Diablo® III

How to add more depth to Paragon suggestion...

Forgive me if there is already a topic on this... But I have some idea's I thought that would not be too difficult to add some more personalition to the paragon system.

Many diablo II fans complain about the different approach in D3 regarding the skill tree and skill progression, and the depth of the paragon system in general. What I suggest is that instead of each lvl of paragon adding 3 to main stat 1 to each other stats, why not let us choose? It would add some spice, and the "builds" clearly could not be broken since they have already attained lvl 60 and can now focus their skills in a direction they see fit...

Also with the 3% bonus to Magic find, gold find, exp bonus, why not let us choose two of the three? players can then make a gold collecting dmon hunter or Witch Doctor, and an expericne monk orbarb, so they may stack any two or blanace and mix and match whatever combo they'd like!
Note: By stack any two I mean pick 2 of the three bonus we currently get. ex. pgl lvl 1 =3% mf and + 3% gold find... I level up to pgl lvl 2 then I pick the same two again. (this is technically a nerf to bonus's)

Lastly to take it a step further why not add paragon passives... every 10 lvl's add a small/weak but personalizing passive . this would be set up in similar fashion to the followers ( lvl 5 - 10 -15 etc.).
You are the developers here but here are some quick not well thought out examples...
1. Witch doctor...lvl 10 paragon pick one of the two passives A."Blood Flow" you, your pets, and follower gain 2% health or B. "voodoo power" your follower and pets absorb 3% of damage dealt to you while you have a mojo equipped...
2. Demon hunter... lvl 100 paragon final passive A. "Demon Vanguisher" 5% of your vitality damage buff to demons for 30 secs after being hit by a demon or B. "Beast Slayer" + %5 damage to Beasts permanent.

Now some may ask what if I have laready gotten to paragon blah blah blah... well just like the followers... when the patches roll let them assign where the want to en masse, or give them the OPTION to start over at paragon 0 or stay where they are at without access to the passives.

These (most likely simple) changes could add depth and replayability and help promote players to jump classes (which I pesonally find very fun, and keeps the game much more fresh)

Possibly another topic...
Also something cool I thought that could be added to help crafting and promote farming would be the addition of very rare "tomes of stat" example... tome of dexterity drops.. two options... teach to any account bound player +1-5 stat perma added... choose to include it in a crafted piece to get gauranteed +50-350 stat or whatever. You guys do the number crunching. Those are the ideas.
They could easily get people farming and not so much flipping, allow people to make items that feel like they own them.

So those are few things that I think could put this game over the top by keeping things everchangeable (d3) and also allow for a bit more customization to appease the rpg peeps!

What say you?
Edited by Lionhardt#1709 on 2/20/2013 7:56 AM PST
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I know it's long, but please read I want to know what people think... Thanks!
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Agreed!
Once level 60, paragon levels should give us more options instead of auto dumping into stats not of our choosing. However, they really put a focus on vitality and the dps stat for your character. As you suggested we should have a choice in my opinion in the secondary stats such as gold find, All resist, etc. etc.

The paragon leveling seems empty right now and should be utilized for new systems to be added. however, I would feel terribly sorry for those who are lvl p100 already and those new systems just dumped on them.
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Thanks for your input...Yeah, those who would already be plvl100 might feel cheated and at the same time add some spice to their playing, or they would then have incentive to start another character offering a bit more replayability however, I'm nowhere near plvl 100 and wouldn't know how they feel.
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Seems legit. I think the paragon passives would be too overpowered, or make it not fair for others. I never made it to paragon really, so couldn't tell ya!
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yeah especially for pvp, but if they update pvp they could simply have divisions for certain paragon lvls. The passives would obviously have to be scaled down, and only the highest lvl paragon passive skills be most valueble, but also rewarding for the time put in. The key I think would be allowing for different playstyles.. I.e. while Mojo is equipped or a class specific item. Only then would the bonus be applied, and the choice would be permanent, or perhaps even continue with d3's versatilty and allow to switch between the two for each paragon lvl, or pay 100k gold to reset... the possibilities look great i think. Players would get the best of both worlds.
Edited by Lionhardt#1709 on 2/15/2013 12:31 PM PST
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what about the "tomes of dexterity or even tome of magic find" ? I could see those possibly being overpowered if too frequent... should they be applicable at any level blacksmith or character? Should they then have tiered quantities or flat + stat to character + 50-350 stat to crafted item? I'd say flat...
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Everybody would stack either their main stat or vitality.

