Diablo® III

Marquise Ruby on MH for Added Rend Damage

Since Rend's damage is based on the main hand (correct me if I am wrong here), would I benefit more if I replaced my emerald with a Marquise Ruby since I'm starting to fall in love with Rend as an extra source of AoE damage and jacking up the base DPS of my MH would give my Rend even stronger damage?

Calling our resident stats/research guy Nubtro and our WW + Rend champion Wayneold! Please comment. :-)

Thanks guys. I want to make sure before I invest on a marquise ruby that I can't sell on the AH if I make a mistake. lol

Interesting enough, I crunched the Rend numbers on d3rawr and it shows significant increase for normal damage but a negligible increase for crit damage. I don't know if I'm doing the number crunching right. :-)
Edited by MasterPUA#6728 on 2/24/2013 7:17 PM PST
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I want to know too :P

I thought that I would be benefit from Emerald coz of 100% cc using HoTA. But after reviewed the skill dmg in d3rawr, it seems the dmg is similar but the dmg range is closer, so a more consistent dmg which is better for life steal. Also, other skills also has benefit from higher base dmg. So looking forward for expert analysis and make decision.
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Here is some of Nubtro's research on the topic:

I also run without a Fury generator recently (WW+RLTW+OPKS+Rend) but anyway...

Your WW after Rend should always use the OH tick frequency for the duriation of channeling until the next Rend.

RLTW while WWing is impossible to determine because WW does indeed alternate what is considered last weapon swung for RLTW (WW frequency stays the same but it changes for RLTW) - what I found out is that the game uses the aps value displayed in the character screen details for determining which weapon aps is used for RLTW.

What I mean is of course it uses the exact non-rounded value but the frequency is determined by which weapon aps was shown last before you cast Sprint.

Here´s some of the posts about the research
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497?page=9#165
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497?page=9#167
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497?page=9#169

The last one contains the major info. My bad for not adding it to the first post for such a long time.

EDIT: added the "RLTW while channeling WW" info to the first post. I´ll retest if Rend always resets back to MH displayed aps.

EDIT2: Yep Rend always stops to swing with MH so the next WW will always tick at the OH frequency. Sprint click after Rend but before WW click should tick at MH frequency but the next Sprint frequency may change while you channel WW, depending on what weapon aps was displayed last before clicking Sprint.


Rend always stops to swing with the main hand, therefore the added average damage from your Marquise Ruby will be a huge advantage when the damage from Rend does not crit....however, when it does crit the damage differential is nearly a wash (because you sacrifice crit dmg for average dmg).

In the end I would advocate the use of the Ruby simply because it will increase the non-crit damage of main hand attacks such as Sprint, Overpower, and Rend while keeping their crit damages relatively the same....keep in mind without me playing I can't test this out and am speaking plainly from trying to work the math out.....and I am by no means the greatest game mechanics reference out there.....until I am shown otherwise though, I would use a Ruby....the only disadvantage of a ruby I can think of is that the crit's from WW that are generated from your offhand will be smaller because of the smaller multiplier and no average damage enhancement....but it has been shown that your offhand WW damage contributes a small fraction of your overall damage, so I belief the benefit of the Ruby is worth it overall.

If someone has conflicting information please let me know.....I don't want to give out wrong information.
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Sadly, because I am using an axe with +9aps for MH and an EF OH, My MH is actually faster than my OH so it's not beneficial for me that I always swing with my OH after casting Rend. :-(
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02/24/2013 09:16 PMPosted by MasterPUA
Sadly, because I am using an axe with +9aps for MH and an EF OH, My MH is actually faster than my OH so it's not beneficial for me that I always swing with my OH after casting Rend. :-(


You don't always swing with your offhand after casting Rend.....Rend swings your main hand....you have a better situation here, this is on EDIT 2 of Nubtro's reference:

EDIT2: Yep Rend always stops to swing with MH so the next WW will always tick at the OH frequency. Sprint click after Rend but before WW click should tick at MH frequency but the next Sprint frequency may change while you channel WW, depending on what weapon aps was displayed last before clicking Sprint.


