Diablo® III

The Salvation of Diablo 3: A Guide by Gosu

I would have been interested in reading the rest of this if you hadn't treated it like game design fanfiction.

When you begin to detail out all these incredibly specific details of how you would change the design, no matter how great they sound on paper they will fall apart one-by-one in trial and error testing.

I understand that you want the game to be better (as we all do), but the presentation is so excessive and self indulgent. I'm not sure how any of the devs could look at this seriously. If you really want to help, cut out all of that fat. Tackle concepts in a broader manner.

D3 needs some salvation for sure, but this aint it.


You're saying that you think solving Diablo 3's problems can only be accomplished by applying general ideas and designs to the game? You're saying that any idea with too much specificity is doomed to failure?

You've literally given zero actual reason as to why even one single idea of mine wouldn't work. Perhaps you are taking some of my suggestions in such a literal sense that you have assumed their actual implementation without any alterations? How can you possibly know for certain that something will not work when you don't even know the manner in which it is incorporated into the game.

I said at the beginning of my post that I didn't claim that all of my ideas were perfectly balanced number wise, fool-proof solutions, or even fully fleshed out. I never claimed that the exact implementation in the exact way that I wrote them would automatically work. Obviously a lot of tuning and a LOT of testing would be required...

You failed to provide me with even one reason as to why even one example of mine wouldn't work, though. Don't you want to get more specific? :)
Nice post. I'm sure there's very good ideas in there.
Well, as it appear, Diablo 3 will not change as much as you expect. It is allmost a final product now... maybe some improve on duels, or some new weapons... but that's all, until expansion. Patch 1.07 was great patch... don't expect too much for next, it will not be a "new" game.
Wow. Phenomenal post. I didn't read all of the post, just hit the highlights. Like the endless dungeon system and endless MP system.

I was kinda disappointed you didnt mention more (maybe I missed it, if I did I apologize) about class specific items. You hit on the prime system making itemization better, which to me sounds great. I'd also like to see those class specific items roll class specific stats. Getting a crossbow with a bonus to a witch doctor skill is depressing (yes, I actually found one...I thought, "Really?!").

I also will give you a +1 on the additional skill system you comprised. I'd only add, players get access to that tree upon reaching a certain level...i.e. Para 1.

Fantastic post! I was thinking about an endless dungeon type instance since d3 came out. Maybe a way to implement this type of dungeon would be to require the player to achieve a certain paragon level before being able to enter. In fact i think blizz could implement a variety of new dungeons or additional rewards for players who reach designated paragon levels.
+1

On a side note, thank you for not only showing a deficiency, but you provided alternatives which may help to alleviate the issue. I grow tired of reading all the complaints...and the scattered ideas of how to fix them.
For endless dungeons purpose, I don't think it is a good idea, because some players, like child or grand'pa will try to find end of this dungeons and will be crazy to find it, and second point, because it will just be boring after 10 minutes to be in the same dungeons that players will get out and will not try it again.
Edited by obiwan#2455 on 2/28/2013 1:02 PM PST
What is the point of you writing this up?

You realize people have !@#$%ed about the game already and wrote giant wall of texts that were just ignored.

What makes you think that your wall of text will change anything?

Waste of time bro, sorry.
Love the post! Hopefully now Blizzard will use this information to turn this turd of a game into something we can all enjoy. Even more hopefully is you didn't waste your breath. +1 keep it going strong! I'm still pissed off about brawling. Took them 8 months to release that complete turd. What boggled me was they took a Poll asking us what we wanted and from the top 3 (scoreboard, wager system, matchmaking/better means to find pvp'ers), then digitally slapped us all in the face and said our ideas didn't measure up. WTG Blizz. Listen to this guy, maybe fire Jay Wilson and give this guy a job. For now though, D3 is a turd. TURD
Read it all - lots and lots of amazing, creative ideas - mass respect.

Few things. I think you greatly underestimate the negative effect the GAH has on your average player, and I think you greatly overestimate the positive effect that your proposed itemization changes will have upon the GAH and its influence.

When I say "greatly", I really do mean "greatly". I'm happy to elaborate if you're unsure.


Perhaps you misunderstood my position regarding the GAH? I believe the GAH has an enormous negative effect on a large number of players, currently. However, I also believe that the GAH is not, in and of itself, responsible for this negativity.

