Diablo® III

APoC why do we need so much?

wish i knew quantitavely. i suppose there's no way to really test since we don't have access to a 1.06 realm.

as it has been suggested however by others above, given the sheer amount of time it takes to whittle down hit points on higher MP, it's much easier to establish a full wind up to refill arcane power which is probably the biggest contributing factor for me to go from 20 to 10APoC. i'll also agree to earlier comments and note that my expericence with fast moving single targets can be a bit rough if frost nova doesn't hit initially.

however, the trade off for me was going from 800AR, 5200k Armour, 130k dps unbuffed to over 200k dps buffed (despite 680-90AR) after altering skills, passives and gear. that's a big jump i never would have been able to imagine otherwise pre 1.07, but i'll take the reduced kill times and the challenge of running down fat mages and succubi any day.
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OK, I'm taking the pepsi challenge when I get home, got CHEAP OH for the tryout, raised my DPS with this gear by about 20k over my standard setup, with 63CC I believe it will be OK, but we'll see soon enough...
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@Ossian:

thanks for suggesting to run mw/conduit to help smooth out a 10APoC build.
swapped in old non-APoC, went glass cannon and am now farming with this set up.


It helps out more than you'd expect, doesn't it?

Robert, I don't know what to tell you. I've run 10 APOC extensively across all acts and I find it works very, very well.
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I recently upgraded from 18 APOC to 20; it made a noticeable difference for me. Much quicker windup, more teleporting, everything just feels more smooth.

So, this thread makes no sense to me.
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I recently upgraded from 18 APOC to 20; it made a noticeable difference for me. Much quicker windup, more teleporting, everything just feels more smooth.

So, this thread makes no sense to me.
Because you're considering the pros of 20APoC. No one, to my knowledge, in this thread is saying 20APoC is worse or that 18APoC is as good as 20APoC. More APoC is always better. Rather this thread is largely about realizing that 10APoC is quite functional at full windup... FULL windup. ;) That really is worth emphasizing, since 10APoC is still slower at getting started than 20APoC. And that's not a trivial difference. However, unlike 1.0.6, you're not getting missed casts at full windup, which just killed a CM/WW wizard's DPS multiplier. Thus, 10APoC is functional for those that are okay with the slower wind up phase.
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I like this 10 apoc thing. I'm glad people will be able to make the jump to mempo without spending an arm and a leg. Getting to 20 apoc now can be a two step process of getting mempo first for all the people who are eager to use a red gem for high mp exp.
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I believe the results are 10 APoC is perfectly fine, but similar to 40 CC, you should get more if you can.
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Gona stock up on <9APOC chant forces. I have a feeling this is going to get red hot.

^_^
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The reason I even noticed it was because of the price differentials for Force's on the AH.

A 220 average damage Force with APoC is over 100m
A 280+ average damage Force without APoC is well under 100m

A 280+ average damage Force with APoC is 500m+ to Billions.

Or at least that was the case when I first created this thread.

IIRC after this thread, pricing has changed on the AH.

The Force I have on at the time of this post is 202 Average Damage, but has APoC.
I have another one with 286 Average Damage and slightly better stats all round, but does not have APoC and it cost only 67m. Stick APoC on it and it becomes a 500m-1b Off Hand, since 286 average damage off hands are towards the top end of the average damage scale.
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Has anyone considered the possibility that we may have "new breakpoint" requirements, rather than new APOC requirements? I'm curious as to how 20 APOC now functions under the 2.74 IAS point.
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Something is going on with apoc. I can spam meteors like no tomorrow with only19 and no prodigy no WW feeding - just meteors feed. many of you have seen it. It was not that way post 1.0.5 trust me. Many of us including me blew a ton of gold on meteor gears to make them work then they nerfed procs and made even 30 apoc useless.

