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Don't tell me that they aren't. Each one had strengths / weaknesses.
I'm not sure that anybody ever said that.
How can the game get better if we accept everything and anything about Diablo 3, when it is blatantly clear that the game has flaws? The developers even said so in the asnswers to Ask the Devs. Thanks for twisting the entire argument around too and remaining civil, too. Is this thread even about changing the game? NO!
You want to know why it was complex? Because the player had to THINK about which decision he/she was making, because there was compromise! You had to choose between one ore the other. The more +5% resistances you added, the more powerful you could become. BUT, you also needed the items that got you enough resistance and you had to sacrifice other stats. Things as simple as this really were the final touches on the itemization, there were so many cool options to think about!
Anyway, nice job supporting Diablo 3 builds. All classes use the same 6 or so runes (there are a few exceptions) and all have the same stats on their gear. Everybody is a clone with the same playstyle. A WW barb WW's, a blizzard sorc blizzards. Simple.
EDIT: what's wrong with trading to get gear? Please tell me.
Edited by Wolverine#1833 on 2/17/2013 3:11 PM PST
You must have not played D2 if you think Paladins are the only REAL viable build to kill Baal.
Many of my past Sorceress' and Necromancers would disagree with you.
And my druids, assassins, amazons, and barbs!
I had a perfectly geared mf sorc and I noticed a big difference playing in full games, tomb vipers are very deadly.
Unless you played a paladin which were kind of bs because of their insane defense bonuses, also I see alot of hammerdin references in this thread you guys do know hammerdins didnt exist until 1.13 (or whatever) which was after D2's height of popularity.
So you admit you didn't have a lot of success in D2, I had gotten all class all the way through in D2, my favorite was my sorceress and I found pallies were underpowered. when you got to the end the Pallies were holding you back.
Before 1.03 that was what... 10 years of diablo 2? That patch was a godsend for most of us.
This is hardly the case. These were actual builds, not just using the individual skills. I gave the primary skill for reference.
Also, respeccing wasn't added in until 1.13 which was LAST YEAR and it was limited to once per difficulty.
Edited by Graverobber#1713 on 2/18/2013 9:31 AM PST
You may also want to remember the difficulty level could be easily equated to D3's current mp0-1, where anything you can think about can work.Too much reality for this forum.
What I get a good laugh out of is how the shift in focus to increased difficulty actually further pushed people away from build variety. Who is going to play an off the wall build that is less efficient if they can't clear as a a MP level than the CM or WW builds of the day? The comparatively ease of D2 made strange builds more acceptable as the effective reduction in farming/progression speed was much less significant than in D3.
The fun in Diablo 2 had nothing to do with the difficulty. It came from the feeling of growing to overpowering strength as you progressed through the game regardless of the build you chose. The higher difficulty of D3 pretty much guarantees that the only way you'll feel that power is by choosing the top notch builds, as we've already seen this is very common for those who've progressed into inferno, and even that feeling of power will be limited at MP10 until insanely geared.
Edited by steveman0#1968 on 2/18/2013 9:55 AM PST
In D2, you don't need godly gears to be godly, you just need proper gears.
In D3, you cannot be godly without godly gears. In face, without godly gears, your godly leveled character is a noob.
Edited by silverkw#1355 on 2/18/2013 10:08 AM PST
Barbarian: Whirlwind, Frenzy, Throwing Weapons Specialty, Leap/Bash for PvP, All built around a particular Weapon specialty (Always needed that 1 point in Berserk for Physical Immunes XD )
Only 1 build was viable for PvE: whirlwind, the rest was garbage in comparison.
Only hammer was viable for PvE, the rest was garbage.
Can't speak for all classes but all for sorcs, only Frozen orb was really viable.
As for PvP, there was no balance whatsoever, amazons just raped everyone. Every single build used the same stat distribution.
D2 had close to no build variety and no PvP balance whatsoever.
