Diablo® III

DISCUSSION: Marquis Ruby vs Marquis Emerald.

Can't we test these things with radiant stars?


naw, we can't

radiant emerald to marquise: 100 % to 110% ( stat increased by 10% )

radiant ruby to marquise: 130 to 160 ( stat increased by 23% )


I did a quick mp10 Ghom/Gohm test with radiant emerald vs ruby. NO FOLLOWER.

Radiant emerald killed Ghom/Gohm in 1min 5 seconds.
Radiant Ruby killed Ghom/Gohm in 1 min 10 seconds.

If marquise Ruby increases stats by 23% vs 10% Marquise emerald than I believe Ruby would be better overall. It would be better if I had both gem to test but I'm poor :(

243k DPS
51.5cc
347 CD with gem (I think)

NOTE: Changing from "radiant" emerald to ruby I lose 6K DPS.
Emerald: 243K
Ruby: 237K
Edited by sNAz#1749 on 2/18/2013 5:01 AM PST
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Rubys increase weapon emeralds increase crit damage so you'll have to have a high crit chance for it to be effective.
Rubys will make all attacks higher every time.
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No buddy - As cool as it would be if something other than an Emerald to go in your weapon, the fact remains that 1%CD is worth 3.3x 1 point of min or max damage in terms of sheet DPS once you get above 50% CC. In my instance a Marquise Emerald would be 2x the sheet DPS gain of a Marquise Ruby from a Radiant Star Emerald. Spending ~76M (56M for 2 more Radiant Stars and 20M for the craft itself) for 4.6K more sheet DPS as a pure upgrade is without sacrificing EHP is a no-brainer for me.
Edited by DoctorDoom#1357 on 3/5/2013 11:26 AM PST
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i think ruby would be good for slorak's madness cuz of its low dmg base. But who uses the wand then.
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I prefer an emerald myself.
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For me, I gained 4k more dps from M. Ruby. Ghom MP10 test showed that my avg was 2 sec faster. I briefly went back to M. Emerald but went back to M. Ruby b/c my toon performs better with it. That's just me.
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03/05/2013 11:46 AMPosted by yodatoy
For me, I gained 4k more dps from M. Ruby. Ghom MP10 test showed that my avg was 2 sec faster. I briefly went back to M. Emerald but went back to M. Ruby b/c my toon performs better with it. That's just me.


Unless you mainly run Ubers, Ghom test isn't a good indication of which is more useful, imo. With Deep Freeze you are constantly at +15%CC while farming, which really pushes the dps gains of emerald. This is especially true for KD2 farming.
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And of course, if you ever play with hydra, M Ruby becomes massively better.
Hydra CD being blocked at 50%.
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03/05/2013 11:51 AMPosted by Loroese
Unless you mainly run Ubers, Ghom test isn't a good indication of which is more useful, imo. With Deep Freeze you are constantly at +15%CC while farming, which really pushes the dps gains of emerald. This is especially true for KD2 farming.


but if you are strictly doing KD2 farming then yes, you are right but I also want to be able to help out with Uber. In that case Ruby is better? I certainly don't want to unsocket Emerald every single time which costs me 5m. and M. Ruby kills white mobs and elites as quickly as M. Emerald.
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Yes, for Ubers whichever gives you the highest char sheet dps or best Ghom kill time should be best. That's ignoring the NV stacking process, but if you're in a group then you're probably not using DF anyway, so that won't matter at all.
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I use Frost Hydra to apply Cold Blooded only with minimal attack turns, don't care how much damage it does, would rather have extra 10 CD for Storm Armor, LL, and Disintegrate.
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I think what I'm going to do is do some testing with various levels of both emeralds and rubies to create a graph, which will then hopefully allow me to extrapolate the expected return on a marquise emerald and ruby.

I'm used to testing on Ghom, but as has been pointed out by others here, that may not be the only test that needs to be run. Aside from ubers, can you think of any applicable multi-target tests that can be repeated?
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If you have low cc then the ruby is going to be better, high cc then the emerald is better. the ruby gives you a chance to build dps with attack speed not having to get cc.
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I think what I'm going to do is do some testing with various levels of both emeralds and rubies to create a graph, which will then hopefully allow me to extrapolate the expected return on a marquise emerald and ruby.

I'm used to testing on Ghom, but as has been pointed out by others here, that may not be the only test that needs to be run. Aside from ubers, can you think of any applicable multi-target tests that can be repeated?


