Diablo® III

Competitive PvP Ruleset Discussion

Honestly, there will be no real competition in a game where gear matters 99% and the only time skill matters is in the 1% of matches where both players are on a roughly even footing equipment wise. I feel the only way this will ever become a competitive sport is with all blue gear or the like which is easily accessible to everyone.

In the current no-holds-barred scheme, only the top players (top because of gear, although they could be skilled too) have any chance to ever compete against other top players. This isn't like other games where both players have access to the same equipment, abilities, moves, characters etc. In this game, Diablo III, the player with the superior equipment wins 99% of time time (exceptions only for similarly geared players), there is no challenge in that. I can just stand there with my DH against a player who spent 1M on his entire gear and just sneeze an Impale in their general direction to 1-shot them (and some of the top 10-30B in gear players can do the same to me).
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Iria even with the unbalance and heavy gear dependence it doesnt change the fact that d3 is one of the most popular games out atm and that people innately want to compete and that it is fun to watch the top players compete in any game.

just like its impossible to compete at the top lvl in a high skill game like sc without thousands of hours of practice, it wont be possible to compete in d3 at the top lvl without thousands of hours of grinding.
Edited by ChuckNorris#1885 on 2/14/2013 12:43 PM PST
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Well perhaps you are right, it can be fun to compete in a popular game. Although the current system makes it so only the top of the top (like yourself) will want to play! I would like to play against players of roughly my caliber and not get demolished (with no chance of victory) by you, Revrac, Mystical, or the like!

Also, these tournaments should be for fun only (no prizes); adding a tournament fee will turn off most players as they know they have no chance of winning. Of course, players can still wager if they want, but forcing that on a tournament will greatly diminish the number of entrants.

I propose a division based PVP system where you get placed in the division based on your gear score (in some sense). I would probably place myself in a Platinum or Diamond League whereas players like you and Revrac can be in the Masters/Grandmasters League!
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That any one can confirm that in patch 1.07 stable we have rule from update 2 weeks ago on PTR:

"Dueling
Players are now correctly considered "Elites" in PvP"

??
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Yes, players are considered elites. SoJ and Litany are now the most popular ring combo!
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02/14/2013 01:40 PMPosted by Iria
I propose a division based PVP system where you get placed in the division based on your gear score (in some sense). I would probably place myself in a Platinum or Diamond League whereas players like you and Revrac can be in the Masters/Grandmasters League!


Iria, ask you pointed out. Diablo PvP is based on equipment/ gear level, and if you are within a gear level, then your skill selection and timing of execution start to matter.

For that case, since there are so many different gear/ affix combination in the available setups and difference in gearing concepts between classes, it is merely impossible to place someone sole by a determined gear level.

However, one way to lump gear/ and skill together is simply uses a matchmaking system/ ladder in starcraft 2 based on your winning percentage in PvP. Based your performance in 5 placement matches, players are divided into your leagues, from bronze, silver, platinum, diamond, master, and the top grandmaster.
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02/13/2013 05:10 AMPosted by ChuckNorris
strongly disagree with this as well. Not only does it slow the momentum of the fight which makes it boring to watch but also there are several gearing and skill options available to every class that would allow them to heal in between kills. letting players artificially be healed in between kills completely invalidates those players choices who focus on life regen and extra healing from potions on gear as well as choosing healing skills as part of their skill selection.


Not being able to exit between matches also puts monk at a disadvantage since if you die in a first match, you need to pop a mantra for 50 spirit, then you are left to run for your life until you get enough spirit until you can attack.

I propose exiting to town and re-entering after every match.

I also propose a best of 5 match for all times.

Other suggestion on skills selection: you will start with a skill/ build for the first match, Only losing player have a chance to change skills set to start the next match. This will provide healthy meta-gaming of skills/ build choices.
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As a solution to the gearing: either introduced ilvl or quality restrictions on the gear that can be used (ex: no higher than ilvl 60 or no higher than blue or somesuch). This would allow pretty much anyone with enough skill to compete without breaking the bank.
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Lol @ diablo pvp in MLG wont ever happen sorry to burst the bubble.
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-mods!

duel: 1 vs 1 (best of 3/5/10)
team match: x vs. x
king of the ring: survival mode 1 vs.1, who lives is who stay in the ring
deathmatch: current mod
die hard: 1 vs. 3
naked fight: no items, just white weapon
tournament: lots of people dueling in consecutive stages... you know... a tournament