Doesn't seem like it would add much depth.
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Everybody would stack either their main stat or vitality.

Doesn't seem like it would add much depth.


true. The impact would not be great, but could be if the player has a specifc idea and way of playing. Wouldn't they also feel more attached to their character and feel they have more of a unique character? Perhaps also add a lv 50 paragon passive "light on their feet for Witch doctor" dexteriy improves movement speed by %2 total dexterity.
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I guess I like the idea of adding paragon more interesting, but... It was meant for only the very hardcore players... It wouldn't 'fix' the game. I know that's not what you're trying to do, but I think there would be better ways to improve the endgame.
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The lack of uniqueness does detract from the game. It's my one big disappointment from the earlier versions of Diablo. No scrolls to search for, no ability to modify weapons and armor.

It's rare you see much variation in overall capabilities within each class once Paragon level is achieved. WD's have their posse of pets and drip goop on the enemy, Barbarians whirlwind predictably, Wizards ice storm everything... there really does need to be more uniqueness to develop a character.
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Agreed!
Once level 60, paragon levels should give us more options instead of auto dumping into stats not of our choosing. However, they really put a focus on vitality and the dps stat for your character. As you suggested we should have a choice in my opinion in the secondary stats such as gold find, All resist, etc. etc.

The paragon leveling seems empty right now and should be utilized for new systems to be added. however, I would feel terribly sorry for those who are lvl p100 already and those new systems just dumped on them.


No All resists is not on the table. We have a way to get that. Blizzard gives us mf, points to main stat a few to the others. Beyond that you need to actually work at getting things like res all.

Just another gimmie,gimmie,gimmie thread.
We have players in inferno mp10 doing well. When is enough ,enough.


I wouldn't say this is a gimme gimme, as more of a spice thing up/ personalize your build... it could allow for those Plvl 100s to shift how they farm to be how they want. im thinking 20 ptoential passives per class they would have to choose 1 at each 10 lvs. I'm not going to create them all since I don't have access or sufficeint knowledge in Blizzards balances codes/ algorythims... but for instance...

regarding the all resist I agree with you in not increasing it per lvl however choosing a passive that improves your all resis at the expense of longer cooldowns... you could imagine how these passives instead of being blatant buffs could be small ways of customizing your build.
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I'd like to see a skill progression/customization system for Paragon levels myself. Every Paragon level up would gain 1 Paragon Point to spend on a specific Rune variant on a skill or Passive. The value of how much this adds to a Rune or Passive depends entirely on the skill in question, and what you are increasing about it.

Examples:

Monk's Wave of Light-Blinding Light: Could be used to increase the damage of the initial strike by 2.5%, or the additional damage to enemies in a line by 1%, or increase the stun by .05 seconds, or decrease the Spirit cost by .25, etc.

Barb's Weapon's Master: Could be used to increase Polearms/Spear IAS by .1%, or Crit Chance by .1%, or Crit Dam. by 1%, or increase damage by .15%, etc.

The increments would be fairly small for balance purposes, there are 100 points to gain after all. And it would require a monstrous amount of work to balance accordingly for every Rune and Passive in the game, but it would add to the ability to focus on 1 or 2 skills and make them different and interesting from other people who play the same class/skill build.

These should come with a respec being possible, but it should involve a quest to do so or a fair chunk of gold, not just be another freespec thing.
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Playing PoE reminded me of how the Diablo franchise USED to work. Character progression was a long-ish process. Many skills wouldn't be maxed until you are level 60+, lots of high-end items couldn't be worn until lvl 70-80. And keep in mind, getting to high lvls took some time (until you join botted Baal runs I guess, but that's another topic)

D3 = lvl to 60 in a matter of a few days of casual playing, have access to all spells (at their maximum magnitude, only altered by your dps / aka items you buy in the auction house), then grind to paragon 100 for the "benefit" of having a better chance to find more junk that drops, (and a modicum of stats).