You don't need to do testing if you're just looking for char sheet dps. It's very mathematical and only depends on CC, CD, weapon damage, weapon damage%, and total bonus damage from OH and jewelery. Basically use those values in the char sheet DPS formula for each gem and compare the value. The higher value will be better char sheet dps.
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I actually gained 8k dps by using a ruby for my WD but lose on anything I have put it in for my CM wiz. I believe as stated in a previous post its because my manajuma already has cd on it.
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I'm not just looking for char sheet dps. i'm looking for an idea as to which kills faster/easier/more efficiently/generally feels better given different scenarios.

For example, I recently crafted some okay bracers (not godly by any means but okay). But wearing them meant I would have to remove my Lacunis, which in turn meant that I would drop below the 3.00 APS threshold. But char sheet said they should put out more DPS, so I put them on and went for a run.

I didn't really have any problems with anything. But I couldn't really notice that I was killing stuff any faster either. But it just didn't feel as good to me. And I can't really put any hard numbers to the feeling. It might have been the lower return on LoH due to the fewer tics. But other than that, I'm not sure exactly what it was.

Scientific, eh? ;)
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I'm not just looking for char sheet dps. i'm looking for an idea as to which kills faster/easier/more efficiently/generally feels better given different scenarios.

For example, I recently crafted some okay bracers (not godly by any means but okay). But wearing them meant I would have to remove my Lacunis, which in turn meant that I would drop below the 3.00 APS threshold. But char sheet said they should put out more DPS, so I put them on and went for a run.

I didn't really have any problems with anything. But I couldn't really notice that I was killing stuff any faster either. But it just didn't feel as good to me. And I can't really put any hard numbers to the feeling. It might have been the lower return on LoH due to the fewer tics. But other than that, I'm not sure exactly what it was.

Scientific, eh? ;)


Well that's another story altogether because you're changing APS. Ruby vs Emerald is basically just changing your char sheet dps, and nothing else, mathematically speaking. For long, sustained fights, whichever gives a higher char sheet dps should be the clear winner in that case. The only differences would be for shorter fights when the emerald gives more bursty damage while the ruby gives more even damage. That might have some impact against trash, if adding the ruby makes you able to 1-2 shot mobs, but otherwise it will even out in the end.
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02/16/2013 08:49 PMPosted by Loroese
Char Sheet DPS = (([base weapon dmg + ruby dmg] * (1+BD) + offhand dmg + elemental dmg / (1 + %ED) + jewelry dmg affixes) * base weapon aps ) * (1 + cc*cd) * (1 + %ias) * (1 + %ED).


This equation? Could you give an example using real numbers how to apply this? What is BD? %ED?

And would the equation be the same for an emerald, with [ruby damage] == 0 and cd == [(all cd other than gem in weapon socket) + 110]?

Yeah.... If you could translate this, I'd really appreciate it. ;)
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ED = elemental damage, such as from zuni boots, tal's amulet, or SC helm. IAS, Int, and base weapon APS will have the same impact on both since they're multiplicative so you can remove those. BD is bonus damage from weapon, which is 0-50%. I'm also going to rewrite it slightly so the ED is easier to manage.

Base Equation = (([base weapon dmg + ruby dmg] * (1+BD) + offhand dmg + jewelry dmg affixes)*(1+ED) + elemental dmg) * (1 + cc*cd)

Quick example using my CMWW gear:
Weapon = 412 - 796 damage, 0 of it elemental
%BD = 36%
OH = 85 - 341
Other damage = +34 min damage
CC = 49.5% buffed with follower
CD = 332 with emerald, so 232 without

The actual weapon damage is rounded on the tooltip and with a little bit of back calculations you can determine the actual weapon damage to more sig figs but for now let's not worry about that. This means I can re-arrange the equation slightly, and take into account my lack of elemental damage:

Approximate Equation = ((displayed weapon dmg) + [ruby]* (1+BD) + offhand dmg + jewelry dmg affixes) * (1 + cc*[cd+emerald])

You can see I have [ruby] and [emerald] included. Also, we could use average damages for displayed, OH, and jewelery, but it's the same as using total damage and that's a lot easier to do.

Weapon+OH+jewlery = 412+796+85+341+34 = 1668.
[ruby] = 160+160 = 320 for Marq
[emerald] = 110% CD = 1.1 for Marq
1+BD = 1.36

Ruby = (1668+1.36*320)*(1+0.495*2.32) = 4518.5
Emerald = (1668)*(1+0.495*3.42) = 4409.2

Ruby > emerald which means I'd get more dps out of ruby if I have no other CC buffs. My spreadsheet says the same thing.

The calculation is the same with non-black weapons and/or some ED, you just have to use the first equation above.
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