Diablo® III

AH Bidding Problem

i bought out two items but it did not appear in completed page what should i do? it has been two days days but the items had yet to appear? :(
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But then some people were *given* license to print money....I'm still curious how you successfully bid against them?


this is totally off-topic. of course you will never win against someone willing to pay 1b for an item worth 100m to you.

What this thread is trying to say is that if you are willing to pay 1.01b, you will win, even against a "person who has printed money"

o/
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Cool thanks I'll be willing to bid again now!
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Posts: 206
How is this correct?
How could they (fake bidders) stop 'when max bid is found' WITHOUT risking exceeding it?
Fake bidders did not know what was the real bidder's max bid was.
Unless there is something I am missing... (plz let me know)
To me they just risk to outbid the real bidder, keeping the item for themselves with the 15% fee (in their face!)

I find it very bad seeing someone winning an auction at the price I was the first willing to pay for. (Since today when person2 takes the action to outbid person1, ownership of person1 max bid becomes person2's bid, with the exact same amount)

Of course, I encourage fighting against collusion, but there must be a better option than getting MY max bid 'stolen'


Your misunderstanding must have to do with your age... I have a feeling you are kind of young and not quite understanding this.

For example... if an item has the "Current Bid = 500"... then you come along and bid "700"... it says you are not winning but the bid is "700" now. This means the other person has already bid MORE than 700. He may have bid 800... or 900... you won't know and that's the point. He is winning the auction at 700, the same price you bid... but he already bid a higher max bid. He already said he was willing to pay more for that item before you did. Say his max bid was 1000... well you come along and bid 700 right? Well the other guy already said he would pay 1000. In auctions its about the FIRST person to bid an amount. So technically you came and bid 700... but you werent the FIRST person to bid 700... you were the second.

Before, there was a way to bid a little bit each time... it would say "you are not winning" or whatever because you didn't bid high enough to pass the other persons max bid... but once you got to the other person's max bid... and you still weren't winning... you could tell. So the person would stop bidding. And all they did was drive the price up for the other buyer. Ebay has the same type of bidding system and has to battle the same types of fraudulent bids.


Thanks for your reply here.
I understand your example, this makes sense and everyone would agree (I hope so!)

However, one part you are missing.
Say I put an item up for sale with minimum at 5000. Person1 bids 12345 and is now winning, yes person1 is the 1st bidder. Item is still listed at 5000, so far so good. Now person2 comes in and bids 23456. Items is now listing at 12345 with person2 winning. This is where the problem is. 12345 is the price person1 was the first willing to pay. So essentially, person2 now has stolen person1 max bid.

I believe person2 should be winning with (12345 + 5%)

By the way, I'm 35 ;)

03/02/2013 10:22 AMPosted by DashLektrik
How could they (fake bidders) stop 'when max bid is found' WITHOUT risking exceeding it?


Since the system has now changed, as discussed in this thread, and thus there's no risk of it being exploited anymore:

Shill bids minimum allowed bid. If current bid increases by 5%, there's still headroom, keeps bidding. Once the current bid increases by less than 5% is when they've caused the bidder to hit their max, so stop bidding against them.

So there was risk with the initial scouting bid, but that's when the price was low to begin with. Any time after that, there was no risk of accidentally exceeding the max bid, because the shill knew what the next minimum bid should be by the formula.

As for the other argument...[...]


Voilà
I now understand the safe fake bidding...
You said it, THIS is the whole issue, nothing else:
"Once the current bid increases by less than 5% is when they've caused the bidder to hit their max, so stop bidding against them."
I believe the right way to fix this whole thing is to ALWAYS display bid increase with the 5% regardless of if/what people have bid already. Only show with 5% increment and only allow bids with 5% increments (obviously except the very 1st bid on an item).
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But then some people were *given* license to print money....I'm still curious how you successfully bid against them?


this is totally off-topic. of course you will never win against someone willing to pay 1b for an item worth 100m to you.

What this thread is trying to say is that if you are willing to pay 1.01b, you will win, even against a "person who has printed money"

o/


This for me is the problem - the assumption that everyone plays by the same rules.
I for example bid 5x of the item's current value, one minute before close.