I agree. Adding some 'panache' to the Paragon system would be great. Give us some interesting (but not OP) passives to choose from.. something. Even with the new experience rates in 1.07, I just.can't.do.the.grind.anymore. #boredtotears #playingothergames
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02/15/2013 01:11 PMPosted by simv
Every Paragon level up would gain 1 Paragon Point to spend on a specific Rune variant on a skill or Passive.


Nice.

Every rune has say.. 1-3 things that can be enhanced by paragon points. DH Ball Lightning, you could increase the range of its ticks, or increase projectile speed. Vault/Trail of Cinders, you could increase fire damage, or cause monsters to burn for X seconds after they walk over it.

The possibilities are endless. Each increment would have to be subtle, but after say 5-10 points it would be noticeable. More build diversification, more interest, more fun. Seems like Expansion material though.

It does speak to one of the game flaws. Doesn't feel like you BUILD a character. You just select from a set of skills that are freely available, the least they could do is let us customize aspects of those skills.
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I'd like to see a skill progression/customization system for Paragon levels myself. Every Paragon level up would gain 1 Paragon Point to spend on a specific Rune variant on a skill or Passive. The value of how much this adds to a Rune or Passive depends entirely on the skill in question, and what you are increasing about it.

Examples:

Monk's Wave of Light-Blinding Light: Could be used to increase the damage of the initial strike by 2.5%, or the additional damage to enemies in a line by 1%, or increase the stun by .05 seconds, or decrease the Spirit cost by .25, etc.

Barb's Weapon's Master: Could be used to increase Polearms/Spear IAS by .1%, or Crit Chance by .1%, or Crit Dam. by 1%, or increase damage by .15%, etc.

The increments would be fairly small for balance purposes, there are 100 points to gain after all. And it would require a monstrous amount of work to balance accordingly for every Rune and Passive in the game, but it would add to the ability to focus on 1 or 2 skills and make them different and interesting from other people who play the same class/skill build.

These should come with a respec being possible, but it should involve a quest to do so or a fair chunk of gold, not just be another freespec thing.


I like that idea as well, I feel that it could be interpretted as Overpowered despite you noting small increments. I see more value in New basic skills ( i think best to be passive) that allow for a different main stat to be valueble for a class that it owuld normally not benift their basic skills. (if that sentence makes sense lol). For instance... passive lvl 70 paragon... Zombie feed...
pick one skill... a. all pet speed (even mobile zombies in Zombie wall rune) increased by %25 dexterity... or b . All pets and followers gain ___ armor based upon some percentage of your Strength. Your rune suggestion could even be included where "lvl 50 paragon" Monk runes in mantra school increased by blah blah blah specifics i cant calculate off the top of my head. :) Thanks for you input!
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Playing PoE reminded me of how the Diablo franchise USED to work. Character progression was a long-ish process. Many skills wouldn't be maxed until you are level 60+, lots of high-end items couldn't be worn until lvl 70-80. And keep in mind, getting to high lvls took some time (until you join botted Baal runs I guess, but that's another topic)

D3 = lvl to 60 in a matter of a few days of casual playing, have access to all spells (at their maximum magnitude, only altered by your dps / aka items you buy in the auction house), then grind to paragon 100 for the "benefit" of having a better chance to find more junk that drops, (and a modicum of stats).

I agree. Adding some 'panache' to the Paragon system would be great. Give us some interesting (but not OP) passives to choose from.. something. Even with the new experience rates in 1.07, I just.can't.do.the.grind.anymore. #boredtotears #playingothergames


I think that these higher tier passives would bring even more value to the interchangability of the D3 skills. Don't get me wrong in this post, I see what the devs were trying to do by making skills swappable, and I enjoy what D3 is and changing skills from session to session. Adding passives would allow hardcore players to carve a character they want while it still allows "noobs" like me and my friends to ahve options and not be screwed over by a mistake...
Edited by Lionhardt#1709 on 2/15/2013 1:29 PM PST
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