Diablo® III

DISCUSSION: Marquis Ruby vs Marquis Emerald.

Small error I think, the jewelery damage should be added with OH and other sources of min/max damage, before applying the weapon APS, not after.

Yes, this is correct, my bad.

Also, the ruby damage is increased by the bonus damage on weapons, with the max of 50%.

This isn't true though. Blizzard stated in the PTR update a few weeks ago: "The new buffed Rubies will do exactly what the tooltip claims. If a tooltip says +80 to Minimum Damage and +80 to Maximum Damage, then the damage on the weapon will go up by those amounts when the Ruby is socketed."

Edit: by the way, looking at the formula you've gotten, we can actually exclude weapon base aps from the factors that make ruby better than emerald.

The lower the value of "weapon base damage + jewelry damage + offhand damage + ele damage / (1 + %ED)" the better for ruby. This also shows that %ED affects the effectiveness of ruby compared to emerald, but very insignificantly and only if ele damage is high (Chantodo).

All this makes Chantodo a good thing to put ruby in tbh. In fact, even if dps stays roughly the same, ruby means that damage will be less crit dependant, or, in other words, less spiky (better for low hp trash mobs).
Edited by HellKitsune#2562 on 2/15/2013 4:23 PM PST
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This isn't true though. Blizzard stated in the PTR update a few weeks ago: "The new buffed Rubies will do exactly what the tooltip claims. If a tooltip says +80 to Minimum Damage and +80 to Maximum Damage, then the damage on the weapon will go up by those amounts when the Ruby is socketed."



EDIT: I just tested and bonus weapon damage does apply to the ruby. I put a flawless square (+25 dmg) in my Archon wand that has 43% damage. The min damage went from 563 to 599, which is an increase of 36. 25*1.43 = 35.75 which rounds up to 36 and is consistant with my theory.
Edited by Loroese#1415 on 2/15/2013 5:08 PM PST
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The Chantodo Will set with open socket is better with a ruby.

The classic crit dmg + open socket black weapon with triumvirate is better with an emerald.

That's how it worked out for me.
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a marquise ruby makes me lose dps according to d3up.com
but im fairly crit dmg starved so that makes sense i think
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For me the new Ruby gem improved everything. I lost 100% crit dmg went from 549% too 449% and now i am critting higher than i was before..The showing DPS only increased by about 1900 i think but Since my build feeds off of Weapon dmg, Rend,EQ and Wrath now just dominate everything more.
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02/15/2013 08:43 AMPosted by Rouge
You need like 500% unsocketed critdamage for ruby to outdps emerald, GL!


Damn, I can't seem to get past that 46x% wall! Last time I hit 487% CD, but I scaled back for EHP, and believe me, I know my EHP is abysmal, but I get by! Even before RD nerf. :)
Edited by Sky#1683 on 2/15/2013 7:02 PM PST
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D3up says marquise ruby will give me 12k dps upgrade over marquise emerald, then i decided to try it for myself, buying 3 ruby and the recipe, turns out:

it did add more dps than marquise emerald for me.., but only 5k !

not that i'm complaining, but now i have 1 marquise emerald (worth 100m on current price) just sit on stash doing nothing...lol

Edit:

Maybe its because my CC is a bit low, its only 50% and 53% with scoundrel

w/ Marquise emerald:
DPS : 291k
CHD : 434%

w/ marquise ruby:
DPS : 296k
CHD: 324%
Edited by Fatamorgana#6950 on 2/15/2013 7:18 PM PST
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ghom dies quicker with emerald
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Hello,

The Marq Ruby will always be better if your weapon has +% damage modifier.

Why?

Maths....

When you are attacking you are either critting or not critting. By adding the Ruby you are VASTLY increasing your "non crit" damage. So if you have a 50% crit chance rate, then 50% of the time you are not critting; your going to be doing more dps.

But why not the emerald, I am also critting 50% of the time too?

Because of diminishing returns. Your crit damage is based on your overall INT and Weapon Damage. So by increasing your weapon damage; you are also increasing the margins that your crit damage is being averaged with.

think of it this way.

A + B = C

If you add more value to A your going to be increasing the value of C.
If you add more value to B your going to be increasing the value of C.

So whats the better option?

1.1k dps + 400% crit Damage = same crit damage
or
1.4k dps + 290% crit Damage = same crit damage

Whatever % crit damage you lose will be restored by the added dps of your weapon. So your crit damage will stay about the same that it was with the emerald.

So now you have strong non-critting attacks and your doing the same crit damage as before. It is far better to put in the ruby, and to stack crit on your other gear.

I can get +100% crit on a amulet, I cant get +300 raw weapon dps anywhere else. However to really get that high dps you also need to have the % modifier to multiply that added +160,160.
Edited by Pillz#1495 on 2/15/2013 11:25 PM PST
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D3up says marquise ruby will give me 12k dps upgrade over marquise emerald, then i decided to try it for myself, buying 3 ruby and the recipe, turns out:

it did add more dps than marquise emerald for me.., but only 5k !