-global ranking!
a system of points, everyone starts in the ranking with "x" points, same for all, when you win you steal points from who loose, the amount of points is based on the difference of power between you and your opponent, if you beat a rookie you get few points but if you beat someone stronger than you, then the amount is bigger.
the difference of power between players is defined by a pvp level, calculated by a average of dps and ehp,

would be awesome to have counter of frags, deaths and fights
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from my experiences the only way any kind of competitive dueling can take place is something like this.

this is the only way to deal with the "stale-mate specs/setups" when often that's not the case but it's a matter of re-specing and gearing towards your opponent's build/spec.

This also keeps the game's other fun side which is gearing up your character a certain way and progressing slowly to the perfect ideal character you would like to have.

I personally use a PVP set of over 30 items that I inter-change depending on my opponent's gear setup and their spec that they use with that gear setup. I rarely use the same generic gear set for one class, which I think is a very interesting part of d3 pvp.

For example I could have make a high burst, low ehp, high regen build vs a low dps, high ehp, low regen geared class/spec or visa versa, and balancing in between the two extremes and finding the perfect sweet spot vs each opponent is very interesting part of the fights since not everyone does the exact same amount of dps and have the same amount of ehp.

anyhow I think these two things are key to make pvp work without having to have gear sets that are perfectly balanced to d3 pvp.

1.) It should be a dueling system where if you win 3x in a row you win the match as opposed to winning best out of xxx, it really takes the randomness out of the crit/one shot builds and the cheese builds which takes a round or two to figure out and counter.

this also brings the rock,paper,scissor element back into the game which is an interesting part of d3 pvp.

it shows to a certain degree who the better player was for that match with this setup.

2.) There needs to be a timer on the rounds in a match, for example 1 round = 5 mins.

I think 5 mins is the perfect timer for a round, before it would reset and each player who would have to back to town re-spec/re-gear or do something to try and win and not be a stalemate.

This is a must-have imo, since a lot of players in d3 pvp scene now gear/spec to just try and not die and cause stalemates which honestly just ruins pvp in general.

So a match would go something like this

- first player enters town, puts on gear/spec they want to use, enters chapel
- second player enters town, does the same and enters.
- flags down, round started
- loser respec/regear if need be, re-enter
- winner respec/regear if need be, re-enter
- if stale-mate, both will respec/regear one at a time and re-enter

- first person to win 3 in a row or most wins within 30 mins is the winner of the match

Also in regards to gear-switch, I think gear-swaps should be allowed but limited to certain item slots, not entire gear.

You can have two completely extreme sets of gear that favor different scenarios but still using the same spec, some classes can do this, while others can not.

The classes that can not are at a big dis-advantage.

I believe gear-swaps during rounds should be limited to rings,amulets only, since often you can add in a SOJ and that could be the difference between you being able to down your opponent or not while at the same time it could be the difference of surviving or dying.

and MACROS? lol, that would kill this game for pvp.

The fact that you need so many different gear setups for each situation is what gives this patch longevity and will make it enjoyable longer.
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I like the idea of having the round start when flags are placed. Sorta like touching gloves. I think you would need a specific spot to start on so that everyone could see all the flags. Rotate starting spots after each round in case there is some kind of advantage to a particular starting spot. No moving or casting till all flags are down. Could also have a third player plant the flag if it is a 1v1 duel.

edit i gueus you don't really need the staring spot thing since it shows on minimap.
Edited by Dirk#1799 on 2/19/2013 4:15 PM PST
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MLG!? As a former GB/CEVO/CAL player that would be amazing for the game! The only problem I feel with making D3 a competitive game at the moment is the lack of balance. There would have to be stringent rule sets in place to ensure fair duels. Otherwise, I'm all for it!
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Edited by mavericK#1718 on 2/20/2013 4:33 AM PST
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I have posted something about dueling in the past though. I'm not sure what u guys are looking for but i seriously think a better system should have been implemented. Although the term brawling is not exactly meant for pvp rules, so I've never trolled about the brawling system. In a way it was correct to say that when someone dies and respawns again just to kill another player is called brawling. But pvp is a system where classes of different characters are needed to be tweaked to maintain a just playing field. As for the characters stats, that's a different story altogether. Since its about the system for pvp-ing, this was what i had in mind.

