Diablo® III

How does Frenzy interact with IAS?

i saw someone dual-wielding with frenzy recently and it got me thinking; how does the 75% attack speed for frenzy work with IAS from items/DW?
is it
(attacks per second)*(1 + IAS from items + IAS from DW)*(1 + IAS from Frenzy)

or
(attacks per second)*(! + IAS from items + IAS from DW + IAS from Frenzy)

I had thought it was the second one, which would make comparatively less effective as IAS increases. Thoughts?
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%ias is additive.

So it would be the second formula.
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The attack speed from frenzy ONLY affects frenzy itself if that's what you are asking. The IAS gained has no affect on other skills like HoTA WW RLTW...ect. And yes it is additive on top of your base attack speed per weapon in a dual wield setup.
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i know IAS is additive, but the tooltip doesn't specify that Frenzy actually grants IAS, or if it has its own special thing. If it is in fact the second formula then what's the point of using frenzy?
Here's a bit of math:
if barbarian A and barbarian B both dual wield weapons with 1 attack per second ( i know that's low but it makes the math simpler) and A chooses frenzy and B chooses Cleave with Broad Sweep:
%dmg * atk/s * (1 + IAS from items + IAS from DW + IAS from Frenzy) = %dmg/s
1.10 * 1.0 * (1 + 0 + .15 + .75) = 1.10 * 1.90 = 2.09
1.75 * 1.0 * (1 + 0 + .15 + .0) = 1.75 * 1.15 = 2.0125
frenzy is slightly higher, but watch what happens when both add a bit of attack speed from items

1.10 * 1.0 * (1 + .15 + .15 + .75 ) = 1.10 * 2.05 = 2.255 (+.165 or a 7.9% increase from the previous value)
1.75 * 1.0 * (1 + .15 + .15 + 0) = 1.75 * 1.30 = 2.275 ( + .2625 or a 13% increase from the previous value)

ok, 2 important caveats
1) These values assume that the user is always at full frenzy,
2) These values don't account for frenzy runes because Sidearm is unreliable and Maniac adds a percentage to all skills which stacks additivly with things like Bearserker Rage, meaning that the damage increase from Maniac runs into similar problems to the attack speed increase from Frenzy.
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Local Barb mechanics researcher here...

1. Frenzy attack speed bonus only applies to Frenzy itself (contrary to Maniac damage bonus which is applied to all damaging skills including Frenzy itself).

2. Frenzy attack speed bonus is a multiplicative bonus.

Example 1.20 aps weapon and you have 4 gear slots with 9% ASI (+36% ASI) and 5 stacks Frenzy (+75%) is not going to make you swing at 1.20 * (1 + 0.36+ 0.75) = 2.532 aps but instead you´ll swing at 1.20 * 1.36 * 1.75 = 2.856 aps.
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I can't even begin to describe how much I detest the misleading language in the "increases attack speed" calculations..."increases attack speed by 9%" on gear in this game should instead be called "increases attack speed bonus by .09"...I have a similar gripe with "critical hit damage increased by x%" as well, but I digress.
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2. Frenzy attack speed bonus is a multiplicative bonus.


http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3660206725
The Art of War: Barbarian

There are two main categories for attack speed. One is the modified weapon speed. The base weapon speed increased by all speed increasing affixes on the weapon. The second is the sum of all other attack speed increasing factors, even the dw bonus. Those two speed modifiers are multiplied for the overall speed.

Example: Hoggar the barbarian wields two 1.3 aps axes with each increased speed by 20% on the weapon. He also has 10% speed on other items and he uses Frenzy (+75%) to attack.

Actual Weapon speed: 1.3*1.2=1.56
Overall Speed: 1.56*(1+0.1+0.15+0.75)=3.12 attacks per second with maximal Frenzy stack.
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I just retested it.

With no weapon and no gear ASI, at 5 stacks, you get a relatively steady 33 frames between ticks (that´s 58/aps). Now with a 10% IAS blade of the warlord (1.43 aps), 53% gear ASI and 5 stacks, I got 15 frames between ticks, sometimes 14.

additive = 1.43 * 2.28 = 3.2604 aps
multiplicative = 1.43 * 1.53 * 1.75 = 3.828825 aps

additive 58 / 3.2604 aps = 17.789 frames <- nope
multiplicative 58 / 3.828825 aps = 15.148 frames <-this one seems to be close enough

Sometimes the game rounds weirdly and sometimes you don´t get a steady frames per tick due to ingame framerate jumping, but still. Now I´ll ask you to give me a test result that proves it´s an additive effect and not multiplicative one :/
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 2/20/2013 3:13 PM PST
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I just retested it.

With no weapon and no gear ASI, at 5 stacks, you get a relatively steady 33 frames between ticks (that´s 58/aps). Now with a 10% IAS blade of the warlord (1.43 aps), 53% gear ASI and 5 stacks, I got 15 frames between ticks, sometimes 14.

additive = 1.43 * 2.28 = 3.2604 aps
multiplicative = 1.43 * 1.53 * 1.75 = 3.828825 aps

additive 58 / 3.2604 aps = 17.789 frames <- nope
multiplicative 58 / 3.828825 aps = 15.148 frames <-this one seems to be close enough

Sometimes the game rounds weirdly and sometimes you don´t get a steady frames per tick due to ingame framerate jumping, but still. Now I´ll ask you to give me a test result that proves it´s an additive effect and not multiplicative one :/


Thank for confirm.

I think you are right, because my dps show Frenzy+mainc give 224% dps modifier. (mean real dps = my buffed dps x 224%)

base on math:
110% Frenzy's damage x 1.75 Frenzy's speed x (1+ 20%/1.15 mainc buff)
= 110% x 1.75 x 117.4%
= 226%
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I just retested it.

With no weapon and no gear ASI, at 5 stacks, you get a relatively steady 33 frames between ticks (that´s 58/aps). Now with a 10% IAS blade of the warlord (1.43 aps), 53% gear ASI and 5 stacks, I got 15 frames between ticks, sometimes 14.

additive = 1.43 * 2.28 = 3.2604 aps
multiplicative = 1.43 * 1.53 * 1.75 = 3.828825 aps

additive 58 / 3.2604 aps = 17.789 frames <- nope
multiplicative 58 / 3.828825 aps = 15.148 frames <-this one seems to be close enough

Sometimes the game rounds weirdly and sometimes you don´t get a steady frames per tick due to ingame framerate jumping, but still. Now I´ll ask you to give me a test result that proves it´s an additive effect and not multiplicative one :/


I have just tested frenzy by video analysis.
It is additive.
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I just retested it.

With no weapon and no gear ASI, at 5 stacks, you get a relatively steady 33 frames between ticks (that´s 58/aps). Now with a 10% IAS blade of the warlord (1.43 aps), 53% gear ASI and 5 stacks, I got 15 frames between ticks, sometimes 14.

additive = 1.43 * 2.28 = 3.2604 aps
multiplicative = 1.43 * 1.53 * 1.75 = 3.828825 aps

additive 58 / 3.2604 aps = 17.789 frames <- nope
multiplicative 58 / 3.828825 aps = 15.148 frames <-this one seems to be close enough

Sometimes the game rounds weirdly and sometimes you don´t get a steady frames per tick due to ingame framerate jumping, but still. Now I´ll ask you to give me a test result that proves it´s an additive effect and not multiplicative one :/


I have just tested frenzy by video analysis.
It is additive.

Can you post your results in a more descriptive matter? Should post them in the "barbarian game mechanics" thread so they are sure to catch nubtros eye. The thread can be found here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12329703286
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