Diablo® III

Diablo 2 builds I remember

02/18/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Flammy
-Sitting in town whining for Grush


because you were bad? at least is a social activity

02/18/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Flammy
-Sitting in town asking for TP from people also in town


you should have waypoints.. but again a social activity

-Standing by the portal in cows
-Standing by the portal in Baal


you were scared to attack?

02/18/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Flammy
-Rushing Baal for items, pickit bots get items


didnt like the group loot drops? play with friends or do what I did join a full cow game solo baal then half the cow level

02/18/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Flammy
-Nobody playing Act 2 normal ~ act 4 hell. Solo the entire game 3x each per character because everyone Grush'd to 80+


not true I made a char last june and plenty of games to join

02/18/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Flammy
-Bots grind game for high runes, ruined economy - nobody has anything they didn't steal from someone else


different then bots grinding gold? anyways I found plenty of godly items including high runes, a few months ago I logged on to remember what real item farming felt like found a perfect 141def shako in 30 min.

02/18/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Flammy
-Scammers in every trade attempt


I would say scammers in less than 1% of trade attempts, I never used JSP and traded often 20 -30 times a day using in game channels and custom game names.

02/18/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Flammy
-Level 99 Cookie-cutters dueling Zeal Paladins or WW barbs, everything else obsolete


im no dueling expert and im sure cookie cutter builds ruled, but trapsin was popular and bowzon before runewords

02/18/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Flammy
-Bots joining your games, spamming websites to get you to pay money to reclaim scammed items


I only saw this towards the end of D2's life

02/18/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Flammy
I mean, did any of you f*****s even play Diablo 2?


I mean did you ever play D2? before xpac or even 1.13 runewords? doesnt sound like it
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People think its cool to say "Man I miss the good old days." Nothing to see here, move along.
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I love how these people say the design was so bad in D2... And yet they are the same people that played the game 10 years after release. Something must have been good about it if you played it for 10 years. I wonder how many people will be playing D3 in 10 years. I will answer that for you now. NONE.
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Barbarian: Whirlwind, Frenzy, Throwing Weapons Specialty, Leap/Bash for PvP, All built around a particular Weapon specialty (Always needed that 1 point in Berserk for Physical Immunes XD )


Only 1 build was viable for PvE: whirlwind, the rest was garbage in comparison.


Paladin: Zeal, Charge, FoH, Conviction/Vengeance, Blessed Hammer, Smite, Sacrifice, and various Aura combinations with these


Only hammer was viable for PvE, the rest was garbage.

Can't speak for all classes but all for sorcs, only Frozen orb was really viable.

As for PvP, there was no balance whatsoever, amazons just raped everyone. Every single build used the same stat distribution.

D2 had close to no build variety and no PvP balance whatsoever.

But it was good at the time because we had nothing else, if it came out today it would be a piece of crap.

I'm guessing this is all second-hand information to you because it would seem you haven't played D2 or were otherwise bad at it. I never actually built a WW barb, I generally played him as frenzy which worked just fine. As a pally I never took a hamerdin past normal and easily wrecked Baal/cows with a few zealots and auradins that I built.

Your post is so hilariously untrue I'm almost wondering if it was actually meant to be sarcasm.
Edited by steveman0#1968 on 2/18/2013 3:03 PM PST
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Play styles I remember from Diablo 2:

-Sitting in town whining for Grush
-Sitting in town asking for TP from people also in town
-Standing by the portal in cows
-Standing by the portal in Baal
-Rushing Baal for items, pickit bots get items
-Nobody playing Act 2 normal ~ act 4 hell. Solo the entire game 3x each per character because everyone Grush'd to 80+
-Bots grind game for high runes, ruined economy - nobody has anything they didn't steal from someone else
-Scammers in every trade attempt
-Level 99 Cookie-cutters dueling Zeal Paladins or WW barbs, everything else obsolete
-Bots joining your games, spamming websites to get you to pay money to reclaim scammed items

I mean, did any of you f*****s even play Diablo 2? What exactly are you remembering that was so amazing that Diablo 3 lacks or hasn't implemented as a work-around to things you deliberately attempted to circumvent, skip, rush through or plan out just ruined the game?

Diablo 3 has the same 'ruined economy' of people playing too much and raising the prices of things no one can afford except the people who played so much that they got the same or similar epic no-one-can-afford-except-the-top-1-%-of-the-community.
Everything else is better. The items aren't worse, they best ones are just less common by a much larger portion.

