Diablo® III

Instead of PtV -- Consider more Attack Speed

OK so before you think I've lost my mind, let's consider how both things work.

Pierce the Veil (PtV) - You gain 20% more DPS, and spend 30% more mana when you cast spells.

Attack Speed (AS or APS) - You speed up your attacks per second but receive no increase in DPS -- unless you have mana to support the higher attack speed.
Since you are able to use PtV and effectively surrender 30% of your mana, this article assumes your build can handle additional AS, and fully support its effective DPS. So projected DPS increases from AS are fully realized for the purpose of this discussion.

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Note: Before we venture further in this discussion, this article assumes your build has a mana surplus e.g. you have more mana then you need to effectively use your skills. If you in fact have too little mana to use your skills then please see my other article Attack Speed vs Mana Usage (Bears Example) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7392969555 .
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So let's use my numbers to show what I am talking about.

PtV 20% x 180K DPS = 36,000 DPS increase

Attack Speed from 1, 9% IAS item = 13,500 DPS increase. Another IAS item at 9% IAS = 27,000 DPS increase in total. So now I have added two IAS gear items at 9% each and we will have an effective DPS increase of 27,000 DPS. Add a third IAS item and you can easily see that you can equal or exceed the DPS increase from PtV.

It is import to remember that AS uses up mana in at least the increment of the AS speed. So 9% AS will cost you at least 9% more mana per second depending on what skills you are using and whether or not the skills are subject to AS. If the skill is not subject to AS, e.g. Soul Havest, Acid Rain, etc. then you will gain no DPS benefit from more AS and would benefit more from PtV.

However, if you heavily use a primary skill or use a skill set that benefits from AS e.g. Zero Dogs, Proc Doctor, SB/WoS, then stacking AS may in fact be more beneficial than using PtV. Also what's nice about AS is that you stack it per gear piece. So how much you use is up to you.

With PtV you either have 30% excess mana or you don't. It is an all or nothing skill. However the benefit of PtV is that there is no gear to buy, and it is an instant gratification DPS multiplier.

I just thought I would share this as it popped into my head and it needed some place to go.

All comments welcomed.
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it all depends on your play style.

you are assuming you can just put +9% IAS on 3 items without any side effect.
so instead of my 6 property items i'll magically find 7 property items similar to my existing ones but with +9% IAS on them for free on the AH. or the property of 9% IAS will replace something on one of my items, e.g. INT. of course PtV also has a cost involved, the usage of one passive which can be quite valuable in some cases.

of course i'd love to find items with godly rolls of IAS, CC, vit, int, resist all. though im sure that would break anyone bank account. so adding IAS will likely cause other costs. quite possibly you'll drop that 8% dmg/manna efficiency lost from PtV by dropping stats on items(1.2/1.3).

for a long time i actually factored out IAS. AC is calculated on the dmg of one hit, and spamming it doesnt stack the DoT effect. i wanted the dmg/hit not IAS when i used skorn with acid cloud to 1-shot screens of mobs. IAS does nothing, DPS means nothing, you want more dmg/hit so 1-shot stronger mobs and your only limit is manna. so i'd favor a higher int glove than an IAS glove that would give more DPS, because if i used it the AC would actually do much less dmg.

personally when farming i use AC and toads (crazy LoH can turn you into a tank), then switch between PtV and VQ depending on manna needs. low MP is more efficient for GI & GF which gives plenty of manna. as the MP lvl goes up then the ratio of shots fired/mob death goes down and manna problems come meaning a need for the switch.

of course with a 0ZD its the opposite, you may favour more IAS even if it costs total DPS(from loss of int/CC/CD etc on items) as it means faster globes.

there are numerous factors depending on build/playstyle.

anyway, for most normal builds if you're losing more than 8% dmg/hit by adding in that 3 items of +9% IAS gear then you're losing manna efficiency.
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02/14/2013 11:02 PMPosted by Sijar
so i'd favor a higher int glove than an IAS glove that would give more DPS, because if i used it the AC would actually do much less dmg.


Which was my point in my article. If you use AC as your main attack, AS is almost worthless to you as you can't stack AC, so what's the point of speeding it up?

However for someone with an AS based attack skill like WoS, AS might be a better alternative than PtV.

I agree with you that finding the right gear to boost AS/DPS might be difficult. My point is to present an alternative to PtV, and to get people thinking about it.
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Pets!
If you are a pet doctor.....

Pets get the 20% damage bonus, and the 30% mana cost is trivial as one rarely recasts them (assuming not a 0 dogger)

Remember to factor in pet damage.
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So what your saying is:

+30% IAS ~= +30% dmg and +30% mana cost

While pierce the veil is:

Passive = +20% dmg and +30% mana cost
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02/15/2013 04:02 AMPosted by Odif
Pets get the 20% damage bonus, and the 30% mana cost is trivial as one rarely recasts them (assuming not a 0 dogger)


If you are a pet doctor, and you use thorns, PtV is a good match. Other pet builds, depends on the skills.

So what your saying is:

+30% IAS ~= +30% dmg and +30% mana cost

While pierce the veil is:

Passive = +20% dmg and +30% mana cost


Yes I am more or less saying that, with the caveat that to get damage from AS you have to actually use a skill that increases damage when used with AS e.g. primary skills, WoS, bears, etc.

If your skills do not increase in damage with AS, then obviously you should choose PtV instead.
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Thanks for this. I always like reading stuff that thinks outside of the box when it comes to Wd mechanics.

Does the damage comparison take into account that you won't be constantly spamming a damage spell? I mean that PtV gives an instant damage bonus that can be matched with constant usage of the same skill modified with AS based on what you're saying.

Generally I'm stutter stepping when casting bears. Only time I can think that I'm keeping a constant stream going is when I have BBV Rain dance up. I assume there'd be a little less damage over time from AS vs PtV (assuming you have enough mana) using this tactic?
Edited by Tworiv1dra#1537 on 2/15/2013 8:23 AM PST
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02/15/2013 08:12 AMPosted by Tworiv1dra
Generally I'm stutter stepping when casting bears. Only time I can think that I'm keeping a constant stream going is when I have BBV Rain dance up. I assume there'd be a little less damage over time from AS vs PtV (assuming you have enough mana) using this tactic?


Bears are probably not the best spell to speed up 30%. Reason being that bears need some aiming to be really effective and extra AS may not help your aim much. On the other hand, bears and PtV don't like each other either, so it is a tough call between the two.

Most bear users use some AS, until they reach a point where it becomes ineffective, then it's just DPS and eHP after that. In high MP, very few pure bear builds will have PtV.

I am not suggesting a WD with excess mana on their hands use 30% more AS. I am saying, "Instead of PtV, maybe some more AS might fit your build better?"

Edit: Stutter stepping makes no difference on the damage done. The bears are cast faster with more AS, if PtV is used the bears hit harder.
Edited by skywalkerfx#1247 on 2/15/2013 8:50 AM PST
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