No more sad faces....this benefits you.
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Sadly, because I am using an axe with +9aps for MH and an EF OH, My MH is actually faster than my OH so it's not beneficial for me that I always swing with my OH after casting Rend. :-(


You don't always swing with your offhand after casting Rend.....Rend swings your main hand....you have a better situation here, this is on EDIT 2 of Nubtro's reference:

EDIT2: Yep Rend always stops to swing with MH so the next WW will always tick at the OH frequency. Sprint click after Rend but before WW click should tick at MH frequency but the next Sprint frequency may change while you channel WW, depending on what weapon aps was displayed last before clicking Sprint.


No more sad faces....this benefits you.


Ohh is that so? Yaay! And here I am trying to sell my Axe to replace it with a mace. I am a genius theory crafter without even knowing it. lol

So all I need to do is sprint first after casting rend then ww and I should be doing the most damage I possibly can? Awesome!
Edited by MasterPUA#6728 on 2/24/2013 9:57 PM PST
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Come to think of it, Increasing my MH weapon's base dps would also increase the benefit I get from my cold soj! :-)
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Your question is not easy to answer. Here´s an analysis from Iria about this matter.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7811342220?page=2#28

The best thing you can do is to learn how to and then calculate/compare your damage yourself.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 3/6/2013 3:17 AM PST
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@Nubtro

For your critical hits emeralds would be slightly better, but what about the 21.5% of the time that you don't critically hit? Would the average damage of main hand attacks such as Sprint, Rend and Overpower that benefit (quite substantially) from the Ruby be able to overcome the slight advantage emeralds have in your critical hit category?
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Wayne the calcs take that into account. "Quite substantially" can be misleading. Yes the base damage that gets boosted by all other multipliers is higher, but with high crit chance you can get a modifier that outperforms the benefit from base weapon damage.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 3/6/2013 3:16 AM PST
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Sorry to make you do all the extra work.....I see where I got turned around now. Thanks.

I did some number crunching on my own, however I am too lazy to type it all out, this is what I found...

Ruby increases non-critical attacks by about 10-15%, but it also reduces damage from critical attacks by 6-10% (all rounded numbers just from what I felt like calculating....no real basis).

However, because of the tendency for attacks to critically strike it is beneficial to use an Emerald since that situation will occur on an average somewhere in the range of 200-300% more often. (Once again, just calculated using a bunch of rounded, easy numbers....it would be simple for someone to fall out of this range, but I would think 80-90% of barbs would fall within it).

That is my TL;DR version of what I came up with....Thank you for giving me access to your math....I hope I recreated it correctly.
Edited by Wayneold#1685 on 2/25/2013 12:19 PM PST
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I had to recalc things because I added the Ruby damage without taking "+x% damage" into account the last time.

Skorn base weapon damage: 507-613
+286 minimum
+381 maximum
+150 minimum (ruby)
+150 maximu (ruby)
+50% damage

min weapon damage = (507 + 286 + 150) * 1.5 = 1414.5
max weapon damage = (507 + 286 + 1 + 381 + 150) * 1.5 = 1987.5
average weapon damage = (1414.5 + 1987.5) / 2 = 1701 (1476 without ruby)

6% Soj, 3000 strength, Battle Rage up, 85% crit chance, +550% crit damage:
Ruby normal = 1701 * 1.06 * 31 * 1.15 = 64279.089
Ruby crit = 64279.1 * 6.5 = 417814.0785
Ruby average = ((64279.089 * 0.15) + (417814.0785 * 0.85)) = 364783.830075

Eme normal = 1476 * 1.06 * 31 * 1.15 = 55776.564
Eme crit = 55776.564 * 7.6 = 423901.8864
Eme average = (55776.564 * 0.15) + (423901.8864 * 0.85) = 368683.08804

The above calculation is for the best possibly rolled Skorn.

----

Now my current set-up. 2725 str, 78% crit chance, +443% crit damage, 5% SoJ

min weapon damage = (507 + 266 + 150) * 1.45 = 1338.35
max weapon damage = (507 + 266 + 1 + 257 + 150) * 1.45 = 1712.45
average weapon damage = 1525.4 with ruby (1307.9 without)

Ruby average = (1525.4 * 1.05 * 28.25 * 1.15 * 0.22) + (1525.4 * 1.05 * 28.25 * 1.15 * 5.43 * 0.78)
Ruby average = 231833.42
Eme average = 237056.92

Emerald is currently better for me, but it´s very very close.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 3/6/2013 3:15 AM PST
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