You make it sound like this stuff was all that common. It really wasn't. In D2's prime most of this was quite rare occurrences. None of these became remotely prevalent until half a decade into the life of the game when the main playerbase began declining. About the time of the 1.11-1.12 patch transition.
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02/18/2013 03:03 PMPosted by DeadRu
I love how these people say the design was so bad in D2... And yet they are the same people that played the game 10 years after release. Something must have been good about it if you played it for 10 years. I wonder how many people will be playing D3 in 10 years. I will answer that for you now. NONE.


D2 was fun, but it was flawed in design in that it fostered the bots,dupes,hacks and exploits that turned the game into a cesspool. I foresee D3 being every bit as popular in the future.

That said how can you speak for everybody. D3 has much more potential than D2 ever offered. They left a lot of D2 on the cutting floor because while some of it was loved they were the very things that led the game down the path of dupes,hacks,bots, and exploits.

Meanwhile they gave us a dynamic skill system, an ah to mitigate the loss of named games, a rmah so ALL can have the chance to safely buy gear as opposed to just those willing to cheat in D2 and strike at the item sellers at the same time.

The first game that actually allows players to get money for playing, like it or not it is revolutionary.

The foundation D3 puts down will carry the game forward for a long time.

You probably should have left at least bots out of that list as D3 is easily in a worse state with regards to botting potential. Lacking proper map randomization is like an open invitation to even the laziest of programmers. Throw the RMAH and the gold driven economy in the mix and it is an even greater lure for that sort of behavior. Considering the fact that there's already been a duping incident I would consider removing that one from the list as well. D3 could still improve in these regards.

I think the question I would ask myself though is "Were these changes worth it?" Honestly my answer is a resounding no. I would much prefer the bot, hack, dupe, and exploit ridden D2 than to sacrifice so many amazing game systems in a futile attempt to completely squash them. I don't believe the common player should have to pay the price for the actions of the corrupt few.
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I played a barb in D2.. had a WW barb, throw barb, and frenzy barb, also tried to make a bard barb and zerker barb but throw was probably my all time favorite especially for pvp. Also had a necro and a pally but barb was my fav.

That being said I played D2 for years specifically because of how fun PvP was and it was the main drive for me to even hunt for loot; don't get me wrong the item hunt was also really enjoyable in itself and a lot more challenging than what we have now but the only reason I quit playing is because PvP got ruined by hackers. That isn't the games fault - it is the fault of people who are cheating because they suck and the lack of security.

I don't have to tell you guys how inferior the pvp is in this game compared to the predecessor - it's pretty apparent and extremely strict. The cap on players and system in itself is a huge step back from D2 - the system was totally fun and when you didn't play with cheats it did seem fairly balanced.

So many issues with this game: crappy/boring item affixes when compared to LoD, tiers of gear (not worth mixing tiers b/c of item affixes), 4 player limit, 1 pvp zone, linear world areas, dumbed down skill system, elemental affixes only for aesthetics (besides cold), the nerfs to inferno, the nerfs to elite mob affixes, bodies of slain demons disappearing, Cain being killed by some stupid butterfly chick, no horadric cube, limited on skills to use, Ponies and no Cows - just to name a few.
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02/18/2013 03:37 PMPosted by Deegsz
Ponies and no Cows


the ponies was a decent inside joke, but yes I would have preferred cows as well.

http://kotaku.com/5062184/behold-the-new-diablo-iii-logo-t+shirt

This is just a link to a shirt they made as well,

the joke stems from early criticism that the game was "too bright and colorful" for Diablo (which does hold some weight, imo) and so they took the complaint, made a joke out of it and ran with it.

It is just... too much of an inside joke.
Edited by Lykotic#1869 on 2/18/2013 3:43 PM PST
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Ponies and no Cows


the ponies was a decent inside joke, but yes I would have preferred cows as well.

http://kotaku.com/5062184/behold-the-new-diablo-iii-logo-t+shirt

This is just a link to a shirt they made as well,

the joke stems from early criticism that the game was "too bright and colorful" for Diablo (which does hold some weight, imo) and so they took the complaint, made a joke out of it and ran with it.

It is just... too much of an inside joke.

