Diablo® III

Witch Doctor Spirit Barrage any good?

Love my witch doctor. think I would be overpowered if I got mana as fast as my wiz got arcane, or my barb got fury.
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so you are saying that all the other class benefits ias but wd has a cap to it? does that even make sense? how is that balanced... obviously this must be addressed and fixed....
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Hey Grim how about the fact that our resource system scales horribly with MP? Can you shed any light on that? I can't believe that was a design choice as well. I'm ok with the IAS penalty (even though every other class benefits from it), but it's pretty obvious that mana was not designed with MP levels in mind. Every class besides WD has an effective way to "gain" their resource. I'm not talking about regen, I mean a "gain" mechanic, like "on hit" or "on crit". Those systems scale perfectly with MP levels, while the poor WD is left out in the cold. We have the red headed stepchild version, the "on kill" gain mechanic. This is completely worthless in high MP, which is why no one uses Grave Injustice past around MP6. It is the equivalent of having life on kill, while everyone else has life on hit and/or life steal, except we're talking about mana instead of hp.

I would just love someone to FINALLY address the scaling problem with MP. It's a huge roadblock that makes WD the most undesirable PVE class to most people. We have an insane gear check once we get to about MP 8, where you either have "x" dps or "x" regen or you're dead. At MP9 and 10, you better have "x" dps AND "x" regen or you're dead. This is in addition to defensive stats. Everyone else just worries about dps and defense (with the exception of Wiz but they get to stack IAS).
Edited by MikeHoncho#1169 on 2/21/2013 4:17 PM PST
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02/21/2013 04:08 PMPosted by MikeHoncho
I would just love someone to FINALLY address the scaling problem with MP. It's a huge roadblock that makes WD the most undesirable PVE class to most people. We have an insane gear check once we get to about MP 8, where you either have "x" dps or "x" regen or you're dead. At MP9 and 10, you better have "x" dps AND "x" regen or you're dead. This is in addition to defensive stats. Everyone else just worries about dps and defense (with the exception of Wiz but they get to stack IAS).


Hey, this issue isn't actually unique to the WD. DH's face similar problems (the discussion has been ongoing since 1.07 and higher MPs became a good place to be). While, we do have "hatred generators" most of them generate 3 hatred per attack, while the hatred spenders, cost anywhere between 10 (not very good on high MP) and 50 hatred. Simply, while the curve might be harder for WD's, we face the similar issue of our resource generation not scaling with Attack speed.

Lastly, we have to balance 2 different resources, 95% of DH's will be using 1-2 passives, and 1 active skill SOLELY for resource generation, and can often be resource starved. This is somewhat different to the barb, who uses into the fray, solves all his resource problems, and gets 15%Ed and 3% crit for his time.
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02/21/2013 02:58 PMPosted by SKORPIQN
Are you aware that Toad of Hugeness is completely pointless skill?


Take that back sir. The skill is visually stimulating, it is not meant to be a dmg dealer. My only complaint is that the toad doesn't swallow in brawling.

What really needs to be addressed is WD stats on bows.
Why do they even appear when quivers are "DH only"????
There are 2 socket manticores that are completely worthless because they roll int/WD skill.
Reduced resource cost of firebomb on bows????

The devs should be temporarily banned for trolling until they fix this. If they meant for WD to use bows sometimes, then at least let a bro use a quiver.
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Don't get me started on resource costs for Monk.

With my Barb, I have a perpetual full tank thanks to Frenzy but I can't spam skills due to cooldown times.

With my Monk, most of the time is spent spamming generators to refill the tank.
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What really needs to be addressed is WD stats on bows.
Why do they even appear when quivers are "DH only"????


Itemisation has fundamental flaws in this game. It's like RNG rules over everything including what affix goes on Class weps.
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And everybody wonders why blue posts are rare. The guy was trying to offer advice relevant to the question (which you would think should be a little more valuable than just any joe shmoe) and the thread is hijacked by complaints and ranting. There's an appropriate place for complaints and suggestions and this is not it.
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02/21/2013 04:55 PMPosted by esorbma
And everybody wonders why blue posts are rare. The guy was trying to offer advice relevant to the question (which you would think should be a little more valuable than just any joe shmoe) and the thread is hijacked by complaints and ranting. There's an appropriate place for complaints and suggestions and this is not it.

Try that. See where it gets you. In the mean time shut it.
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I've found that an attack speed of 1.88 is ideal for mana usage when you have 4 piece zunis. i dont want them to change anything about the WD's mana regen, thats why there's so many passive and items to deal with it. Paper damage isnt everything. you might lose 10k damage to get 4 piece zunis, but when you can throw a steady stream of bears, your damage will be way higher. L2P.
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spirit barrage is freakin' great!

use it with bears and the blood ritual passive. it's the only two mana-spending attacks you'll ever need.
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02/21/2013 03:13 PMPosted by Dikembe
We’re aware of the unique resource challenge that Witch Doctors face, and how that can affect the desire for IAS. I would say that IAS is still valuable for Witch Doctors, but that value scales heavily with effective resource management, and that’s intentional.