The ONLY reason that players feel the need to incorporate the AH into their gameplay environment so often is faulty designing at the fundamental level of several of the gaming systems that the AH rests on.

The ONLY negative impact that AH can accomplish without any relation to those design flaws is the fact that an overly easy and systematic trading system in a game like Diablo 3 provides players with a clear path of least resistance that is almost impossible to avoid. So in one hand you have the system, in the other you have the foundations that greatly exacerbate the problem. This is why I said that I've never seen anyone who actually understands the true problem that the AH introduces into the game. It's very complex, intertwined and multifaceted and I think that most people see an obvious problem and assume that it comes from obvious places.
Amazing list Gosu, thank you for this. TONS of awesome ideas in here. I really hope a blue sees this and passes it along.

Thank you for your time and effort in making this. ^.^
Really no blue post? come on Blizz
I stoped reading after you wrote reduce level requierment, life after kill, health globe increase are useless affixes.

-So reduce lvl requierment are so improtant in Hc. (but i`m guessing you don`t play HC, because it`s to much chalenging).

-health globe increase is so op! try to put on your gear like 10 k extra health from globe. and you will see! each elite minions drops one at death! so after killing one, you get 10 k life! :)

-life after kill, is a fun affixe when used with reduce lvl requierment for lvling in hardcore mode as you kill realy fast alots of toon, since your damage is super high. so life after kill wil give you more life regen then any other. but i guess you don't like the chalenge of HC...


I strongly recommend that you continue reading.

I'm sorry, friend, but I don't think that this game should suffer poor design choices because HC players like some of those choices. You are right, I don't play Hardcore. It's not because I don't enjoy the challenge, it's because I don't enjoy having all of my work taken away from me because of a lag spike, my PC crashing, a power loss, or a great number of other things that are out of my control. That's just not my idea of fun and it never will be.

Also, I never said that those affixes needed to be removed entirely. I said that they have no place on top tier'd items. Reduce level requirement could EASILY be utilized in some sort of game system that allows your lower level players to use higher lvl gear. It should absolutely NOT be taking up one of our HIGHLY valued affix slots. Item affixes need to focus on the way you play the game and ONLY the way you play the game.

As for increasing the HP restored on health globes/potions, this affix is only terrible due to the nature in which damage is received in this game. As I said in my post, damage is very spikey and inconsistent for the most part. You lose most of your HP and then refill it entirely multiple times per second in some cases. This kind of gameplay does not facilitate much value for an item affix that affects such a small fraction of the time you spend playing the game, on top of the fact that it is very difficult to receive full, if even half of the actual benefit the affix offers (due to it depending entirely on your HP pool).

Also, your understanding of life on kill is not correct. Life regen, life on it and lifesteal are all infinitely superior to life after kill when leveling up. I'm not even going to go into explanations as to why because it is so obvious.
02/26/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Gosu
(how about a demon that summons pulsating orbs that explode into zig-zagging rays of instant death that must be avoided if you don’t kill the orb before it goes off).


It reminds me Luke Skywalker´s training orb : )
Very cool and i would like to see it in the game too.
I agree with almost all that you have stated, I don't think they will accept the skill tree though as its not "Welcoming enough" and apparently thats not what they want to do. If it was less a tree they might do it.

I do think that crafting and itemization needs a rehaul, its why I haven't played in so long. Perhaps if we can keep this post on the front page long enough by keeping it active it will get the notice it needs.
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Nice topic

+1
Honestly I'd be surprised if you got a blue reply. I mean it's pretty embarrassing how awesome your post is vs the state of the game.


Well, let's not get into that ;p ( we're not increasing the chance of them responding but its not like its a huge chance, right? )...
First, I'd like to say that Ive been browsing through and reading the us forums from time to time, but not really commenting (ue myself), although this post has almost *made* me to.

So the ideas you outlined are mostly interesting and undoubtedly worth looking at and most of them are great foundations for the further changes, I think.
My little(*glares at OP*) input:
Some seem a bit exaggerated, like some of the ideas for wizard, which is my main. They are too powerful even at first glance, once something like that wouldve been incorporated into the game, people wouldve started working out the synergies and the insane potential for them is a nice idea, nonetheless it would quickly create couple of 'exploit' ideas I guess.
However, I understand that these are just foundations and it might actually work out, at least to a degree, in conjunction with the other changes, like multiplayer ones.
I think, for example Meteors, they can be playable with efficiency and fun even now, its just that the itemization makes it so plain and looong to build for them, just stacking *lots* of *needed* stats, as you've mentioned; as well as the build being somewhat inferior to the unquestionable top2 ( for sure the most popular ) - CM/sns and archon.