I'm more upset they spent as much time developing it as they did while making the zone so worthless. During D2's prime cows was an amazing place for both leveling and loot hunting and was a ton of fun in the process. It was entirely worth the time they spent making it (which was quite likely much less than the time it took to make the ponies). Ponies on the other hand turned into a black hole for dev time even though there were clearly many more, high profile issues that needed attention.
Edited by steveman0#1968 on 2/18/2013 3:49 PM PST
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Posts: 5,948
Hammerdin bots, hammerdin bots, hammerdin bots.

Trading with someone and getting scammed.

Amost all the enemies were fire immunes.

Every character having the same sprite.

Hammedin bots.

Yep, the good 'ole days.


So you just played in the latter years of Diablo 2 LOD? You should have played earlier.
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Telekinesis Sorceress!

SO MANY BUILDS! AMAZING. Every skill was a build! And every build was viable in Hell for farming Baal, especially Molten Boulder Druids! I am a non-biased D2 fan!

But seriously, wasn't that Molten Boulder skill just the worst?

02/18/2013 01:03 PMPosted by kweagle
I love how these people say the design was so bad in D2... And yet they are the same people that played the game 10 years after release. Something must have been good about it if you played it for 10 years. I wonder how many people will be playing D3 in 10 years. I will answer that for you now. NONE.


People only it played it that long because everything else was !@#$. Titan Quest was quality but got boring fast due to sorely lacking in randomization. A shame.
Edited by Ignatius#1870 on 2/18/2013 4:00 PM PST
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Even if Diablo 2's builds were narrowed down to a few options, it's still more than this game. Another advantage that it had, which I think a lot of Diablo 3 defenders ignore, is that you actually felt like your were making your character unique. This can go a long way. At least you felt like you were making a decision! At least it felt like your character was unique! This game is simply... Who has more mainstat on their gear? Who has highest DPS?
Instead, what they did is said "This is bad!" and threw the skill tree and stat points out the window. Quote from Jay Wilson, "The main reason that we didn't do attribute spending was that it was not a very good customization system." He then went on to describe that for most builds in Diablo 2, the player all ready had a predefined set of stats they wanted for their build. "That's a $#*@! customization system." "There's a mathmatically right answer." "So we focus more on customization sustems that cater more to playsyle, that feel more like customization." On the point of removing skill points, he added that the main reason for not having skill points is because players would then consequently dump all of their points into one skill, when they should be using multiple viable skills.
Obviously Diablo 2 did have some flaws, but it was also an extremely succesful powerhouse. What they should have done with the attribute system is make it so there would be multiple mathmatical solutions. With skill points, they did try caps but they said it didn't work. This baffles me. It didn't work? How can you not make it so the player is using all of their skills but they choose to improve one or two? If the player wants to use only a few skills, then why not let them? Just make it so that not using all of your skills is overall detrimental. Just make a smaller cap.
If you play Diablo 2, it seemed like absolute common sense! That's exactly what a Diablo 2 sequel was supposed to do: improve on all of the aspects of Diablo 2! Give people what people wanted: more viable builds, more playstyles, not having to reroll your character. Diablo 3 accomplished one of those goals, while making the system even worse than before.
Through development, the absence of Blizzard North was apparent. If you played Diablo 2, it was apparent what would improve the game. I can't believe some of the decisions about this game. The current devs have NO IDEA what the community and their fan base wants, as is apparent by the latest Ask the Devs responses.
/bury-face-in-hands.
Anyway, Diablo 3 is not a bad game. It's just gone a totally different direction than its predececssor. : (
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02/18/2013 03:03 PMPosted by DeadRu
D2 was fun, but it was flawed in design in that it fostered the bots,dupes,hacks and exploits that turned the game into a cesspool. I foresee D3 being every bit as popular in the future.


These things have nothing at all to do with the game design. They are all a result of Blizzard not wanting to put the time and effort into patching the game to prevent it. Thats like saying Doom is a !@#$ty game because you could use God mode to beat everything... It has nothing at all to do with game design.

02/18/2013 03:03 PMPosted by DeadRu
That said how can you speak for everybody. D3 has much more potential than D2 ever offered. They left a lot of D2 on the cutting floor because while some of it was loved they were the very things that led the game down the path of dupes,hacks,bots, and exploits.


It is simple. Unless blizzard intends on adding new content for the next ten years, there will be nothing to do in the game. Thats why it will die. The foundation of the game is broken to give it a long life like D2 has.

02/18/2013 03:03 PMPosted by DeadRu
Meanwhile they gave us a dynamic skill system, an ah to mitigate the loss of named games, a rmah so ALL can have the chance to safely buy gear as opposed to just those willing to cheat in D2 and strike at the item sellers at the same time.


