise on a few things.

My vitality is lower than I would like but it’s been high enough with my eHP, life regeneration and leeching beasts that I can clear comfortably even at MPs higher than I thought this build could go.
I would like to get a Zunimasa’s offhand with ideal stats (400+ dmg, life regen/physical damage to attacker and crit 10) I think that would help alleviate some of the mana problems I have had using hungry bats. Aside from wanting to trigger Zunimas’s 4 piece all I would really like from this point on gearwise is more of the same (crit/crit dmg, more int and vitality)


Things I have noticed about this build:
After about mp6 thorns became less important than Health per second and I finally ended up switching to blood ritual to get even more health return and I dropped pieces that had thorns in favor of pieces that had typical dps stats (crit/crit dmg int and vitality)

The recent changes to rubies have made them the Ideal thing to socket, it makes sense, our pets benefit more from increased weapon damage than increased crit damage and the ruby I am using seem to have made my fetishes hit considerably harder than they were

I wonder if blizzard will eventually end up buffing thorns to be a stat other than a threat generator, if they do a build/gear set like this may be very very good in the future but great job on coming up with an awesome witchdoctor build Umbra
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Np :)

Copy past from Dev Answers about Thorns.

The Topaz, on the other hand, is a different story. No -- the damage from the Topaz is not competitive in comparison to other gems. Thorns damage in general is underpowered in the game and we're looking to correct that n the future. While we're discussing a number of ways to do this, the favored idea internally is to allow Thorns to benefit from your primary stat (Strength, Dexterity, or Intelligence). So if you have, say, 2000 Intelligence as a Wizard or Witch Doctor, then your Thorns items will do +2000% damage, much like your weapon damage. This is, of course, a huge buff to the Thorns property and there is no specific timeline on when we're going to make such a change.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7895009644 This is the Dev answers it's all the way down in the Gem answers.

I play 100% FL/Thorns build. You can proble tell by my gear so I totaly get what your saying. Life Reg and thorns are not wanted by normal builds or players. But that's what makes this build work on higher levels.

Tip if your going to use Leeching Beast over Life Link more thorns the better for returned health. Lower levels of thorns you will do better with Life Link. Just play with it and you will find what's working best for your gears. Also Life on hit works with Poison Dogs/Gar and Fire Dogs.

I totaly want your Last Breath it's way awsome for this build. :)

I'm glad you had fun with it :)
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Life on hit doesn't work with Garg, not even the poison cloud. For some reason life steal does work with the Garg's poison cloud with FL (not very much damage so hardly noticeable)...

LoH works with rabid dogs (10%/attack) and burning dogs aura (5%/tick).

With a lot of thorns and FL, leaching beasts are life return machines.
Edited by MCP#1477 on 2/15/2013 2:04 PM PST
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Conformed. LS not LoH for Garg's poison cloud. Will fix thx you MCP.

Ya I'm just geting to the point that Leaching beast mite be better for me. :)
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After trying again,
It's too bad, but compared to WoS and Bears, bats suck :\.
WoS was fixed, but I'm finding hungry bats to be very annoying. I target an enemy and it attacks random enemies within range. Let's say there is a summoner unit I want to kill first, at least WoS will hit it with the main high damage attack.


I'm there with ya. What I noticed was Well of Souls was doing far more damage than Hungry bats looking at the damage ticks. WoS was up around 500K crits and bats down at 200K. I'm not sure why exactly except WoS does a base of 230% with a descript of 3 souls doing 65%. I guess it's a total on top which has to be the only way to do better than 350%.

Well of souls and spiders good for range or 3 elites. Bears mobs or larger target has been the only build that feels fast to mow stuff down. I used to have 550 LoH in addition to 2.8 LS. I'm down to my blackthorns and trying to find something to add to LoH again. When it came to Ghom's cloud I kid you not but could stand there spamming bears and remain at maximum life. I thought it was a bug at first but big stinker gas cloud and leechers proc'd so much life return in addition to life regen gear.
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Edit: didn't see your last 2 posts for some reason :)

I dug it up from around 1.0.6 so not sure if this has changed any since the patch. The format seems messed up now from my computer so hopefully it looks OK for your viewing.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7415136990

The short details was leechers proc'd throns / LoH / LS and Big Stinker poison cloud only proc'd life steal. In total it was a lot of life back. Other thing I notice if most gargs are knocked around a bit so can be less attacks dished at times so at least the gas cloud would constantly drain.
Edited by Shockwave#1233 on 2/18/2013 2:21 PM PST
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