Diablo® III

10 APOC vs 20 APOC, THAT is the question?

So what is the consensus in 1.07?
More people are stacking up dps and less armor, less ar.

and now some of us are saying 10 APOC which can give us more flexibility in terms of pushing our dps to in 300k dps range. Non-apoc chanto force is readily available at more reasonable cost.

Some say 10 apoc is enough. However, Boozor (speaking for him if he doesn't mind) and I don't think so. I know I have tried 10 APOC in 1.06 and it was not enough.

What makes 1.07 any different than 1.06 except they nerfed reflex damage for us to use less APOC?

It's not about whether the game is easy or not. It's about efficiency and balance.
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I don't feel 10 is enough. That's what I have right now until I get a chanto force with apoc and it seems to stutter once in awhile. My CC is in the 40's.
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If you're at 50+ CC, 10 APOC is absolutely the way to go. If the windup feels a little slow, use the Conduit rune from Force Weapon.

Just be aware that there is a big difference between 9, 10, and 11 APOC.

Edit: pre-1.07 experience is really misleading. I tried 15 APOC in 1.06 (with 3.01 APS) and it was a disaster.
Edited by Ossian#1946 on 2/25/2013 7:00 AM PST
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you are saying that 1 apoc from 9, 10, 11 makes a big difference?
it's really hard to accept the fact that 1 apoc can make a significant difference.

and you are saying that as long as you have greater than 50cc, then 10 apoc (and NOT 9 apoc) is more than enough?

so for us like Mempo user, it's absolute must that we get 10 apoc chantodo will (that means the price will go up for those if that's the case).

I don't know...I do remember having 60+cc with about 17 apoc and I thought it was not enough in 1.06...
Edited by yodatoy#1838 on 2/25/2013 7:05 AM PST
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02/25/2013 06:52 AMPosted by yodatoy
Non-apoc chanto force is readily available at more reasonable cost.


Thanks to Boozor and yourself for letting us know all about this.
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Rumor has it that the APOC proc of wicked winds has mysteriously doubled with 107. However, whether it is an intended change or something with hotfix potential needs to be clarified.

I don't know whether somebody has brought this up to the Blues.

For now, I will stick with my APOC source (anyway, my wand is 9 APOC, so not gonna be enough).
When I used to play DH, blz called TOC a bug, even though they announce the TOC feature as previous patch note. That experience hurts so much that I would rather play it safe.
Edited by Neuron#1807 on 2/25/2013 7:07 AM PST
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Hotfix is coming out on Tue. May be it's better to wait until after Tue...
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you are saying that 1 apoc from 9, 10, 11 makes a big difference?it's really hard to accept the fact that 1 apoc can make a significant difference.


Think of it this way:
9 to 10 is an 11 percent increase.
10 to 11 is a 10 percent increase.
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Given the gear I had in stash, 10 APOC let me do this (roughly, from memory)

+10K DPS
+150 RA
+64% XP (effectively +20% at MP6)
-4K health
-100 armor

I'm not selling my old setup though.
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02/25/2013 07:07 AMPosted by yodatoy
Hotfix is coming out on Tue. May be it's better to wait until after Tue...


Not to put tin foil hat on, I seriously doubt that bliz is aware of such changes yet.

So even if bliz is gonna "fix" it, it might well survive till next hotfix or patch.

I would say enjoy if you have it now, but invest with precautions.
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02/25/2013 07:07 AMPosted by yodatoy
Hotfix is coming out on Tue. May be it's better to wait until after Tue...


I guess we better wait, since you all worked it out so quickly straight after 1.0.7 came out.
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I know I have tried 10 APOC in 1.06 and it was not enough.


It's an undocumented change, you can say it's SC v 2.0. Even 16 APoC in 1.06 can't catch up to 9 APoC in 1.07.
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WHY DON'T YOU TRY AND TELL US WHAT HAPPENS PUNK
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02/25/2013 06:52 AMPosted by yodatoy
What makes 1.07 any different than 1.06 except they nerfed reflex damage for us to use less APOC?


Try it, it's improved. We don't know why but it obviously has. Anything more than a single target is almost insta fill for me on arcane so for someone w/o my ET CC values they'd probably be at the decent mark on an actual elite pack (3) and overflow if elites+trash (5+, especially running DF).

That being said and I'll say it again, I'm not going 10, nor 20. 15 as planned for months now. If they fix this, I'll be okay (8.25-8.5). if they don't I'll be completely optimal (10+)
Edited by MasterJay#1651 on 2/25/2013 8:47 AM PST
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I'm a bit confused, what's this "hotfix" supposed to address? I mean, what does it do, and what will do after this supposed "hotfix"?
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Who knows, but I know that SC survived for the whole 1.04 period.
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I wouldn't be surprised if they do not hotfix it, they stated they wanted wizards to regenerate arcane easier however when they say 'wizards' they likely meant ranged and not us CM's lol so maybe yah hotfix coming.

02/25/2013 08:46 AMPosted by HotStuff2
I'm a bit confused, what's this "hotfix" supposed to address? I mean, what does it do, and what will do after this supposed "hotfix"?


We're regenerating too much arcane, making anything above 18 apoc @ 60% CC a waste. Probably something along the lines of 15 apoc + on 70% (ET CC) and 12 apoc @ 80% ET CC wasteful as well. These are all singles estimate numbers...
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I would just say enjoy the extra arcane, enjoy the added performance vs singles and ranged and don't be selling your gear and downgrading about it cuz you'll likely regret it without hearing anything official about it.

I'm just going to delay my apoc chants now in favor of the other equipment I need
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I doubt it's big enough an issue for them to hot fix
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02/25/2013 09:08 AMPosted by JellzRoc
I doubt it's big enough an issue for them to hot fix


Yep it doesn't affect our choice of Pants, I say no big deal.
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