If you ask me, all the AH does is make cheating 'legit'. Is really cheapens the game. If it was done without useing gold as a currency, it may have worked. The players should be the ones deciding what is used as currency, just like it was in D2.

02/18/2013 03:03 PMPosted by DeadRu
The first game that actually allows players to get money for playing, like it or not it is revolutionary.


It is revolutionary only in that is lines the pockets of blizzard without having to do anything.

02/18/2013 03:03 PMPosted by DeadRu
The foundation D3 puts down will carry the game forward for a long time.


The foundation of D3 is the very thing that will (and already has) kill this game.
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Hammerdin bots, hammerdin bots, hammerdin bots.

Trading with someone and getting scammed.

Amost all the enemies were fire immunes.

Every character having the same sprite.

Hammedin bots.

Yep, the good 'ole days.


Guess you don't go back far enough to remember before Hammerdins populated the whole community (this is the problem with most of this games players.)

For those of us who played Diablo 1 back when it was only a DEMO, we remember how great the series really started and how far it has fallen.
Edited by Vumael#1447 on 2/18/2013 5:44 PM PST
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I am going to raise the average mental age here so hang on to your hats kiddies.

Diablo2 had larger build diversity.... the concept that you could make:
-Summon necro
-Melee Necro
-Poison Necro
-Bone Necro (nuker)

Note the above are actually played entirely different and focus on different stats and diffferent equipment. Collecting equipment for a Bone necro was less than useful for a Melee or summon necro. (thus you'd have different min requirements for the right equipment)

Lets look at the Wizard from D3... basically every single wizard uses exactly the same stats (give or take a few) and only differs in the COLOR of energy he flings at the mobs. Let's face it... it doesn't matter if its arcane, fire, cold, or lightning.... its all the same really. Basically, because there really isn't a difference in equipment, one wizard can just decide he wants to use different skills and be pretty well off. (only exception is Archon for now)

D3 is now much closer to the original Gauntlet arcade game than D2 or D1.
This change was intentional and designed to grab the lower-end of the mental-age spectrum.
Less choices and easier means that the shallow end of the gene pool can play too.

Of course all of the shallow-end-of-the-gene-pool people love D3. It allows them to finally play a Diablo game as they don't have to make choices or do anything but /faceroll and still be successful.

What Diablo 3 lost sight of was "easy to play but difficult to master". D3 is rediculously simple to master because there really isn't an option. Choose your favorite color of stuff to fling at the mobs. The same strategy will work every single time, so no need to plan anything or bring additional equipment.

The thing is, D3 doesn't have to stay that way. With more stats that matter and more skill runes that aren't completely useless, and the allowance to focus on different skills, D3 could rise from the ashes and return the "difficult to master" component to its users.

"green elf is about to die"
Sorry flashback... it was always the green elf dying for some reason...
Edited by Azmir#1702 on 2/18/2013 6:14 PM PST
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Collecting equipment for a Bone necro was less than useful for a Melee or summon necro. (thus you'd have different min requirements for the right equipment)


I had not made that specific connection yet with D3, but you are totally right. That is exactly why it is so bland, the same gear works for virtually every skill set.
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02/17/2013 09:23 AMPosted by Graverobber
Paladin: Zeal, Charge, FoH, Conviction/Vengeance, Blessed Hammer, Smite, Sacrifice, and various Aura combinations with these


You missed mage! Get high ele damage auras with good ranged weapons and go to town! That build is fun to play.
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02/17/2013 01:21 PMPosted by Dwelve
So what keeps you from playing lots of characters in D3? In D2 you just had ONE ability and that was the build.


Dirty dirty lies. Here's another build I liked:

Support poison / physical assassin:

Main attack: blade flurry.

Keep venom, fade / speed, shadow master up.

Open with Cloak of Shadows every fight. Make sure you're using a weapon with amplify damage on (hit or striking, I don't remember which exactly worked with blade flurry, been a while) for buffs even if you're fighting immunes.

That's at least 5 skills with the claw mastery passive.
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Posts: 92
02/17/2013 02:07 PMPosted by steveman0
Again, good luck doing so without resource generators or only cooldown abilities :P

A build without resource generators is entirely possible...

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#ZcOj!X!bYbY

Even saw a recent DH build using a 0 Hatred Chakram. You're just not creative.
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