That's 500m bid for a 100m item.
Worst case, the price goes up 3x but very rarely.

It's a strategy and I'm not surprised anymore that I still lose frequently.
Someone is doing the same strategy but can afford a higher premium.

So it shouldn't suprise anyone that they were 'sniped'.

But we don't think that 500m is the fair market value. We're just betting that everyone else will bid with fair market value to their detriment....and this happens almost all the time.

Snipers (like myself) don't bet with current market price (+5%)...it's +500%

Yeah it benefits me but this is relative. Someone loses to me all the time, but I lose to someone a lot of times too. Goes to show how this kind of strategy is rampant.

People like to think that everyone bids fair market value...but that's so naive.

Unless this kind of price shading is penalized (via open-ascending bids with time extension), there's no point bidding anymore. Loot drops are already controlled by chance. And by the look of things, bidding also boils down to chance.
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Your misunderstanding must have to do with your age... I have a feeling you are kind of young and not quite understanding this.

For example... if an item has the "Current Bid = 500"... then you come along and bid "700"... it says you are not winning but the bid is "700" now. This means the other person has already bid MORE than 700. He may have bid 800... or 900... you won't know and that's the point. He is winning the auction at 700, the same price you bid... but he already bid a higher max bid. He already said he was willing to pay more for that item before you did. Say his max bid was 1000... well you come along and bid 700 right? Well the other guy already said he would pay 1000. In auctions its about the FIRST person to bid an amount. So technically you came and bid 700... but you werent the FIRST person to bid 700... you were the second.

Before, there was a way to bid a little bit each time... it would say "you are not winning" or whatever because you didn't bid high enough to pass the other persons max bid... but once you got to the other person's max bid... and you still weren't winning... you could tell. So the person would stop bidding. And all they did was drive the price up for the other buyer. Ebay has the same type of bidding system and has to battle the same types of fraudulent bids.


Thanks for your reply here.
I understand your example, this makes sense and everyone would agree (I hope so!)

However, one part you are missing.
Say I put an item up for sale with minimum at 5000. Person1 bids 12345 and is now winning, yes person1 is the 1st bidder. Item is still listed at 5000, so far so good. Now person2 comes in and bids 23456. Items is now listing at 12345 with person2 winning. This is where the problem is. 12345 is the price person1 was the first willing to pay. So essentially, person2 now has stolen person1 max bid.

I believe person2 should be winning with (12345 + 5%)

By the way, I'm 35 ;)



Since the system has now changed, as discussed in this thread, and thus there's no risk of it being exploited anymore:

Shill bids minimum allowed bid. If current bid increases by 5%, there's still headroom, keeps bidding. Once the current bid increases by less than 5% is when they've caused the bidder to hit their max, so stop bidding against them.

So there was risk with the initial scouting bid, but that's when the price was low to begin with. Any time after that, there was no risk of accidentally exceeding the max bid, because the shill knew what the next minimum bid should be by the formula.

As for the other argument...[...]


Voilà
I now understand the safe fake bidding...
You said it, THIS is the whole issue, nothing else:
"Once the current bid increases by less than 5% is when they've caused the bidder to hit their max, so stop bidding against them."
I believe the right way to fix this whole thing is to ALWAYS display bid increase with the 5% regardless of if/what people have bid already. Only show with 5% increment and only allow bids with 5% increments (obviously except the very 1st bid on an item).


And this is the reason why, as a buyer, you are really better off sniping down to the last minute.
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well a lot of people don't even have as many "friends" playing this game much less wanting to log in and put items in the AH. Don't care if someone already pointed this out, I may play the game in the future and have played in the past. But I have not wanted to log into this game or the forum game.
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Do people even still have bidding wars like the first few months after release? Is it worth listing stuff with no buyout and letting people bid it up? Im scared to list good items with no buyout in case theres hardly any players left and someone just snipes it for the minimum bid.
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Thanks for lurking Wyatt.
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100 Night Elf Druid
9560
Posts: 217
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It would be nice to have real time values updated in your current auction tab, but i agree with the system that is now in place. Thumbs up Blizzard :)
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90 Troll Mage
15895
Posts: 2,869
The only solution to this problem is to remove the AHs. All other avenues have been exhausted.
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