Ugh. What. I guess we can't trust d3up to give us an accurate comparison.
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02/15/2013 08:27 PMPosted by Pillz
The Marq Ruby will always be better if your weapon has +% damage modifier.


I just used an old wand with a radiant star emerald versus radiant star ruby, and the emerald socketed gave more sheet dps (important for archon) than the ruby. It was like 350408 ruby versus 376795 emerald. I didn't unsocket my weapon to test the gems on marquise tier because I feel like I will be wasting 5 mil gold to unsocket, plus I would have to spend 60 mil gold to make a marquise ruby just to test it one time. d3up.com already gave me a negative dps with the marquise ruby socketed.
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So... after further testing...

Even though Marquise Ruby did give me extra 5k sheet dps,

8x Ghom using Marquise Ruby : average kill time 63s

8x Ghom using Marquise Emerald : average kill time 60s

As for elites and white mobs, i dont feel any significance difference

Sooo, i'm not suggesting you guys CM wiz using Marquise Ruby, even though it adds to your sheet dps, because :

02/15/2013 07:27 PMPosted by s8a8i14
ghom dies quicker with emerald


this guy is right :D
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02/15/2013 09:17 PMPosted by jenpeezey
I just used an old wand with a radiant star emerald versus radiant star ruby, and the emerald socketed gave more sheet dps (important for archon) than the ruby. It was like 350408 ruby versus 376795 emerald.

you can't compare like that, these gems simply doesn't scale.

radiant emerald to marquise: 100 % to 110% ( stat increased by 10% )

radiant ruby to marquise: 130 to 160 ( stat increased by 23% )
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Well, I have done about five MP10 uber runs with Marquise Ruby last night before I went to bed.
I have done so many Uber runs in the past so I think I should know which gem "seems" to kill the mobs and elites more quickly.

I am very much convinced that Marquis Ruby kills so much quicker than Marquis Emerald. Enemy just melted as someone said "it feels like using MW electrify".

Obviously, I did not perform an empirical research. It is just based on my simple observation of which one "feels better".

But in conclusion this is what I'm going to say from my experience using both gmes:
Ruby is now as good as Emerald. Before the patch, Emerald was only gem to go in the OS weapon. Now, you can use either of them. They both do equivalent damages. It is still controversial whether Ruby does more than Emerald or vice versa but the damage difference might be negligible.

So, in your stash, if you happened to have more Radiant Rubies laying around, then make Marquise Ruby. If you have more Radiant Emeralds then make Marquise Emerald. You don't have to go spend extra 40+M and another 20M to make Marquis Rubies or vice versa (like I did).

For me, I'm going to stick with Marquise Ruby because I like my weapon showing that it has 1540+ dps. and it could be all mental but I feel like Marquis Ruby does more consistent quicker kill than Emerald.

On a side note, Unstable Anomaly is the best thing that happened with our class. Just awesome. I just replace it with Evocation and I never die anymore. and Uber run makes it even better.
Edited by yodatoy#1838 on 2/16/2013 7:12 AM PST
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I'd lose 17k sheet DPS from a Marq. Ruby according to D3up, but I have 59.5% CC, so not really surprised.
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Beware with d3up.com as Fatamorgana stated, the sheet dps calculation with marquise ruby didn't match with d3up.com (I also got less).

So just hold off in the meantime if you want a tool to compare.
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you can't compare like that, these gems simply doesn't scale.


I bet you that a marquise ruby will give me less sheet dps than my marquise emerald.
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Arkane made a great point after his Ghom testing:

"With Ghom testing, a longer fight such as Ghom, your critical damage will normalize, so Emerald eventually might show better result but for normal farming with white mobs and elites with quicker fights, you don't critic early on so you see initial high damage from Ruby so they die quicker".

But considering damage difference b/w Ruby and Emerald is negligible, it might be again better to go with Ruby b/c most of us are farming with lots of Mobs and Ruby seems to show quicker damage early on.
Edited by yodatoy#1838 on 2/16/2013 8:41 AM PST
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02/16/2013 08:34 AMPosted by yodatoy
But considering damage difference b/w Ruby and Emerald is negligible, it might be again better to go with Ruby b/c most of us are farming with lots of Mobs and Ruby seems to do \ quicker damage early on.


I'm going with whatever gives sheet dps.
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02/16/2013 08:31 AMPosted by jenpeezey
you can't compare like that, these gems simply doesn't scale.


I bet you that a marquise ruby will give me less sheet dps than my marquise emerald.

Given that you only have 250% cd without the emerald and you are no longer using talli amulet, the marquise emerald is a clear choice.

02/16/2013 08:40 AMPosted by jenpeezey
I'm going with whatever gives sheet dps

so you are not considering pvp?
Edited by MacacoCaco#1683 on 2/16/2013 8:44 AM PST
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