Where is shand when you need him..
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 2/22/2013 1:46 PM PST
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That's what I was thinking Aimless. Homeboy could end this debate in his sleep.
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Something is going on with apoc. I can spam meteors like no tomorrow with only19 and no prodigy no WW feeding - just meteors feed. many of you have seen it. It was not that way post 1.0.5 trust me. Many of us including me blew a ton of gold on meteor gears to make them work then they nerfed procs and made even 30 apoc useless.

Where is shand when you need him..


I can SNS Meteor without even having to run Prism anymore.

Like you said, even Meteor feed APoC a lot if you can feed them down fast enough or more importantly, there are enough targets left to hit, as they tend to not last very long under a sustained Meteor barrage.

Current build only has cold snap because I was carrying a much lower level player and I was doing Keeps 1, 2 & 3 into Ghom.
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Something is going on with apoc. I can spam meteors like no tomorrow with only19 and no prodigy no WW feeding - just meteors feed. many of you have seen it. It was not that way post 1.0.5 trust me. Many of us including me blew a ton of gold on meteor gears to make them work then they nerfed procs and made even 30 apoc useless.

Where is shand when you need him..


SHHHHHHH!

Lol you found out huh? My meteor spam (casts before default attack) have basically doubled from 1.06 to 1.07 This is a fact. Still not even close for meteor shower though, everything but it seems for that skill.
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02/22/2013 12:58 AMPosted by DethAxe
OK, I'm taking the pepsi challenge when I get home, got CHEAP OH for the tryout, raised my DPS with this gear by about 20k over my standard setup, with 63CC I believe it will be OK, but we'll see soon enough...


OK, I'm a believer now -- running my Mp8 SNS D/E farming for two days with current setup, NO AP ISSUES AT ALL (with 63CC). Even single target is no sweat. Love it!!
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02/22/2013 01:24 PMPosted by Whisper
A 280+ average damage Force without APoC is well under 100m


mine was 40m, 294 average damage, about 15k paper DPS bump over APOC...
Edited by DethAxe#1328 on 2/23/2013 3:17 AM PST
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Something is going on with apoc. I can spam meteors like no tomorrow with only19 and no prodigy no WW feeding - just meteors feed. many of you have seen it. It was not that way post 1.0.5 trust me. Many of us including me blew a ton of gold on meteor gears to make them work then they nerfed procs and made even 30 apoc useless.

Where is shand when you need him..


SHHHHHHH!

Lol you found out huh? My meteor spam (casts before default attack) have basically doubled from 1.06 to 1.07 This is a fact. Still not even close for meteor shower though, everything but it seems for that skill.


dude, you're like 29 APOC and -5 meteor...
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Something is going on with apoc. I can spam meteors like no tomorrow with only19 and no prodigy no WW feeding - just meteors feed. many of you have seen it. It was not that way post 1.0.5 trust me. Many of us including me blew a ton of gold on meteor gears to make them work then they nerfed procs and made even 30 apoc useless.

Where is shand when you need him..


Wow if this is true it will change our whole gearing strategy lol I hope it's true, will be so much easier to gear.
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I recently upgraded from 18 APOC to 20; it made a noticeable difference for me. Much quicker windup, more teleporting, everything just feels more smooth.

So, this thread makes no sense to me.


Well, I made that upgrade prior to 1.07.

I guess I have to eat my hat. I just ran most of an alk route with 10 APoC and it's definitely playable. It feels a little slow to warm up but not terrible. A rough estimate is that 10 APoC in 1.07 feels like 16-17 in 1.06.

10 APOC used to be completely unplayable. No doubt at all something has changed.

Edit: just realized... I tested 10 APOC with 400 some LOH instead of 850. Didn't even notice. Whiskey tango foxtrot?
Edited by Worloega#1821 on 2/23/2013 12:53 PM PST
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02/22/2013 01:24 PMPosted by Whisper
The reason I even noticed it was because of the price differentials for Force's on the AH.


Thanks, by the way, for checking it out. I'd have never thought to do so after having a 15 APOC build totally crater in 1.05. You've discovered one of the most important things about CM/SNS builds in the last few months.
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