1. An independent pvp channel

2. A ranking system for both server and class. Ranks depending on players wins/losses/draws not level, gears, item management etc etc. So a lvl 25paragon wd can end up in rank 3 with lvl 67paragon barbs.

3. Point system for pvp.

-Points gained from wins/losses/draws (draws being a player killing another and that player dying of DOT from his opponent
-Points able to be used for claiming items for pvp. EG: Temporary stat increase potion, temporary buff potions. not sellable, bound to acct.

4. Weekly/Monthly competetions held among players of same rank.

-Prizes allocated to winners of competitions such as equipments of random stats. pvp use only

As for the long run of the game pvp system, probably a cross server pvp competition at various times of the day or week. Two timings preferred for players in various regions of the world playing on the same servers.

5. Group pvp for 2v2 on current diablo gameplay. If the developers decide to increase the players in a map then probably a 3v3 or max 4v4.
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Sorry for my lack of replies, was a relatively busy week for me, but I'm back to having more free time. I've read through all the comments, some good stuff so far, and I've taken notes. I also saw some suggestions as far as game development goes, I should make it clear, we're trying to work with the system currently in place. Regardless, keep 'em comin' (plus, I don't see a reason why we I can't take these suggestions to Blizzard).
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What are u and your team actually looking for sixen?
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Assign a value to item properties then set a limit to the players total gear 'value'. This allows for tactical gearing choices while limiting the impact of ig wealth. It also allows for different divisions based on point values, much like light weight/heavy weight boxing.

An example:
Per point of;
armor = 1
non main stat = 1
vita = 2
main stat = 3
all res = 10
cc = 20
cd = 10
as = 10
movement = 20
melee/ranged res = 25
vs elites(any) = 100

(these values are just examples)

An amulet with 10 cc 60 cd, 200 main stat would then have a value of 1400, while the player may have a point limit of 25k and can then select another 23.6k worth of gear for the other slots. The benefit in this system is that a very good item will use a lot more points, the player can still pick it but it will leave fewer points for the rest of his/her gear.
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02/20/2013 12:43 PMPosted by SilverSpear
What are u and your team actually looking for sixen?

Suggestions as far as rules go to make this possible, :).

02/21/2013 09:02 PMPosted by DeadLegacy
Assign a value to item properties then set a limit to the players total gear 'value'.

I actually considered something like this as well, it's just difficult to distribute evenly due to the large amount of affixes and RNG.
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Assign a value to item properties then set a limit to the players total gear 'value'. This allows for tactical gearing choices while limiting the impact of ig wealth. It also allows for different divisions based on point values, much like light weight/heavy weight boxing.

An example:
Per point of;
armor = 1
non main stat = 1
vita = 2
main stat = 3
all res = 10
cc = 20
cd = 10
as = 10
movement = 20
melee/ranged res = 25
vs elites(any) = 100

(these values are just examples)

An amulet with 10 cc 60 cd, 200 main stat would then have a value of 1400, while the player may have a point limit of 25k and can then select another 23.6k worth of gear for the other slots. The benefit in this system is that a very good item will use a lot more points, the player can still pick it but it will leave fewer points for the rest of his/her gear.


I do not see any method of segregation like this as a viable option, as you are grossly underestimating the complexity of the different stats and how each class is effected by them differently. not to mention the effects of certain legendary gears. at best it will simply move bis from one set of items to another.

A much easier solution is simply to sort participants by win %. once sufficient data is established within a league already running then selective rules to facilitate class balance could be added if needed.
Edited by ChuckNorris#1885 on 2/21/2013 10:16 PM PST
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I do not see any method of segregation like this as a viable option, as you are grossly underestimating the complexity of the different stats and how each class is effected by them differently. not to mention the effects of certain legendary gears. at best it will simply move bis from one set of items to another.

A much easier solution is simply to sort participants by win %. once sufficient data is established within a league already running then selective rules to facilitate class balance could be added if needed.


Chuck, I have to fully agree with you on this one. The most simple and elegant balance for any type of 1v1, is the win % and league.

Assigning a stat point for gear will NOT work, if anything there are classes that requires IAS to gear and some classes don't need IAS to be effective in dealing damage in PvP.
Edited by dracolich#1732 on 2/22/2013 6:30 AM PST
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