The problem is that resource management is very hard to find on gear.

Take mana cost reduction to Zombie Charger, for example. This resource management affix actually scales with IAS (unlike most other mana bonuses) and Witch Doctors would never complain about the mana cost of Zombie Bears if they had 3 or 4 pieces of gear with this affix (the way Wizards stack Arcane Power on Crit). But the problem is that this affix only rolls on Mara's amulets, Stone of Jordan / Skull Grasp rings, and mojos/shields/crossbows, and quite rarely at that, so the chances of finding this gear yourself is next to none, making the AH prices huge.
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Got to love retards complain before get facts right, APoC only roll on wand, wizard hat and source, that's only 3 slots, less than WD's and 2 of which being biggest DPS slot, yet wizards all forced to get them and I don't see them !@#$%ing about it.
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02/21/2013 04:05 PMPosted by GideonJura
so you are saying that all the other class benefits ias but wd has a cap to it? does that even make sense? how is that balanced... obviously this must be addressed and fixed....


Then they'll have to nerf all the WD's skills, because the class design is balanced around a slowly generating resource.

WD are easily the toughest of the range characters, and arguably even harder to kill than the melee characters, does huge amounts of "effective" DPS in a short space of time (even if your paper DPS is lower), due to higher weapon damage multipliers and good skill synergy.

A WD is efficient in low MPs, unkillable in high MPs, and brokenly overpowered in PvP. WD is also by far the easiest class to play in hardcore.

People so often take things for granted with their own class, they don't see what they're missing until they try something else. :)
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I use SB for single target spam or elites, when spaming bears isn't effective. It only works if you use Rush of Essence with Blood Ritual and have a base mana regen of 75+. (easy to get with zunimassa set bonus 20 regen and a mojo or knife with 10+ mana regen). If you do then it scales with IAS and 425% extra damage takes my 160k to 680k dps indefinately. Adding in GF and SH and Sacrifice Provoke the pack you I can easily get over 1m dps with this skill.

I use it almost exclusively to solo kill MP6 ubers. I also have two items with +12% extra damage for a total 24% extra SB damage.
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thanks for the response. i will now make my own thread about this. and also, first time for me getting a blue response. cool
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02/21/2013 02:36 PMPosted by Grimiku
We’re aware of the unique resource challenge that Witch Doctors face, and how that can affect the desire for IAS. I would say that IAS is still valuable for Witch Doctors, but that value scales heavily with effective resource management, and that’s intentional.


Dropping in for a brief comment and question.

First it's not just Witch doctors that have a hurting for heavy IAS gear a lot of builds just aren't capable of the same "effectivess" as other builds due to resource (generation/re-generation). Obviously if anyone has taken the time way, WAY back near launch there was a developer blog stating why they felt that having characters resource strapped so they have to make conscience decisions based on their preferred builds. For example my preferred build is centered around meteor a high damage high cost skill that doesn't have sufficient proc rate mechanics to allow me to spam it like other skills when geared for high APS (attacks per second). This isn't a single class issue.

Well we are way past launch, and what developer would want their maximum level rpg character resource strapped when fully decked out in end-game gear? Please take this as constructively as possible, Resource mechanic "Restrictions" shouldn't be AN ISSUE when you reach end-game area's. Yeah we get it Inferno is supposed to be even harder than hell was in diablo 2.

Is the resource mechanic ideal for each class? No, by definition the most popular builds are centered around "breaking" that lone mechanic? Aka, Barb (Infinite fury Wotb barb's 5 different types.) Wizard Archon, Critical mass (et wizard) Demon hunter (infinte strafe, massive ias ball lighting, spray of teeth, legacy nat's users) Monk (Tempest rush, standard cookie cutter) and finally the Witch doctor, ( low mana cost bear's, zero dog, massive army,) All of those builds have been pretty much agreed upon as the go-to spec's for each class, This isn't an "existential" breakdown of game mechanic's related to a wonderfully developed game, this is a huge portion of the population making an actively conscience decision basely around specific game limitation. Maybe it's time you re-addressed this game limitation?
Edited by Harrowing#1449 on 2/21/2013 7:51 PM PST
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Posts: 1,024
There isn't a problem with the WD resource system. The main problem is how people play the WD.

I am proud of the fact that WDs probly complain the least of any class and aren't catered to every patch. Lets keep it that way.

/THREAD
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Okay, So I'm not at lvl 60. But I have no problem with mana, my tank regens in like 2-5 seconds so I rarely have to wait. I find my WD is the one I die the least on, and it is the most enjoyable. The Wiz is next, but that's because I prefer being able to use both ranged an melee attacks. I do find it strange that WD doesn't have any mana gain attacks, when the other classes do. But I also was pissed when I noticed that my DH's stronger attacks ate my hatred up. But I can say the same about how Barbs' mana drains away. each class has it's advantages and it's dissadvantages.
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