I was starting to lose hope that something that meaningful will appear as,i mean, lets be honest, there is ( oops, was ! ) not that much of constructive feedback around on your forums, was there?
Don't get me wrong, maybe Ive just seen the "trolly" side.
I do also am afraid, though, that this will be simply ignored, as we've just seen too much of such Blizz team behaviour on the forums, but the net certainly doesnt forget, so I assume this will be reposted once, twice and maybe more... maybe elsewhere, but it WILL BE! Long live the Revolution ! Oh, wait, i got carried away...
I agree with alot of what the OP says, but i disagree about some of what he calls "useless" affixes. Like Freeze on hit, or blind on hit, ect.. I find alot of those, epecially freeze on hit to be very useful, and can even be built around with proper imagination.. My Monk has a high freeze on hit rate, and with his high attack speed, i rarly have to use much defense, i freeze pretty much every other attack, and also allows me to take on more monsters at once than i probably normally would be able to..

Some may call that being too easy.. I call it smart character building..


Your Monk is able to take advantage of freeze on hit because he is using an Azurewrath. Azurewrath is a good example of what legendary items should look like EXCEPT that it literally only serves one purpose. If the damage on it wasn't restricted so much and it could roll OTHER useful stats then I would consider it worth of the Legendary title.

Also, I didn't say that freeze on hit, in essence, was bad. I sad that it's too similar to it's counterpart - stun on hit. What is the point of having blind, freeze, stun, knockback, chill and slow when they all accomplish almost the exact same thing? 3 of them render the enemy "stunned", while the others serve to keep distance between you and your attackers more often and for longer periods of time. Why are 6 affixes needed to accomplish these 2 things?
I stopped reading when you claimed people have to rely on the auction house for upgrades. If you can't pass that aspect of critical thinking, then I have low hopes for the rest of the post.

But naturally, the community likes it!


I didn't say that people HAVE to rely on the auction house. I beat Diablo on vanilla Inferno less than 2 weeks after release with ZERO purchased gear.

I said that the design choices of this game make players FEEL forced into using the AH. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone. No one is going to feel forced into using ANYTHING if they are presented with fun and varied choices. I strongly recommend that you continue reading instead of writing me off due to a non-existent disagreement.

Frankly I'm astonished that you decided so quickly and easily that what I had to say was just not worthy of your extremely valuable time. It seems to me that you're more interested in taking an arbitrary stand against falsely recognized and personally conceived ignorance than you are in possibly learning something new and potentially reading something that you enjoy.
02/28/2013 11:08 AMPosted by Zaxxon23
what he means is that the game nudges you towards using the Ah and while it is possible to upgrade without it, it is easier to do so with the AH. Once you start depending on the AH, it gets increasingly harder to find upgrades without it.


The game is a trade game. You aren't supposed to find all your own items. You are SUPPOSED to trade! Since the auction house is trading, of course most people will gravitate to using the auction house. And of course it is increasingly harder to find upgrades when you make the choice to trade.

This isn't a problem. This is the way Diablo games work lol.

The problem is people expecting to self-find their way to top gear in a Diablo game. There is no way to satisfy them without destroying the trading foundation of a Diablo game.

I absolutely cannot be bothered to read anymore from a person who doesn't understand this most basic premise. Their credibility is completely and utterly shot.


lmao

Exactly how far did you read? I said that the problems with the AH are not in and of itself. I FULLY agree that trading is a GOOD thing. The AH makes a GOOD thing become an EASIER thing. I don't have a problem with the AH in essence. Seriously, get off your high horse and continue reading.
I just read every word of section one and I want to let you know that your hard work is not going unnoticed. I am reading everything in this post and I hope the developers do, too. Very well done, great suggestions so far.

Your post is painting a picture of a game that I would love to burn away hours playing.
Keep the word spreading and light a fire under the devs to react to these great ideas. Keep it going!
What is the point of you writing this up?

You realize people have !@#$%ed about the game already and wrote giant wall of texts that were just ignored.

What makes you think that your wall of text will change anything?

Waste of time bro, sorry.


+1
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