But it was good at the time because we had nothing else, if it came out today it would be a piece of crap.
Edited by Flammy#2999 on 2/18/2013 10:18 AM PST
I find it funny reading this and realizing many of youare talking about different versions of D2 and claiming the other person is wrong/
Endgame: Is it Baal in Hell 8 (most builds could do) or Tristram UBRS (very few could)
Respec: Yes/No (Until patch 1.03 which was 3-5 years post release that was NOT an option... I sent soooo many Necros to their deletion due to issues I found.
Build diversity: You "actively" only used 2-4 abilities at a time and occasionally changed pre 1.10. Once 1.10 came out and forced immunities you saw a bigger plethora of skills (except for Paladin and Necro, they stayed fairly similar). Also teleport only counts for sorc, Enigmas were only available to the masses due to duping (Enigma was the correct thing, correct? Sorry brain is having a tough time remembering atm)
Edit: Actively = once every minute or so
Hammerdins (seen a lot talked about) was interesting it was good/decent, then horrible, then godly
depending on who you talk to D2 classic or D2 1.10+ was "D2 at its peak." Anyways, I just enjoyed watching people bicker about aspects of D2 and both of them being right... at a snapshot of a version of D2, heh, that was fun.
Edited by Lykotic#1869 on 2/18/2013 10:37 AM PST
^Ya, many people here as you said are talking about different periods of d2. I still remember my nova sorc in 1.08, was so much fun herding up the cows, then teleporting into the middle and slaughtering. Using a lvl 33 tele necro with might merc + cruel thundermaul iron golem to kill lvl 90 sorc or amazons on HC. Arctic Blast druids spraying the entire screen in 1.10 and on. Hammerdins towards the end were fun to play but were really bad for a long time. As you said, necro and orb sorc were always good. Teleport staff or tele ammy were fairly expensive but did work well before enigmas became duped for the masses.
I'd still say using 2-4 abilities, more if you are a necro, especially a trang oul necro, is close to the same as now. For example, a barb on d2 might use a combination of leap/zerk/ww, cast BO, shout, and battle command or w/e it was, and possibly taunt or howl where as a barb in D3 now will use frenzy/ww, war cry, sprint, ignore pain if you're on HC, and WOTB. Maybe replace a skill here or there. Perhaps softcore vs hardcore also affected how many skills a player would use. I know my HC barb on d3 basically keeps ignore pain and WOTB unused until an oh !@#$ moment.
Edited by Utukka#1683 on 2/18/2013 10:53 AM PST
That !@#$ was nerfed in like 1.04
and if you played a zon in classic you sucked because every zon spec was terrible after the guided arrow nerf
Edited by VitaminEZ#1454 on 2/18/2013 10:53 AM PST
Play styles I remember from Diablo 2:
-Sitting in town whining for Grush
-Sitting in town asking for TP from people also in town
-Standing by the portal in cows
-Standing by the portal in Baal
-Rushing Baal for items, pickit bots get items
-Nobody playing Act 2 normal ~ act 4 hell. Solo the entire game 3x each per character because everyone Grush'd to 80+
-Bots grind game for high runes, ruined economy - nobody has anything they didn't steal from someone else
-Scammers in every trade attempt
-Level 99 Cookie-cutters dueling Zeal Paladins or WW barbs, everything else obsolete
-Bots joining your games, spamming websites to get you to pay money to reclaim scammed items
I mean, did any of you f*****s even play Diablo 2? What exactly are you remembering that was so amazing that Diablo 3 lacks or hasn't implemented as a work-around to things you deliberately attempted to circumvent, skip, rush through or plan out just ruined the game?
Diablo 3 has the same 'ruined economy' of people playing too much and raising the prices of things no one can afford except the people who played so much that they got the same or similar epic no-one-can-afford-except-the-top-1-%-of-the-community.
Everything else is better. The items aren't worse, they best ones are just less common by a much larger portion.
Play styles I remember from Diablo 2:
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